HIV/AIDS; why spend so much money on this?

[MrVicchio]

Before anyone screams "heartless! Asshole!" or anything like that hear me out.

Where is money most spent on HIV/AIDS? You can do the research yourself but according to everything I have read, most of it goes into treatment and finding a cure. Most, while some is spent on prevention, it's not nearly as prominant in the HIV/AIDS movement. Prevention is moslty finding way to get clean needles to druggies and condoms to anyone that wants one.

Yet the desiease spreads. People die. Litterally Billions of dollars is spent to treat the afflicted, and every claim of a cure or possible vaccine is jumped on. I actually feel that a vaccine is what is more realistic, no one has ever "cured" a virus after all.

HIV infection and death rates in the USA up to 2003 are about 900,000 people with some 1/4 unaware. Source (http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/h/hiv_aids/prevalence.htm)

On the other hand some asian and african countries are suffering infection rates up to 50% of the population in the extremes. This, is not a good thing and one must feel for these people. It's not a nice or pretty disease.

But here is the thing, HIV is the MOST PREVENTABLE DISEASE IN HISTORY.

You cannot get it from touching, hugging, being around or knowing someone with HIV/AIDS. You cannot get it from eating after them, or from sitting in the same theater, using the toilet after they do... it's transmission is in three ways, only one of which is there an unwitting victim innocent of any culpability in infection.

1. Sexual Contact. Oral, Anal or Vaginal. Doing so with someone infected by HIV, even with a condom on, is highly risky.

2. Intravenous Drug Use. Shoot up, pass the needle, and you are just asking for HIV or other blood borne viruses.

3. Blood Transfusion during surgery. This is the ONLY case where one is completely an innocent victim of unfortunante happanstance.

I think the biggest blame for HIV is the loss of those... moral standards the liberal/progressive establishment so hates. If one stays a virigin, marries and has a life long monogamous relationship, barring the highly unlikely event of tainted blood during surgery, you will NEVER be infected with HIV. Ever.

Doing drugs, always a bad thing, can lead you to do IV drugs, which in such case you are the victim not of chance, but of your own stupidity. Just like having sex with multiple partners... you have no one to blame but yourself.

Why I ask, is so much money, time and effort spent on passing out condoms, fresh clean needles... these only alliviate the underlying truth. The behavior of the individual is at fault. Promoting "safe sex" and "safe drug" use only increases the number of people NEEDLESSLY DYING. It's cruel, evil.. heartless to promote activities.

People need to realize, life sucks, and promoting, even when you mean well, activites that are proven dangerous, is just killing people. Free wheeling sex, drug use... should be condemned by all honest and caring people. It saves lives.

[JohnClark]

Well, for one, there are a boatload of people who are infected through no fault of their own (hospital workers, kids born to infected mothers, rape victims, transfussion cases (although that's quite rare, it wasn't in the past)). And for two, despite whatever we may think about the behaviors you described, people do still practice them, and so we can either choose to let them and those who were infected through bad luck die, or we can try and help them all.

[MrVicchio]

We can help them yes, but my main problem is all the money spent on "safe sex, safe drugs" is mis-spent, mis guided. The entire premis of such an approach kills people.

BTW the number of children born HIV postive is very very very low(in the USA) and hospital worker infection rates are as well.

Do you, by chance know how many people die of Malaria each year?

[JohnClark]

We can help them yes, but my main problem is all the money spent on "safe sex, safe drugs" is mis-spent, mis guided. The entire premis of such an approach kills people.

BTW the number of children born HIV postive is very very very low(in the USA) and hospital worker infection rates are as well.

Do you, by chance know how many people die of Malaria each year?

It is low in the US, as is hospital acquired, but nevertheless it still exists, and especially in other countries it exists a great deal. And you're right, there are plenty of diseases that are just as deadly, but drug companies don't stand to make any money off of malaria treatments since it's been all but erradicated in the developed world. On the other hand, there are quite a few AIDS patients who can afford to shell out for the meds that they make (or their insurance can), so that's where the money goes.

[MrVicchio]

It has made a huge comeback in third world countries, just so you know. I believe the number of Malaria deaths in the world is at:
Worldwide, an estimated 200 million to 300 million malaria infections occur each year, with 2 million to 3 million deaths. Most deaths are from infection with Plasmodium falciparum.
http://www.astdhpphe.org/infect/Malaria.html

Gee... 200-300 MILLION people infected yearly, 2-3 MILLION die a year... but we focus on HIV...

Look I don't mean to take away from the horror that is to be HIV infected, I just think far too much money, and attention is focused on a hugely preventable disease that really.. doesn't affect that many people world wide. There are far more deadly, and wide spread diseases out there... so why the 15 billion say, to Africa to treat a preventable disease??

[Spee]

While, yes. IN a perfect utopia that everyone agreed upon, and hads the same moral/personal perspective, this would be possible, it just isnt practical in the real world.

Media tries to be "edgy" to try and attract new customers. They do this through drugs, violence, and sex. Kids hear all the hype, and say "Hey, this'll be cool" and have sex. And, honestly, I can't blame them - Theres enormous sexual pressure on the young people of the US, and abroad to do this kind of thing to be cool. And, even if they deny doing to to gain status, the act itself is still pleaurable. Sex would probably not happen if it weren't fun to do.

Drugs, sex, video games, amovies - All are forms of escapism. And, since the real world is so deafeningly boring and bland, people tend to seek escapism when they can. It's inevitable, and, as such, the concerned wish for those of the populace who would engage in these acts do so safely.

I'm not exactly the biggest proponant of "Good, Christian Morals," but I do know that Human beings, as a race, are wired to get pleasure when they can. Most do this through the aforementioned activities.

So, unless you can rewire the human psyche in order to abstain from that which is pleasurable, people will continue to do drugs, engage in casual sex, and be as lewd, crude, and have the best time they can on this mortal coil. The only way to really prevent that, is incredibly severe social reprecussions (biblical stonings of adulterers, etc)

[MrVicchio]

You have a point, there is a huge sex driven culture, and it's that culture thats killing people.

Same with drugs.

Just because it is a challenge to change the culture, doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.

There will always be people that refuse to listen and stupid things, smoke, drink too much, have sex whenever and whereever with who ever, who will do drugs...

But society as a whole shouldn't accept such, shouldn't be accomadating to such, society should wake up and accept reality. Casual Sex Kills. Drugs Kill. Gloryfing either activity is unnacceptable. Spending billions to get people to use condoms doesn't solve anything, it just lets you feel like you are doing good without altering the central problem, same with giving away free clean needles.

And that, is my biggest problem with the whole freaking thing.

[JohnClark]

I can understand your point of view Vic, but it's sort of a genie out of the bottle kind of thing. The best quote i heard to some it up was from Dr. Jerry Hoffman on the emergency medical abstracts series, when they reviewed a paper that showed needle exchange programs reduced all manner of diseases among IV drug users. He said, "We have to accept the fact that there really are junkies, they really do shoot up, and once we acknowledge that we can do something about it."

[MrVicchio]

I understand they are there, but I think that these programs are kind of like giving up, and saying "well you're gonna do it, so here's some needles" I think that's the wrong answer. I think society needs to say, as a whole "Hey people will do drugs, but kids, doing drugs will kill you, here's the proof..." Or "High risk sex.. might feel good, might be fun, and we know some of you are gonna do it, but here's what happens to many who do make that choice..." [Flash video and pictures of people suffering HIV/AIDS and other STD'S] "We can provide you condoms, we'll show you how to use them.. you might get lucky and never get sick... but is it worth it?"

Be honest, don't accept such behavior, lay out the consequences. Kids aren't stupid, not all of them anyway, and that approach I think, would save lives. Which where I am comming from. Saving people from dying a slow, miserable and horrid death.

[EarlyDawn]

Regardless of the social circumstances surrounding the virus, it needs to be targetted for curing.

I've heard that it's protein coat could change to become airborn within 20 years.

[MrVicchio]

ED, humans have NEVER cured a virus, only created vaccines.

[EarlyDawn]

Which is a total sidestep of my point. Let's operate under the assumption that within 30 years, AIDS/HIV will become airborn.

What do you want to do? Spend money on prevention instead of a cure? It's already out there. You can't put the cat back in the bag. Cure or die.

[MrVicchio]

I would focus on a vaccine first, cure second. We CAN an HAVE vaccinated against other diseases, that would be the more intelligent option.

But I would like to see this info on HIV becomming airborne, I haven't heard that before and would like to know more.

[EarlyDawn]

It was quite some time ago. I don't have a source.

The fact remains. The virus is out there, and it will continue to spread. It it totally unrealistic to hope that we can isolate it to current carriers and hope it will burn out. A final solution must be found.

[Headrattle]

I think the biggest blame for HIV is the loss of those... moral standards the liberal/progressive establishment so hates. If one stays a virigin, marries and has a life long monogamous relationship, barring the highly unlikely event of tainted blood during surgery, you will NEVER be infected with HIV. Ever.

HAHAHAHAHA!

yeah because before AIDS there was no...
Syphilis (Treponema pallidum)
Gonorrhea (Neisseria gonorrhoeae)
Chlamydia infection (Chlamydia trachomatis)
Chancroid (Haemophilus ducreyi)
Donovanosis (Granuloma inguinale or Calymmatobacterium granulomatis)
Lymphogranuloma venereum /LGV
Non-gonococcal urethritis /NGU (Ureaplasma urealyticum or Mycoplasma hominis)
Herpes /HSV (Herpes simplex virus)
Human papillomavirus
Certain strains of HPV cause genital warts
Certain strains of HPV cause cervical dysplasias which can lead to cervical cancer
Cytomegalovirus
Hepatitis B
Hepatitis D
Molluscum contagiosum
Pubic lice (Phthirius pubis)
Scabies (Sarcoptes scabiei)
Amoebiasis (Entamoeba histolytica)
Giardiasis (Giardia lamblia)
Trichomoniasis (Trichomonas vaginalis)

People have sex. Deal with it. Pretending that Abstanence is the only real way to fight this is idiotic. You have to fight STDs on many fronts.

I think that you can teach Abstanence AND give out condoms. I believe that teaching children lies about sex is the worst way to teach children. Teaching children that they can get HIV though tears is stupid and unethical. You want to counteract your attempts to teach safe sex and abstanence? You teach lies.

So what you do is you teach the truth. You tell them the only real way to prevent AIDS is to not have sex. After that, is Condoms. The only real way to prevent AIDS is not to use drugs. And after that you help the people already addicted to drugs.

STDs and Drugs have been around for a very very long time. Pretending that they just need to accept your morals isn't the way to go about it because it has already failed.

[SandTrout]

Vic is right about Vaccination being the correct path, rather than cure. Vaccination prevents the spread of the Virus, and if a virus cannot spread, it dies off as the current victems die.

We didn't get rid of smallpox by cureing all the victems, with got rid of it by vacinating everyone against it. The same would aply here. If we can vaccinate most people against HIV, then it would cease to become a problem within a decade or so.

[JohnClark]

The big problem with HIV compard to other viruses is that there are already many strains of it, since it produce billions of virions every 6-8 hours.

[MrVicchio]

It had failed? Funny HR before the 60's the STD transmission rates were less then 2% of the population. Gee... amazing thing that.

Who said anything about teaching kids HIV can be transmitted by tears???

[Doppler]

I believe that at this point in the game the genie is out of the proverbial bottle. Vaccination is the route we are going to have to go.

Furthermore i believe if there was a device out there that allowed sex but 100% prevented the spread of viruses that Vic whould be against teaching about it in schools. I do believe he is somewhat tainted by his agenda. Nothing wrong with that exactly but it is something to consider.

Finnally:I believed a two prong approach, sex education including abstenenance as the only guarantee of non transmission as well as knowledge of whats out there might be the best goal. THere are already sex ed courses in place, now we just need to mold them to whats best able to do the job.

[DeepStrikeck]

Handing out condoms and needles is a perfect example of what is wrong with Democrats. They have good intentions with a lot of the stuff they do, (things like social security) but do it idiotically. They have the intention of helping, that is great! But they should put the money into researching a vaccination, not teaching kids how to use a condom and giving everyone free needles. They should show kids pictures or infected victims. And just scare the crap out of them so they don't have sex until they are married. As previously stated abstenance is the only route to an STD life (until you are married and are monogomus). The FCC should be more restrictive about the stuff that goes on TV. Shows like Friends, where having sex is the theme of every damn episode need to be taken off the air. We should be teaching kids how to take care of themsleves, not to sleep with every "hot" guy/girl they come across.

EDIT: Also, if one gets HIV from sex, drugs or other odd methods not including blood transfusion, medical staff or birth, it's their own damn fault. We shouldn't give them condoms and needles. Yea, I'm for helping them with counseling or even drugs to relieve pain. But we should pour our money into vaccination research instead of condom distribution.

[Headrattle]

Prove it. And while you are at it give me the percentage of people who have STDs today.

As for the tears bit…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26623-2004Dec1.html

Among the misconceptions cited by Waxman's investigators:
• A 43-day-old fetus is a "thinking person."
• HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, can be spread via sweat and tears.
• Condoms fail to prevent HIV transmission as often as 31 percent of the time in heterosexual intercourse.
One curriculum, called "Me, My World, My Future," teaches that women who have an abortion "are more prone to suicide" and that as many as 10 percent of them become sterile. This contradicts the 2001 edition of a standard obstetrics textbook that says fertility is not affected by elective abortion, the Waxman report said.

[MrVicchio]

# 384,906 people with AIDS in the US 2002 (CDC)
# 46% of cases occurred in white people in the US 2002 (CDC)
# 34% of cases occurred in black people in the US 2002 (CDC)
# 18% of cases occurred in Hispanic people in the US 2002 (CDC)
# Less than 1% of cases occurred in Asian and Pacific Islander people in the US 2002 (CDC)
# Less than 1% of cases occurred in American Indians and Alaska Natives in the US 2002 (CDC)
# 298,248 men with AIDS in the US 2002 (CDC)
# 87,764 women with AIDS in the US 2002 (CDC)
# 10 times higher rate among African Americans than whites in the USA for AIDS (CBCF Health Organisation, 2004)
# African American women account for 64% of cases of AIDS in the USA 2001 (CBCF Health Organisation, 2004)
# 35% of cases since the AIDS epidemic started occurred in African Americans USA (CBCF Health Organisation, 2004)
# 315,000 cases of AIDS occurred in African Americans since epidemic started in the USA (CBCF Health Organisation, 2004)
# 816,000 cases of AIDS reported since epidemic started in the USA 2001 (CBCF Health Organisation, 2004)
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/h/hiv_aids/prevalence.htm

[MrVicchio]

Almost 300k Males HIV positive, 90k female.

Gee I wonder why that is?

[Headrattle]

Some research about STDs.
http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats/slides/Syphilis.ppt[url]
Syphilis dropped from almost 600 thousand cases in 45 to less then ten thousand cases in 2003.

[url]http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats/slides/Gonorrhea.ppt
Gonorrhea has dropped from 500 cases per 100,000 in 75 to about 100 cases per 100,000 people in 2003.

In fact most diseases have dropped over the past 20 or so years.
http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats/slides/Adoles&YoungAdults.ppt

With the exceptions of Genetal Warts and Genetal Herpies.

Just some facts at-cha direct from the CDC.

[Headrattle]

More stuff!

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/graphics/images/L207/l207_2.gif
Shows AIDS on the decline.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/graphics/images/L207/l207_5.gif
Shows AIDS among GAYS and drug users on the decline. (Gee, I wonder why.)
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/graphics/images/L207/l207_6.gif
Just Gays? On the decline.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/graphics/images/L207/l207_8.gif
In general? On the decline (except in African Communities. I wonder why that is. Could it be lack of education? Or am I not being PC.)
All of that from the CDC.

My point is that you SHOULD teach Abstanence as the best protection against STDs. You should ALSO teach Condoms and other things. The thing you SHOULDN'T TEACH is lies.

[DeepStrikeck]

What lies are we spreading? That we shouldn't give druggies a way to get high? That we should teach our kids that abstenence until marriage is the right course?

[Headrattle]

Pay attention. The latest "sexual education" classes have been spreading lies.

For example,
Among the misconceptions cited by Waxman's investigators:
• A 43-day-old fetus is a "thinking person."
• HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, can be spread via sweat and tears.
• Condoms fail to prevent HIV transmission as often as 31 percent of the time in heterosexual intercourse.
One curriculum, called "Me, My World, My Future," teaches that women who have an abortion "are more prone to suicide" and that as many as 10 percent of them become sterile. This contradicts the 2001 edition of a standard obstetrics textbook that says fertility is not affected by elective abortion, the Waxman report said.

[DeepStrikeck]

I actually never heard any of those in my sex ed class (just three years ago). I heard the condom one only because they said it could break or fluids go around, but no percentage was given. So I don't see how these are spread. (or who spreads them) All I said is that we should tell kids not to have sex until they are married. It's worked for thousands of years.

[Headrattle]

It will always work. The problem is that people won't do it. They just won't. And they haven't for... thousands of years.

[Headrattle]

More interesting information.

According to this site http://www.teenpregnancy.org/works/default.asp Abstinence Education isn’t studied enough to show if they decrease teen pregnancies and the studies available aren’t very promising. The ones that had the most success are the ones that taught BOTH abstinence and contraception.

Also, according to this site Teen pregnancies are down as is Teen sex since 1990.

Also according to the site he number of teens who have had sex is down 14%. The number of teens with four or more partners is down 23%. And condom usage is UP 36%. Weird isn’t it?

In my opinion, while sexual education isn’t perfect. Teaching lies (like the latest federally funded Abstinence Only education programs have been shown to do) isn’t the way to go about it. The way to go about it is to teach Abstinence AND Educate on the use of Condoms. Something along the lines of “Abstinence Stops STDs 100% of the time, after that Condoms, which do so 90% of the time (or so.)” would work the best, and has been shown to be working.

[MrVicchio]

Oh don't go there HR. Yes there were some toads abusing the program and spreading BS. No one is denying that. I can dig up the same on the "condom" people.

I lived in a heavily baptist town called Cabot Arkansas my 9th grade year. More Churches per a square mile then ANYWHERE in the country. They had NO SEX ED programs, and anyone caught on campus with a condom was suspended. I was suspended 5 times with threat of expulsion for passing condoms out for free.

Why did I do that? My step mother is an ob-gyn nurse, at the time a Major USAF, and she was sick of seeing students from the HS in her office knocked up. Do you know that there were 58 drop outs my FIRST 6 WEEKS of class?

I am not against Sex Ed, okay? I think it's very useful, I just think that the CURRENT method and thinking is hosed. Really hosed. It's cultural I know, MTV VH1 Rap, movies, TV... it's deeply ingrained in the culture.

I am saying there is abetter way, and it starts with you and I making a difference, that's how the culture was changed in the 60's, it's time to reverse that hell unleashed by Kinsey and the radical 60's.

[Headrattle]

My point is that Sex Ed, while not perfect, is working and that the Abstinence only classes are doing more damage then good. Teen pregencies are down. Teens with STDs are down. AIDs cases are down. While we still have work to do, we still need to work on treatment because while it is 100% preventable, total abstinence for everybody isn't going to happen. Ever. It has never happened. It won't happen. What we need to teach is safe sex along with no sex. We need to give the kids the truth and tell them that they need to make their own choices. As long as they have knowlege most of them will make the right choice.

But not all of them. Many will slip through the cracks. Thus we still need to do research on AIDS just like we need to do on every other disease that kills.