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Elude
2011-02-26, 05:58 PM
I've seen a few people posting about what they would like to see as far as certs go in the next planetside in various threads about weapon balance ect. I think instead of scrambling these ideas in a number of different unrelated threads, they should be grouped into one.

I personally would like to see less maximum cert points or more expensive cert abilities. This would ultimately decrease individualism and force people to work more as a team, given that they wont be able to carry most of the cert abilities available when they reached the maximum battle rank.

Furthermore I would also like to see the maximum load-out of your equipment removed from being tied to the type of suit you're wearing, and instead be attached to a gear cert, where a player can carry some sort of backpack (which would actually be seen on your player ingame) or an extra weapon strapped over his shoulder for the cost of some cert points. If Rambo can carry two guns without his shirt on, so can you!

Lastly many certs should cancel out other certs, I'm not a 100 percent positive on this idea but it would work something like this. Someone certified in sniping should not also be able to be certified in being a medic, or someone certified in being a tank driver shouldn't also be able to be an advanced hacker.

Bags
2011-02-26, 06:46 PM
Put the cert limit to what it was at BR20.

CutterJohn
2011-02-26, 09:04 PM
I doubt I can convince people that the recert timers were quite silly, but I would like to see you be able to at least save them up. Each day you play you gain a recert point. Each time you recert, you lose a point.

Alternately, each time you recert, you lose BEP, with no timer on it.

All recert timers did was make you roll alts. If you want to make it so its not reactive, you can simply put a 30 minute wait before the cert changes occur.

DviddLeff
2011-02-27, 03:33 AM
In my upgrade project I reduce the maximum BR to 20, and put a maximum of 16 cert points available once you reach 20.

However I give out Rexo, pistols and MA rifles for free.

CutterJohn
2011-02-27, 07:07 AM
Odd idea...

Make the number of certs you can have flexible. You can cert extra, but you will gain penalties for each you go over, such as reduced BEP, spawn timers, vehicle timers, etc.

CJ likes soft caps.

Vancha
2011-02-27, 10:15 AM
I think most people here agree with you Elude. Whether the maximum certs available are 10 or 1000, the cert costs need to be such that people can't do too much.

I disagree with your last point though. I can understand restricting people to HA or AV, or one type of MAX...but sniping+medic or adv hack+vehicle seem like certs you'd want people to be able to take together. Why have an adv hacker be able to take vehicles and then be unable to drive them? I understand your reasoning behind the sniper+medical, but I prefer the idea of a self-healing nerf. If there's nowhere to switch loadouts, a medic is exactly the sort of role a sniper can turn to if the battle's moved inside.

Make the number of certs you can have flexible. You can cert extra, but you will gain penalties for each you go over, such as reduced BEP, spawn timers, vehicle timers, etc.
I can imagine that being a balancing nightmare, not to mention being a more complex system for newbies to learn for a game that's already considered to have a fairly steep learning curve.

Hamma
2011-02-27, 12:27 PM
Put the cert limit to what it was at BR20.

First time I've agreed with Bags. :p

Teek
2011-03-02, 02:44 PM
Here's a bit of a crazy idea.

How about we have both a cert system and a sort of class system? WAIT, HEAR ME OUT!

Alright, so the main method would be via the old cert system, max of 20 BR, and the old number of cert points. Nothing new here.

But where things start to get crazy is when we implement a secondary class-style system, where groups of certs are placed together thematically. So, for example, a hacker class would put your hacking certs along with an infiltrator suit, and maybe an implant or two. Weapon specialist would include heavy assault weapons, engineer is pretty self-explanatory, and so on. Since there are a lot of roles that you can have in the game, I would suggest either focusing on a few, highly specialized roles, or make players take a selection of classes from a larger list with more hybrid roles.

Now, having both your own cert tree and classes at the same time would break the point of the cert tree. Instead, you would have to chose between class-style or cert-style, with a cooldown of maybe a couple of hours between switches. I'm also thinking maybe having a level cut off where you stop having class-style available, given that you now have a lot of cert points.

The point of the class system would be to provide players with a chance to experience a broad range of roles quickly, without having to go through re-cert processes, but to also limit the experience. You won't get the customization of your own cert tree, where you could combine hacking with heavy armor or heavy weapons with vehicles. I'm thinking you also won't get access to all the benefits of certain gameplay styles (maybe not getting max engineering or hacking, limits on what weapons or vehicles you can get.)

I thought of this because, remembering back to when I played PS a while ago, I regret that I really didn't get to experience all the aspects of the game, like hacking or engineering.

Another thing that can come out of this is that players at low levels can experience a better range of the gameplay options, experimenting to see what they would like to focus on when they have their own cert tree. Finally, I like the general idea of classes, limiting capabilities of players but also giving them strengths, encouraging (read: forcing) a cooperative atmosphere.

I'd almost suggest a class style all around, but I know the cert system does mean a lot for people and all that.

Also, make more things commonly available, like medium assault or possibly rexo. Also, I've always thought that a disposable, dumb-fire av weapon like the decimator should be standard.

Bags
2011-03-02, 03:00 PM
First time I've agreed with Bags. :p

You always agree with me; you've just got a bad case of the denials.

Raymac
2011-03-02, 03:20 PM
I thought of this because, remembering back to when I played PS a while ago, I regret that I really didn't get to experience all the aspects of the game, like hacking or engineering.



You make a good point, but I'm a huge fan of the sort of "create your own class" system that's in PS now.

I think you can actually get the same effect in a different way though. Right now (unless they changed it which is highly possible) you can only remove 1 cert every 24 hours. I'd like to see it where you can do a full cert wipe every 24-48 hours. That way you can try out different roles without having to level up alts. Maybe make it cost BEP, or perhaps a microtransaction, or just make it free of any penalty.

brinkdadrink
2011-03-02, 03:41 PM
I recently started a new TR character and i forgot how much different it was starting with nothing. I only bring this up because when you have very little certs you are down to your basics. I cant even have med if i want rexo and HA.
Just by changing the BR back to 20 it will change everything in game. It will force more specialization because you cant have everything.
I dont like the class idea because it confines even more what you can do. If i want to be a medic and a tank driver i can. Who says i have to be engineer if i got a buddy gunning being the engineer.
The cert system as it is now is perfect except for 2 things:
Max certs should be 23 (dont care if its BR20 or BR100)
Changing certs out using BEP would be good

Miir
2011-03-02, 05:09 PM
In the current system you start having to make a choice in what you want to do. I like that.

But by the time you reach BR20+ you can pretty much be a jack of all trades or a one man army as was discussed in the other topic. I don't like that as much.

I think people should be able to make a couple choices. One with regards to the soldier side of the skill tree and one with the vehicle side.

Soldier side:

Assault/Medic/Engineer/Infiltration/Sniper

Vehicle side:

Air Support/Air Assault/Ground Support/Ground Assault.

In all cases your choices should not be permanent. It should be on a timer like it is currently. So if one night your outfit wants to do a reaver event and have everyone cert Air Assault then you can do it. The next day if your outfit is short medics then people can cert and adjust as needed.

EVILPIG
2011-03-02, 05:17 PM
Once again, cert points are not the problem. It's how some of the equipment functions. Fix the equipment to balance the game.

Change ReXO to have one Heavy/AV weapon slot and one rifle sized slot.

Change Agile to just one rifle slot.

Remove the self applications for Engy and Med and the game could remain virtually the same. You can only ever drive or fly one vehicle at a time.

I have also suggested before that you put MAXes at the end of an armor tree. Where you'd have to buy armor in this order Agile - ReXo - MAXes. Just as BFRs sit at the end of the Armored Assault tree.

brinkdadrink
2011-03-02, 05:40 PM
Change ReXO to have one Heavy/AV weapon slot and one rifle sized slot.

Your can still have AV in the backpack and quickly change it out as needed. If you can fix both problems then it will help. My solution is set the number of weapons you can carry per armor.

Remove the self applications for Engy and Med and the game could remain virtually the same.

Doing this would greatly change the game but i personally want this or atleast as discussed in other threads make it far less effective to heal yourself.

I would want on somethings a requirement to cert so if you want the really good AV you have to kill some vehicles with the decimater first. Or your adv med and you revive a certain number of people to be able to cert expert Med that lets you heal and revive people faster.

This type of stuff means you can be what you want but you have to prove you want it first and adds a little more goals to the game. You would still have to add a cert or 2 to get the equipment after you unlock it.

CutterJohn
2011-03-02, 07:16 PM
I have also suggested before that you put MAXes at the end of an armor tree. Where you'd have to buy armor in this order Agile - ReXo - MAXes. Just as BFRs sit at the end of the Armored Assault tree.

Will this mean they aren't gimped soldiers anymore and can equip anything and not have to beg for heals(unlike every single other armor and vehicle in the game that can self heal or get out and heal)?

Not big on trees/prereqs though. It forces you to take stuff that you may not want nor ever use to get something you do want. Cert cost should be balanced per individual item.

Tbh, I'd quite like it if many of those certs that had multiple weapons, vehicles, or abilities were split up, so that players can focus their character to be exactly the way they want it to be. Sure, offer the group selection as well, for a discount.

Examples..

ESAV - 2certs
Deci - 2certs
AV cert - 3 certs

Buggies - 1 cert
Harasser - 1 cert
SG - 2 certs
Assault buggies cert - 3 certs

Etc.

Also, Cert counts should be expanded by 5 or so(and cert costs by a roughly equivalent number), so that prices can be tuned better. This would allow you to offer things like the CE gizmos individually, since there is no fraction of a cert.

Obviously this would be more difficult to balance.. They would have to make sure each vehicle has a niche and that the price is warranted by its usefulness.


This type of stuff means you can be what you want but you have to prove you want it first and adds a little more goals to the game. You would still have to add a cert or 2 to get the equipment after you unlock it.

You picked the cert. That means you want it. BR and certs are the method of progression. There should not be any others based on amount of time you've spent playing or doing something.


Just by changing the BR back to 20 it will change everything in game. It will force more specialization because you cant have everything.

Just limiting how much people can carry while infantry will accomplish the same thing, as would not putting powerful abilities in a teeny little pistol slot. As well as making pistols actually viable and important to combat as backup weapons so the first thing you do isn't get rid of them.

Its not actually a big deal if people can swap roles frequently. Its just a problem when they can do it in, literally, seconds. A Rexo could..

Hack
install viruses
disable a vehicle
heal others
heal self
revive
heal self armor
heal others armor
scan for enemies
set off an emp
set off an OS

And.. Carry 2 Decis and a couple hundred rounds of ammo for his HA. Or fewer rounds and a medkit. Or.. whatever. Bottom line is the support tools were too small, and rexo had too much capacity. Even agile had too much.

If you rexo was as tight on space as standard or, dare i say it, infiltrator, some serious thought would have to go into what you bring, rather than just bringing everything.

Traak
2011-03-02, 07:39 PM
I don't mind the many certs available now. I wouldn't like to have to choose "Oh, I'm going the support route, so I can't have AAmax" sort of idea. That is like Canada and its rigid trades-caste system they are enforcing. I like being able to do lots of support, and also hop into an AAmax when our guys are getting Reaver and Mossie farmed. But, it's all support, to me, the whole Idea being giving us air, ground, and spawn superiority. I don't AAmax so much for the kills, but to push the enemy air far beyond range of our troops. I can't stand watching them hoverspam victim after victim.

I think the cert system is fine now, up to BR40, as having ALL certs is, to me, just too much uberness.