Our Lovely TSA strikes again

[Sgt Shultz]

The TSA is in the news again this time for frisking a 4 year old girl that was a deemed a threat to airport security.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134280/Weeping-year-old-girl-accused-carrying-GUN-TSA-officers-hugged-grandmother-passing-security.html

Its sad that to hear about this sort of thing you have to read British newspapers.

[Vash02]

A rule of thumb:
Dont trust a single word the daily fail says. They arent exactly known for their commitment to the truth if it gets in the way of a good story.

Cite the source when you can: https://www.facebook.com/notes/michelle-brademeyer/my-daughter-was-mistaken-for-a-terrorist/3717883791131

[Baneblade]

The TSA never should have existed.

[Vash02]

They take their commitment to not racially profile a bit too far at times lol.


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19337030.jpg

[WildGunsTomcat]

http://forthesakeofscience.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/seriously-meme.jpg?w=465

So a woman writes a facebook post about something that supposedly happened in Kansas...which is picked up by a UK news source....and you guys believe it?

I looked around and can't find anything about this incident on any other news source. CNN, MSNBC, FOX, BBC...Nothing.

If the TSA had made a little girl this hysterical that she's having night terrors...don't you think ANY news source along with the daily mall would have reported about it?

If someone can find another source I will gladly eat my hat.

EDIT: I am now eating my hat. Found it on FOX and MSNBC.

With that being said...I'm not entirely sure I believe this story 100%. I would need to see video footage of the security tapes...which they are apparently getting...they also include audio. I will reserve judgement until I see them.

Link to Fox News Story (http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/mom-tsa-treated-my-4-year-old-like-a-terrorist.html)

Link to MSNBC News Story (http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/24/11371144-tsa-pats-down-4-year-old-after-she-hugs-grandmother?lite)

[Vash02]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/parents-year-girl-pat-airport-procedures-changed/story?id=13363740
Well, here's one where they frisk a 6 year old.

The FB one has probably been embellished somewhat.

[WildGunsTomcat]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/parents-year-girl-pat-airport-procedures-changed/story?id=13363740
Well, here's one where they frisk a 6 year old.

The FB one has probably been embellished somewhat.

Yeah I edited my post. I found it.

But even the news posts on Fox and MSNBC are basically them cutting and pasting her facebook post and calling it "reporting"

I'm sure she's biased because it's her daughter, like I said I would need to see tapes.

[Vecha]

This shows how incompetent the TSA is.

I really don't know what the answer is.

MORE money?

Better training?

What?

[CutterJohn]

This shows how incompetent the TSA is.

I really don't know what the answer is.

MORE money?

Better training?

What?

Getting rid of it. It is pointless security theater. Before the TSA, and including the 9/11 hijackings(and including the people that died on the ground), airlines were one of the safest methods of transportation possible. They are ridiculously safe, because a tragedy is ridiculously bad press for the company operating the aircraft.

The *only* flaw 9/11 pointed out was the lack of a reinforced cockpit door.

Furthermore, flights will never be used as kamikaze craft ever again. It became an outdated tactic that very morning once people understood the stakes.


Crashes, hijackings, accidents, etc could increase tenfold, and flying would still be safer than car travel.

[p0intman]

The TSA never should have existed.

I love you in a completely non-gay manner.

[Vecha]

Crashes, hijackings, accidents, etc could increase tenfold, and flying would still be safer than car travel.


I don't know why, but I'd rather get in a car crash...

Maybe the free falling part freaks me out(even though it would be quicker than a car crash.)

Anywho...While I understand/respect your opinion...I really wish there was a way to make sure no one gets on a plane with a weapon. Guess that's a lofty goal?

Also...please tell me they have fixed the pilot doors?(Sad that I don't know this.)

[Firefly]

Also...please tell me they have fixed the pilot doors?(Sad that I don't know this.)
Yes. Pretty much every cockpit door is now the strongest part of the aircraft. They lock, they're incredibly strong, and in addition to this there have been dozens of incidents where passengers have royally fucked the shit out of anyone who acts inappropriately (sometimes going too far). TSA is basically irrelevant. TSA has failed a number of internal probes and they've also failed a number of non-probes which are merely public incidents that come to light after the fact. What, exactly, are they stopping? And who checks baggage handlers? I want to say nobody, really. Nothing more than a cursory background check. Sleeper agents aren't going to have real names or criminal records or flagged files. These idiots are worried about passengers because the 9/11 hijackers were passengers. They don't worry about anyone smuggling shit into an airplane like a bomb. They don't worry about a handler putting a gun on a plane for a totally innocuous terrorist to fish out of hiding.

The only real problem with planes is this: bombs or missiles. I'm fairly certain if I want to just Lockerbie a plane, I don't need a cockpit door or passenger cooperation, especially if I'm willing to die without doing anything more than screaming a last-minute battle cry and pressing a button quickly. Or if I live in a country with unsecured borders, simply parking my car somewhere, waiting until something lumbers into view, and firing a missile.

And finally: when I flew back from Iraq, with my unit, we all had guns. Lots of guns. Pistols, rifles, automatic weapons. Granted, none of the bolts were in the weapon - but they were in our cargo pocket. I got dinged by a security "expert" who said I couldn't take my nail clippers on the plane. He said it was a security risk and it was policy.

I gave him my clippers because I wanted to go home and because my first sergeant was staring at me like he was going to eat my face if I wised off to the guy. But think about how fucking stupid that is. Ever chew through someone's neck with a pair of cheap PX fingernail clippers? LOOK OUT, ACHMED HAS A HANG NAIL!

[Baneblade]

I love you in a completely non-gay manner.

Let's have non-gay sex!

I have a cousin who won't speak to me anymore, because she became a TSO and she had to give up defending the TSA around me, because she couldn't bring any points other than 'we just do what we are told'. It lose/lose for her.

[Vash02]

Sorry guys, its not that simple. You cant let people onto a plane without some screening. Rather than flying a plane into a building you will have a few thousand gallons of burning jet fuel and tons of wreckage raining down on New York.
They tried it in 2006 and people have been banned from bringing drinks onto a plane ever since.
Dont believe the depths these sort of people will drop to to kill people. They used a mentally retarded man to plant a bomb in a resturant in Britain. It wasnt the most effective strategy but dont doubt they will use a small children, disabled people and other vulnerable people to pass weapons and bomb parts through security.

[CutterJohn]

Anyone with a reasonable budget and 3 brain cells to rub together could bring a bomb on board an airplane, and they can do it with 100% success, and no policy for detecting it would ever, ever, ever be tolerated.

I'll make it easy on you. We all have assholes. Having roamed the internet for many years, I am quite aware of how... voluminous.. it is. You can apparently lodge things of incredible length and girth inside.

How long before a plane blows up from an assbomber? Its only a matter of time until they realize this. People have been smuggling drugs up there for years. It will work just as well with bombs. Sure it may be uncomfortable or even hurt, but these people are willing to kill themselves. This is a simple, low tech, and 100% effective solution available to nearly every single human being alive.

Your security theater, as such, is absolutely meaningless. It can not and will not go to the lengths necessary to assure safety. People will never tolerate cavity searches. They will never tolerate X-rays.


The actual truth is.. Planes don't get suicide bombed because very few people want to be suicide bombers. Hijackings we can guard against with simple metal detectors and strong doors, and passengers who will not tolerate misbehavior.

[Vash02]

Planes dont get suicide bombed via those methods because of defectors in the groups not because they are unwilling.

But just becuase they can do it doesent mean we should make it easier for any old tit with a gun or a bomb to do it aswell.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Baneblade]

Yes, we'd be much safer if we didn't screen people who get onto airplanes.

Who said anything about not screening?

[MBRicochet]

Given the nature of the cluster F*** that is a TSA security check point. I am more worried about some one getting getting to the first stage check point and detonating. More targets in the unsecured line then any single aircraft.

The damned checkpoint is a better target then the target it's supposed to protect.

Thankfully the intel community is on their job and have been able to preemptively stop most cells from doing their deeds.

Also thankfully people are aware and any plans that get passed the authorities gets nailed by citizens who blow the whistle on anything sketchy.


They must do random searches in order to prevent legal backlash.. random means random. They don't have a choice who they search. You get that funny notice on your ticket and they have no choice but to follow orders.

[Sgt Shultz]

http://news.yahoo.com/feds-crooked-tsa-screeners-arrested-drug-trafficking-scheme-194312884--abc-news-topstories.html

I just found today. The TSA might have a purpose but frankly its their execution that is the issue.

[CutterJohn]

Planes dont get suicide bombed via those methods because of defectors in the groups not because they are unwilling.

But just becuase they can do it doesent mean we should make it easier for any old tit with a gun or a bomb to do it aswell.

Your unwillingness to get your ass probed before you get on an airplane will kill people. 10,000 lives a year would be saved if the speed limit was 45.

We all trade lives for convenience.


you can always choose to not fly.

I'd like to choose to use an airline that doesn't have ridiculous rules put on it because the masses are really, really, bad at statistics.

Terrorists change flying from ultra super mega hyper safe to just sorta super mega duper safe.

If you are scared of terrorists, you should be rendered catatonic at the thought of climbing into a car, bicycle, or god forbid, a motorcycle.


Nobody is saying there shouldn't be reasonable precautions. The metal detectors we had in the 90s were fine. Zip through, maybe get a wand. Done.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Vash02]

Your unwillingness to get your ass probed before you get on an airplane will kill people. 10,000 lives a year would be saved if the speed limit was 45.

We all trade lives for convenience.
Getting pat down isnt that inconvenient, people are just insulted by the thought they look suspicous when really they have been randomly chosen.

Arse bombs haven't killed anyone yet, they arent a very good method because the human body is a very good shock absorber. The last one to try only managed to kill himself.

[Baneblade]

I would like airlines to have a hand in the security. TSA is a cost-saving measure though. If airlines had to do their own security flight costs would go up, but I expect bullshit would go way down.

People who want to fly safe would fly on airlines that had better security. Airlines would have personal incentive to take security seriously, and people would have a choice whether they got in the body scan line or the "sure, hop on!" line.

Logistically though it would create all sorts of chaos at the airport and you'd need to be scanned at the gate. It really isn't practical but it sure would be nice. In the absence of that I like that we err on the side of security.

Ideally security would be handled by the airport as part of its operations budget. But then you get different levels of airport security, so some regulation should be required. But the TSA itself is not doing the job, is costing way too much, and is trying to branch out into other non air travel areas. They are trying to make the 'Transportation' part of their name literal.

[CutterJohn]

In the absence of that I like that we err on the side of security.

We already were. As I said. Before the TSA and the body scanners and pat downs, and including everyone that died as a result of 9/11, airline travel was already ridiculously safe.

Cars, bikes, and motorcycles are all far more dangerous even without the threat of terrorism. If you think airlines needed to be made safer than they already were, you do not understand statistics, since by any measure they are safe even with minimal security. People have an irrational fear of terrorism fueled by the headline grabbing nature of the extremely rare incidents, even though you're dozens of times more likely to die on your commute to work.


There have been 75 hijackings since 1950, and several hundred million or perhaps even billions of flights. This is a figure so statistically insignificant as to be irrelevant for any rational discussion. There have probably been more hijacking movies than actual hijackings. Yes, that security exists has prevented an unknowable number of them. But the security they adopted in response was the reasonable, fast, effective, and non intrusive precaution of having metal detectors and xray machines to keep guns off of aircraft. After 9/11 they also added the reasonable and nonintrusive(and in hindsight incredibly obvious) policy of a heavily reinforced cockpit door.


There is no terrorist threat. There never has been. More people have been killed by stepladders than by terrorists in this country.

[p0intman]

http://gawker.com/5905172/aggressive-tsa-pat+down-of-7+year+old-with-cerebral-palsy-forces-family-to-miss-flight
http://gawker.com/tsa/
How far are we willing to allow civil liberties to be ignored and trampled on? The TSA are no better and no more effective than anything else prior to it.

[Baneblade]

We already were. As I said. Before the TSA and the body scanners and pat downs, and including everyone that died as a result of 9/11, airline travel was already ridiculously safe.

Cars, bikes, and motorcycles are all far more dangerous even without the threat of terrorism. If you think airlines needed to be made safer than they already were, you do not understand statistics, since by any measure they are safe even with minimal security. People have an irrational fear of terrorism fueled by the headline grabbing nature of the extremely rare incidents, even though you're dozens of times more likely to die on your commute to work.


I would, without worry, climb on to an airplane with absolutely NO security, because there is no risk to it. There have been 75 hijackings since 1950, and several hundred million or perhaps even billions of flights. This is a figure so statistically insignificant as to be irrelevant for any rational discussion. Yes, security prevented many hijackings, and they responded to those with the reasonable, fast, effective, and non intrusive precaution of having metal detectors and xray machines.

There is no terrorist threat.

Exactly.

[Sgt Shultz]

Given the nature of the cluster F*** that is a TSA security check point. I am more worried about some one getting getting to the first stage check point and detonating. More targets in the unsecured line then any single aircraft.

The damned checkpoint is a better target then the target it's supposed to protect.

Thankfully the intel community is on their job and have been able to preemptively stop most cells from doing their deeds.

While I agree with most of what you are saying it does highlight a couple of issues.

First, has the TSA foiled any would be terrorist? I hear of people on the aircraft stopping the shoe bomber, the underwear bomber, and a few other assorted clowns. But what about the TSA themselves?

Second the cluster that is the security checkpoint is indeed a soft target that has in most cases more people the the plan itself. The fact that the TSA has not recognized this and corrected it point to what a farce the TSA is currently.

Right now the TSA seems to more of a affirmative action program for dickheads.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Security for airlines is an important thing. As it is for schools, shopping malls, theme parks, office high-rises, downtown city centers, and so forth.

The execution of airline security is completely mismanaged and in need of a comprehensive overhaul. It needs to be there, but the current system is not working.

[Firefly]

I think the US should take a few pointers from the Israelis on airline security.

[Hamma]

I think the US should take a few pointers from the Israelis on airline security.

+1

[ItsTheSheppy]

I'm unfamiliar with Israeli airline security...

[Vash02]

I think the US should take a few pointers from the Israelis on airline security.

Ban anyone who speaks ill of Israel from even getting on a plane to Israel?

[Firefly]

Ban anyone who speaks ill of Israel from even getting on a plane to Israel?
Perhaps if you want me to take you seriously in this discussion, you should do your homework first. Get back to me when or if you do that.

[p0intman]

Perhaps if you want me to take you seriously in this discussion, you should do your homework first. Get back to me when or if you do that.


You know what racial profiling boils down to? Racism. I'd rather like to eradicate that within this country, but thanks.

I'm unfamiliar with Israeli airline security...

Among other things, extreme racial profiling (racism).

If you meet the criteria to be considered a member of a certain, specific ethnic group, you're turned away more or less even if completely innocent. That also applies even if you're not a member of said, specific enthic group. You just have to appear to be to the screening staff. So even user error is prone to causing problems.

and, if anyone is curious about what, certain specific ethnic group I'm talking about, take a look at who Israel is at war with.

[Figment]

Pft. You can do better than racial profiling for not putting them on aircraft. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment)

[Baneblade]

Pft. You can do better than racial profiling for not putting them on aircraft. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment)

Of course you can, but context is important too. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_Incident)

[Figment]

Of course you can, but context is important too. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_Incident)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Colepaugh

Shouldn't you have interned all other Americans under the same suspicions after a single incident?

I mean, just to be safe.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Among other things, extreme racial profiling (racism).

If you meet the criteria to be considered a member of a certain, specific ethnic group, you're turned away more or less even if completely innocent. That also applies even if you're not a member of said, specific enthic group. You just have to appear to be to the screening staff. So even user error is prone to causing problems.

and, if anyone is curious about what, certain specific ethnic group I'm talking about, take a look at who Israel is at war with.

Ah. Is that the case, firefly? Are you advocating that we simply not allow non-whites on planes? Please be specific.

[Vash02]

Perhaps if you want me to take you seriously in this discussion, you should do your homework first. Get back to me when or if you do that.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17720326

[Firefly]

You know what racial profiling boils down to? Racism. I'd rather like to eradicate that within this country, but thanks.
Let's be real, here. How many of the 9/11 hijackers were white? How many were black? How many were American? Who's consistently blown up or hijacked airplanes around the world since the 60s? You can sing us a big fucking song and dance about how we shouldn't profile Arabs or Middle Easterners, but that's fucking stupid. If the shoe fits, wear it. And you're fucking kidding yourself if you think the TSA doesn't racially profile. I can't even tell you the number of Arabs and Semitic-looking people that I've seen pulled off to the side.

After 9/11, everything sharp (including nail clippers and tweezers) was banned. Ever since the Shoe Bomber tried and failed to light his loafers on fire, airports require us to take off our shoes. Ever since the Underwear Bomber tried to light his drawers on fire, we've had porn scanners. British authorities rounded up terrorists who planned to bring liquid explosives on board, and we've all been prohibited from carrying shampoo and toothpaste through ever since. Yet nobody uses the same method twice. TSA doesn't screen like The Minority Report. They don't have a time machine. They screen based on what happened in the past.

I'd rather like to have an effective security agency within this country, but thanks. YOU can stand in front of a scanner and let the little guards laugh at your small pee-pee. YOU can have some fat old white guy stick a hand down your pants. YOU can have some fat old white guy stick his hand down your wife's pants. YOU can have some fat old black guy stick his hand down your toddler's pants. The last time I checked, women and little toddlers weren't bombing planes, weren't being used to smuggle bombs or guns, and they weren't hijacking planes.

That's when their fucking job actually works according to standard. Let's see... TSA's success rate versus Israel's success rate... when it comes to the safety of my family and my country, I think I'll take Israel, but thanks.

If you meet the criteria to be considered a member of a certain, specific ethnic group, you're turned away more or less even if completely innocent. That also applies even if you're not a member of said, specific enthic group. You just have to appear to be to the screening staff. So even user error is prone to causing problems.
I can see you have limited knowledge of how the procedures work. Is profiling part of it? Yes. Is it racial? Maybe if you're stupid enough to call it that. Is it error prone? That depends on whether you're an Israeli airplane that hasn't been hijacked or used as a terror weapon, or a guy trying to get on a plane.

Since you have virtually no idea what you're talking about, I'm going to help you out. I can only help you with the unclassified bits - rumour has it there are a number of classified aspects that nobody talks about. Let's start with the airport itself. Their airport perimeters are secure. Not like ours. Theirs are practically fortified. There are also unmanned remote-control vehicles patrolling the perimeter and they have armed interdiction teams if anyone smuggles anything through.

All cars are stopped for a security check by armed guards. Cameras scan license plates to match them with an international database of suspicious vehicles. There are over 700 cameras at any airport. And just in case anyone decides to get crazy like the dudes in Britain, Israeli airports are hardened against explosions right down to the glass and the trash cans.

Now on to the profiling. I'm curious what sort of ***-hating bullshit you've read that says Israel racially profiles. In case you hadn't noticed, Israel is full of people who generally look similar. Israeli Arabs usually zip through airline security. Even Palestinians zip through if they don't have trigger issues.

On the subject of trigger issues: ever been to Israel? My guess is no, otherwise you wouldn't be making stupid fucking statements about racial profiling. I'm a white Jewish American. My passport has a number of stamps that set off alarm bells (Kuwait, Saudi, Iraq, Pakistan). Their profile triggers include suspicious activity and passport stamps. Being Palestinian doesn't really have anything to do with it, unless you're a Palestinian associated with any of their unsavoury elements. And really, anyone who associates with known criminal elements is a flag.

I got dinged. I'll tell you how it went. A number of security people approached me. They started asking me rapid-fire questions. Why did I have such passport stamps? Recite back the info on my passport. What colour shirt am I wearing in my passport photo? Their questions, sometimes, aren't even predictable or relevant. They're designed that way because fake stories are usually going to collapse after surface examination. These are people who have this down to a psychological art. There are a number of ways to tell when someone is lying - facial ticks, and most importantly their own stupidity. Wanna know why OJ won? Because he didn't testify. Quickest way to fuck yourself is to run your mouth when you don't have everything squared away. Even I stumbled just a bit, and it wasn't until I showed my military ID that I was basically moved to the front of the line as a sort of apology for holding me up. Guess who made it ahead of me? Quite a number of Palestinians.

How many terror incidents have the Israelis had? A helluva lot fewer than ours. How many security failures have they had? A helluva lot fewer than ours. So do we want a system that is cumbersome and doesn't work? Or do we want one that works?

Next time, get your fucking facts straight, by the way.

[p0intman]

I'll grant you a few things, Firefly:

1) No, ive never been there.
2) I do however have family from Lebanon who have been there. My uncle was supposed to be on a plane the day before the conflict kicked off in 2006 that was to land in Israel. He wasn't on that plane because he got sick.
3) What little I know was from an on the spot google search and things my family has spoken about.

However, I'm not going to respond to your goading about anything ive read being '***-hating' because its absurd and although I can see your perspective, it can only really devolve from here. From my perspective, from what you've written, that more or less aligns to the kind of crap I'd like to get rid of. Its more likely that if you knew me, as a person, you'd call me an anarchist. I really don't see the massive security lockdown as anything but a violation of civil rights in the states here.

If it were my call, GWB would have been tried for treason and the TSA/DHS disbanded, but thats just my opinion. If we had that kind of a security lockdown here, there would be revolts. People are already offended and disgruntled as it is, I think it would be counter productive to go any further.

[CutterJohn]

Let's be real, here.

Yes, lets.

From 1995 to 2005.

Driving off the road: 254,419
Falling: 146,542
Accidental poisoning: 140,327
Dying from work: 59,730
Walking down the street: 52,000.
Accidentally drowning: 38,302
Killed by the flu: 19,415
Dying from a hernia: 16,742
Accidental firing of a gun: 8,536
Electrocution: 5,171
Being shot by law enforcement: 3,949
Terrorism: 3147
Carbon monoxide in products: 1,554


Right then. 3147 terrorism deaths in the US over a ten year period. 314 deaths per year(90% of that was 9/11, a major fluke). The DHSs budget in '13 will be $39 billion.

39 billion / 314 equals, drumroll, One hundred and twenty four million, two hundred and three thousand, eight hundred and twenty one dollars for each and every death caused by terrorists in this country.

Ridiculous. Preposterous. Ludicrous. Theres not enough 'ous words to describe that level of mental defect.

There is no terrorist risk. If you die to a terrorist you are a select member of an outlier group so phenomenally minuscule it actually has zero statistical value, and it is worthless to base any rational decision off of that because it simply will not happen. Ever. You have better odds of winning the lottery.

[Figment]

But the fear! The Terror!


Oh wait, wasn't that the thing the terrorists tried to create? :x

[CutterJohn]

But the fear! The Terror!


Oh wait, wasn't that the thing the terrorists tried to create? :x

They succeeded. :cry:


The strongest country in the world collectively Lost. Its. Shit. Because a handful of guys killed fewer people than die every year to falling down the stairs.

[Vash02]

Why are you dividing the money by their failures Cutter? Surely it should be divided by how many plots they have stopped?

[Baneblade]

What plots has the TSA stopped?

[Vash02]

What plots has the TSA stopped?

Sorry, cant tell you, state secrets act.


Another thing Bush and Obama have created and expanded.

[Baneblade]

That's just a catch all way to not have to say they haven't done a damn thing to justify their existence. I would bet the farm that if they ever manage to foil something, it will be all over the media like a viral video on social networking.

[Figment]

That's just a catch all way to not have to say they haven't done a damn thing to justify their existence. I would bet the farm that if they ever manage to foil something, it will be all over the media like a viral video on social networking.

South Park TSA Sheeit - YouTube

[Baneblade]

:lol:

[Traak]

Sorry guys, its not that simple. You cant let people onto a plane without some screening. Rather than flying a plane into a building you will have a few thousand gallons of burning jet fuel and tons of wreckage raining down on New York.
They tried it in 2006 and people have been banned from bringing drinks onto a plane ever since.
Dont believe the depths these sort of people will drop to to kill people. They used a mentally retarded man to plant a bomb in a resturant in Britain. It wasnt the most effective strategy but dont doubt they will use a small children, disabled people and other vulnerable people to pass weapons and bomb parts through security.

Actually, aren't flight crew allowed to bring drinks on board?

So, at least that narrows the field of potential drink-warriors to the flight attendants et al.

[Traak]

You know what racial profiling boils down to? Racism. I'd rather like to eradicate that within this country, but thanks.



Among other things, extreme racial profiling (racism).

If you meet the criteria to be considered a member of a certain, specific ethnic group, you're turned away more or less even if completely innocent. That also applies even if you're not a member of said, specific enthic group. You just have to appear to be to the screening staff. So even user error is prone to causing problems.

and, if anyone is curious about what, certain specific ethnic group I'm talking about, take a look at who Israel is at war with.

And how many El Al planes have been flown into buildings in the last 40 years?

[Baneblade]

And how many El Al planes have been flown into buildings in the last 40 years?

And how many Southwest Airlines planes have been flown into buildings in the last 40 years?

[Figment]

And how many El Al planes have been flown into buildings in the last 40 years?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Bijlmerramp2_without_link.jpg

Bijlmer disaster, at least 43 dead (it is very likely illegals lived in the flat that was hit). Though that wasn't on purpose and a cargo jet, just due to the engines simply literally falling off the aircraft. Pins keeping the engines attached to the airplane failed due to metal fatigue.

Bijlmer Crash october 4, 1992 - YouTube

Maybe they should have focused more on general maintenance and inspections of airworthiness than security...