Console FPS's - why?!

[Malachi]

This might not be the perfect place to discuss this, but I figured I'd at least be in friendly territory.

I'm just wondering how console FPS's have grown in popularity over the years. Have all of these people NEVER played an FPS with a keyboard+mouse?

There was a Dust 514 trailer in another thread and I was entertained/boggled by the obvious control difficulties/limitations the player was having - I had flashbacks to years and years ago playing some James Bond FPS with a console controller and I COULD NOT BELIEVE how clunky it was. I'm not even a huge FPS fan, but my gosh the console controller was truly painful to use. Obviously most players get used to it and do alright, but it still never even comes close to the level of control you get with a mouse+keyboard.

Are all these console players just jonesing for a good PC setup, but can't afford it? Or do they really prefer the console controller? Do console manufacturer's put an addictive chemical in their controllers?

[BigBossMonkey]

Consoles are cheap.

Consoles are easy to use.

Consoles are popular for those two reasons.

[Otleaz]

Before complaining about controls I would complain about consoles connection issues. One player "hosts" and everyone else connects to them so you end up with one player having 0 ping while the rest have 150-200.

Aside from that, I would probably say that it is a domino effect or crowd mentality. Watching paint dry could be fun if you are doing it with a friend. Everyone owns a console so it is easy to hook up and play with friends.

[Chinchy]

A Picture will do just fine before this thread gets closed.

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images/Staples-Easy-Button.jpg

[Colonel Carston]

Consoles are cheap.

Consoles are easy to use.

Consoles are popular for those two reasons.

This

When a decent gaming computer costs around 1,000 USD, and you can go to the store and pick up a console for 300 USD, there's a big difference. But we can always confide in the fact that our PCs can run our games a lot better than consoles can.

[Bags]

Consoles are cheap.

Consoles are easy to use.

Consoles are popular for those two reasons.

But a normal computer can become a gaming computer with a $200 video card, and most people need/have a $500 normal computer.

Maybe not optimal,but faster than a console.

[maradine]

Because they're fun, they're inexpensive, and they make many parts of the whole multiplayer experience automatic at best, and easy at worst. Is this surprising?

[2coolforu]

Ease of use, they don't have to install anything and there's no fiddling around.

I mean there are seriously people out there who can't create folders or cower at the thought of simple computing tasks. The kind of people who are like this are in the majority and will buy a console simply to have a nice package with directions on it.

[Shade Millith]

But a normal computer can become a gaming computer with a $200 video card, and most people need/have a $500 normal computer.

Maybe not optimal,but faster than a console.

Like he said. It's easier on the console.

It's the epitome of 'Plug and Play' simplicity.

Terrible control scheme, poorer graphics, less options. But it's easy.

[Malachi]

With the age of the average gamer going up every year (or at the very least being well into the 20s), I'm just surprised that a relatively small difference in price can make such a huge impact on the industry.


And I'm not even sure the "cheap" argument is as valid as it was 10 years ago.

I don't own a single console or a TV, but I do own a computer and I usually upgrade every 2-4 years. I get all my non-game entertainment through hulu and netflix (the wife and I have plenty to watch, and actually kinda like not having normal TV to watch).

If you add up the cost of a decent TV + sound system for it, plus the monthly TV bill, plus the console(s)... it can't be that much better than my computer + netflix costs.

Obviously lots of people wouldn't consider this an option - they'd want both the TV/console + the PC... but if someone is really trying to save $$, having just a PC is not a bad option.


edit: I guess the "easy" argument makes more sense.

[indirect]

Before complaining about controls I would complain about consoles connection issues. One player "hosts" and everyone else connects to them so you end up with one player having 0 ping while the rest have 150-200.

Not entirely true. BC2 and BF3 have EA hosted servers, etc etc other games do too.

[captainkapautz]

But a normal computer can become a gaming computer with a $200 video card, and most people need/have a $500 normal computer.

Maybe not optimal,but faster than a console.

Yeah, now.

Wasn't like that when the XBox360/PS3 first came out though.

[Dairian]

Everyone else just answered your question... They are just cheap and easy for everyone to have. That's what she said!

[Goku]

We have more than just PS2 discussion as forum FYI ;).

[Vash02]

Cloud gaming is going to kill consoles. Why buy a console when you can use your cruddy computer to play a game?

[Luieburger]

I had a long rant written up and it felt really good, but I decided to distill it down to a few basic points.


Most console gamers are casual gamers, and most casual gamers don't understand PC gaming. (Keyword "most")
FPS games are fun, so naturally people want to play them on whatever platform they have.
Console gamers don't care about the crumby controls because that's what they're used to.
Console gamers don't know any better. They grew up with clunky controls and mostly horrible games, how could we expect them to understand our world?


Was Goldeneye 64 an awesome game? HELL NO! Everybody just said it was awesome because they had never played Doom, Quake, Unreal, Half Life, mods for any of those games, etc... When Halo came out, it was "ooooohhh sooo awesome" but hardly anybody knew that the game was initially designed for the PC (Macintosh in fact).

All of the success that console FPS games enjoy can be traced back to one thing. PC FPS games. The controller doesn't matter except to those of us with refined tastes.

In closing...

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg121/scaled.php?server=121&filename=7pllylb8.jpg&res=landing

[Luieburger]

I don't own a single console or a TV, but I do own a computer and I usually upgrade every 2-4 years. I get all my non-game entertainment through hulu and netflix (the wife and I have plenty to watch, and actually kinda like not having normal TV to watch).

If you add up the cost of a decent TV + sound system for it, plus the monthly TV bill, plus the console(s)... it can't be that much better than my computer + netflix costs.

Yep. The fix for everyone is simple.


Ditch the cable box, DVD player, Blue Ray Player, Consoles, subscriptions, fees, etc...
Plug the PC into the TV/sound system
Set up a desk next to the couch or in front of the couch with a wireless keyboard and mouse
Profit

[maradine]

Was Goldeneye 64 an awesome game? HELL NO!

There's nothing I detest more than revisionist history.

"Console Action Game of the Year"
"Console Game of the Year"
"Interactive Title of the Year"
"Outstanding Achievement in Software Engineering"

GameRankings 95%
Metacritic 96%

Edge 9/10
Game Revolution A-
GameSpot 9.8/10
IGN 9.7/10
N64 Magazine 94%
Gaming Target 9.2/10
Gaming Age 9.1


There is literally no objective measure by which Goldeneye wasn't awesome. Subjectively, all you needed was a couch and 3 friends and all of a sudden a weekend melted away into a screaming, laughing fragfest. Maybe you just didn't have these experiences to share? If not, I feel genuinely sorry for you.

The problem with the "PC Gaming Master Race" is that it has no sense of perspective or humility. If I went onto auto enthusiast forums and talked down every mode of transportation that had a worse sprint to 60mph than my own, I'd be a run-of-the-mill douchebag. How members of the broader gaming community allow each other to denigrate half of the industry they allegedly love is just lost on me.

[exLupo]

Nothing in the PC world will trump the ease of consoles, I'm afraid. With the extension of consoles into the social and streaming media worlds, they're covering all of the mass market bases. I went over to someone's place yesterday and the only piece of hardware they had was a PS3 and, yet, were doing everything they wanted. TV, movies, gaming, and internet and all of it without having to worry about compatibility and drivers and component upgrades and the rest of the headaches that we, as PC owners, have come to understand.

Console gamers are like people who own cars but take them to the shop to get any work done, even little things like replacing wipers or refilling the radiator. PC gamers, at the very least, must get dirty from time to time.

As far as FPS goes, the above statements are correct. {rant}One thing I am tired of, however, is this myth that consoles don't support non-joypad inputs or that joypads somehow make people worse. The Wii and XBOX input schemes are wanting but they are trying and, with the splitfish stick+mouse, the XBOX is just as tight as kb+m. PS3 natively supports kb+m (discretion of the game dev to implement) and the Move wand gun, while gimmicky, is apparently pretty sweet as well. That and I've seen some videos of Halo players pulling off insane antics that I've never been able to do, reliably at least, even after twenty years of FPS gaming. Yes, kb+m takes less skill to get competent with but it's not the end-all, be-all of control schemes.{/rant}

Er.. but yea. Easy, cheap, popular.

[Meriv]

I think is just one word.

EASY-Friendlike

I mean is just plug and play, same reason why in the past a lot of technologies didnt got succesfull
Palm company that has even given the name to the technology went over just because "smartphones" were more friedlike
Same for Xerox the company almost didn't made it in the 80-90 because it wasn't easy to use.
Same with Beta and Vhs.
And everywhere right now companies are trying to get TV to connect and interact well with the internet for the same exact reason.
Or take apple for example it got 100% profit percentage over his hardware cost! But it is a lot more friendlike than other OS(thanks to apple consumer HP had to dump the market and i got my nice Hp touchpad wiith just 100$)for the ppl that can afform himself an Apple (think outside US pls).

The human history make all always go for a the easiest one (excluding a small percentage of the ppl) regardless of the tradeoff.

[JPalmer]

There is just something about the Xbox and being able to easily play with friends that does it for me. I can play Call of Duty or NHL all day with my buddies.

Everyone I know on my friend list on Live isn't retarded or casual gamers. They play a lot and own a lot of games. They know how to use a computer.

Thing is they are in a cycle. I can safely say when I was in grade school I got people hooked on consoles. I was one of the first gamers. It exploded in HS when CoD 4 came out. Everyone and there mother bought a 360. Why not a computer? Because everyone who already owned the game already had a 360 and everyone at my school wanted to play with me and those few others.

Now they mostly still play on the 360 and unless some miracle happens they will get in the same cycle with the 720 or whatever.

All Microsoft has to do is allow people to bring over their gamerscore and profile. Along with that launch a intriguing multiplayer game and boom it will start again.

Hell, why do you want them to get PCs anyways? The PC asshats hate new players.

[super pretendo]

Parents buy their 11 year olds Xbox's for christmas, not gaming computers.

[Warborn]

Console games make way more money than PC games, on average, because there are way more console gamers than PC gamers.

Console gamers who do not play FPS games on the PC will not realize how shitty playing a FPS with a gamepad is.

Dust 514 will be released with full USB keyboard and mouse support. It is built on the Unreal 3 Engine and their plan is to release with a quality of keyboard/mouse gameplay that will make PC gamers feel right at home.

[therandomone]

Everyone here already said the most obvious ones but I'll add my 2 cents. Personally, a mouse/keyboard combo will never sit as comfortably in my hands as a controller. I've grown up on consoles since the super Nintendo and eventually I got into computer games,but I think a lot of us also just grew up on consoles so we stick with what we know.

To whoever said Goldeneye wasn't a good game, you've officially lost your ability/right to judge a game because you clearly have no idea what makes it good.

[Mr DeCastellac]

Think of it this way.
The Xbox is a children's toy. Almost every game released on it is immature and stupid.
The Wii is primarily used by children or casual gamers, as evidenced by the games released for it.
The PS3 is essentially an Xbox, but catered to a more mature audience.

Computers, however, are there for serious gamers. Whether you build your own or make the mistake of buying a pre-setup one, it will always exceed a console. It's a little extra work (debugging/fixing broken parts), but for a much greater reward.
Better graphics, smoother running, being able to use a decent internet browser, easier to control, et cetera.

You are absolutely right, OP. Shooters should never ever be made for consoles. A mouse will always be easier to aim with than a joystick. That's the reason so many console games have a soft lock (auto-aim) on them. That should have been a hint to game developers before it went this far.

"We're getting a lot of complaints from game testers about how they can't aim with the joystick," says Game Dev 1.
"I know! Let's make it so that the game aims for them!" replies Game Dev 2.
This isn't right. It's too late, however, for them to stop making shooters on consoles. Which is too bad, because there have been some great shooters that were made console-exclusive.
Take Vanquish for example. Ever heard of it? Probably not. It's a fairly recent shooter with excellent slow-motion and great gunplay. But almost no one has heard of it because it was PS3-exclusive. I guarantee you that if it was released for PC, it would be a smash hit.

Anyways, my rant is over, so I'll leave you with a story.
My friend is a long-time console gamer, and I a long-time PC gamer. We were talking and I was trying to convince him that he should start playing games (or at least shooters) on the PC. He inquired as to why, so I told him about how the mouse is so much easier to aim with. He started being stubborn and saying that joysticks are so much easier to use and how he could never get used to the mouse, but I persisted. "Look," he said. "It's my opinion that joysticks are easier to use."
This really bugged me. I hate it when people pass off a fact as their opinion, so it must be right. In the words of Ben 'Yahtzee' Croshaw (Game reviewer): I know it's your opinion, but it's just wrong. It's like saying you like hearing someone singing completely out of tune or reading a book whose pages are covered in brown sauce.

The prologue is that he's still a dedicated console gamer. In fact, back in the day I had him play Planetside and he actually liked it a bit, and told me he wished it was on consoles. I'm hoping the epicness of Planetside 2 will be enough to convince him to get better at PC gaming.

[Knotz]

Honestly, playing on the 360 is much more comfortable... If I could play PS2 with a controller I would... But I guess I'll just have to get used to M&K

[ChipMHazard]

There is literally no objective measure by which Goldeneye wasn't awesome. Subjectively, all you needed was a couch and 3 friends and all of a sudden a weekend melted away into a screaming, laughing fragfest. Maybe you just didn't have these experiences to share? If not, I feel genuinely sorry for you.


Unless someone picks Oddjob:D

I agree with elfailo, it really does come down to keyboard and mouse offering better control and precision, atleast from my point of view.
That's not to say that console FPS' can't be great, which there are plenty of examples of.

[Mr DeCastellac]

Honestly, playing on the 360 is much more comfortable... If I could play PS2 with a controller I would... But I guess I'll just have to get used to M&K

They will probably have an option to plug in an Xbox controller. Most games do. You'll be way less accurate with your aiming, but if you like it better, so be it. :)

[Symmenix]

I hate how people call consoles "clunky"
I seriously don't see clunky on my ps3. (I do on xbox, sadly)

[AirFell]

The problem is always input. Analogue controller sticks work a lot better than digital ones, but it's never going to be able to match the speed and precision of a mouse, and thus a whole range of particularly faster, more aggressive games, become impossible on the platform. Epic tried it with UT3, but they ended up with a hollow shell of what UT used to be. After 2 years of patching it was still obvious that the game wasn't designed with mouse users in mind.

The mouse isn't optimal either by the way. It's still only 2 dimensions of input. There needs to be a 3-d input device that is affordable and as practical and sensitive as a mouse. The problem with current motion sensing tech is that there is no tangible feedback from it (besides the images on screen). A mouse is moved across a flat table/mousepad, and because of the friction that offers, you're able to control it - you can 'stop' it dead. That just can't happen when you're moving your hand through thin air, nobody has that kind of stability in their muscle control, not even the world's best mime.

Some company came up with this thing years ago:
http://gopaultech.com/files/2007/10/novint-falcon.jpg

People are trying, but I don't see this thing in particular working. It looks weak and unstable, you will never be able to move it around as tightly and aggressively as a mouse. Besides that, it's too complex to manufacture. Nobody's going to spend €300 on a piece of equipment that no game supports properly.

Whoever cracks this is in for making a lot of money.

Touchscreens. Imagine an FPS that way.

[LatinLegacy]

A lot of people in every age category own or have access to at least one video game console. I have been a hardcore PC gamer since the late 80's. My heart will always belong to PC gaming but I have a lot of older friends in their late 40's & higher that don't own a gaming capable PC. What they do have is an Xbox 360, PS3 or both. To be honest, I tend to have a lot more fun playing Battlefield 3, Gears of War 3, & many other console shooters with my older friends. When I'm playing COD, Team Fortress 2, UT, etc on the PC, the experience is much more serious. Me & my friends can be getting our asses handed to us on the Xbox 360 or PS3 & we'll be having a blast. Laughing & bashing each other on who got their ass kicked the worse. The friends I have via clans/guilds & on Steam are not of the same mindset. They do not like to lose :p. They are much more concerned about winning a match than having a good time. This is based on my own experience though. I do own every gaming platform currently available.

-LatinLegacy

[SergeantNubins]

I was a die hard PC gamer that hated consoles. Until I played Halo coop around a friends house.

Now im just a "gamer". I play pc, xbox and playstation games. Sometimes I just want a game where I can slouch on my sofa, whack up the surround sound and switch off playing a game on a big screen. Sometimes the quality of games on the consoles in certain genres are the same or even better than on the PC, or are better suited to consoles (for example id much rather play mass effect on console, because its a very cinematic game, driving games are naturally better on console, RTS's naturally better on PC).

When it comes to shooters... if its not one i take particularly seriously then i get it on a console, if its one i take seriously and want to play competetively, then il get it on PC.

It's not just as simple as - "consoles are cheap & easy".

[Mastachief]

Because Halo + Because Sofa

[Dubious]

Halo didnt come out on PC cause they then had to make 2 versions, cause who would play it on PC when you could do it blindfolded

All FPS games for consoles are dumbed down

(Yes ive tried Halo on xbox)