How the heck did SOE achieve such faction loyalty?

[Vamoozi]

As i haven't played the first planetside, I really don't understand how people that played it became so much loyal, defensive, biased (not telling this is a bad thing) To their faction.

I mean, I like NC the most, but see the other two factions have their appeal aswell, but some PS1 vet sees it diffrently, he sees his faction as a godlike empire, and the other two factions worms barely worth living.

how


HOW?

I mean, I played WoW and SWTOR and I didnt give a single damn wich faction I'm on at the moment, but i feel I will become like the PS1 vets overtime, biased to my faction.

[Coreldan]

9 years of neverending war...

scars even the toughest guys! :D

[Bags]

I'm a vet with no faction loyalty. I've got a 28/24TR, 24/22 NC, 23/22VS. I don't get all the people hating each other on here just for playing a diff faction.

My friends and I just played whatever tickled our fancy at the time.

[Vamoozi]

I'm a vet with no faction loyalty. I've got a 28/24TR, 24/22 NC, 23/22VS. I don't get all the people hating each other on here just for playing a diff faction.

My friends and I just played whatever tickled our fancy at the time.

:huh:

What does it mean?

[Goku]

28/24 TR = BR 28 and BR 24 TR. Two different characters at different battle ranks.

[ParanoiaComplex]

The reason for this is because faction loyalty is in the spirit of the game. You stay with one team and experience teamwork, friendship, and cooperation with them. When you constantly get killed and watch *your* territories being taken by other factions, you begin to dislike them and it's easier to join in with the almost festive bias.

It really adds to the uniqueness of the community. You can experience the same thing with any other game that has large faction based PVP, One example would be Rift.

[Toppopia]

Most games could promote faction loyalty, like BF3, if i could choose to be one faction all the time, then i would choose Russia because some of their weapons were better. But because this game has such big differences between the factions, each faction sucks in the people that like that play style, or that persons believes. etc etc.

[TheDAWinz]

Most games could promote faction loyalty, like BF3, if i could choose to be one faction all the time, then i would choose Russia because some of their weapons were better. But because this game has such big differences between the factions, each faction sucks in the people that like that play style, or that persons believes. etc etc.

i laughed when you said most of their weapons are better. They are shite, in game and real life.

[zomg]

It is indeed interesting how the faction loyalty is so deep.

On the other hand, it's pretty annoying to read threads when half of the posts are just some stupid faction trolling, even if it's occasionally funny.

[Dougnifico]

It because you pick one and that character is locked into a faction. When you play, you get to know the other people on your faction as its always the same general group of people you're allied with. Your enemies are also often the same enemies you've fought before, building rivalry. The persistence of the game also encourages this. You take a base for your empire until someone takes it away from you. It all ends up creating an environment that breed rivalry.

You might fall into this, you might be one of the few that don't. You may play one, move, and find that another makes you truly feel at home (happened to me). Overall, its just a ton of fun to take a side and bash the other 2. The vast majority of it is playful anyways.

P.S. TR FOR LIFE!!!!

[MasterChief096]

Another big thing was that you were fighting for territory, not just for points or something in a ranked match. The individuality aspect of it was reduced. You and your EMPIRE were fighting together over huge swathes of land that could actually be captured and influenced, enhancing the team play aspect of it all. If the faction happened to be your play style too, it just layered right on top of it. Epic 9 years of war over huge continents with EMPIRES, not instanced squads, is what has built such faction loyalty.

[Immigrant]

As i haven't played the first planetside, I really don't understand how people that played it became so much loyal, defensive, biased (not telling this is a bad thing) To their faction.

I mean, I like NC the most, but see the other two factions have their appeal aswell, but some PS1 vet sees it diffrently, he sees his faction as a godlike empire, and the other two factions worms barely worth living.

how


HOW?

I mean, I played WoW and SWTOR and I didnt give a single damn wich faction I'm on at the moment, but i feel I will become like the PS1 vets overtime, biased to my faction.

They just exploited something that is hardwired in our brains and transmitted by our genes... people are tribal, they tend to divide and choose sides... and dislike those who aren't on their side. It's the basic survival mechanism in situation of overpopulation or lack of resources and thus is important part of our very nature.

I haven't played those games but I presume they have guild based loyalties that's why switching a side is not a big problem if your guild switches. In PS people are organized in Outfits to be more effective but their loyalty lies in their Empire's colors since you don't fight for your guild but for your Empire unlike in other games where only your guild members are rewarded for your success in doing something.

Also unlike those games they haven't made a distinct classical black/white (good/bad) faction division.

[GuyFawkes]

When you are on the recieving end of the original quadshot in all its glory,or spawn to face 3 scattermaxes and another quadshot in a tower in the middle of nowhere. Or mown down by a magrider 20 feet away from you, or facing so many quasar maxes you think vs must come with them as a starter implant, hatred is instilled into you from the first few seconds and never leaves.

[Radaeron]

It because you pick one and that character is locked into a faction. When you play, you get to know the other people on your faction as its always the same general group of people you're allied with. Your enemies are also often the same enemies you've fought before, building rivalry. The persistence of the game also encourages this. You take a base for your empire until someone takes it away from you. It all ends up creating an environment that breed rivalry.

You might fall into this, you might be one of the few that don't. You may play one, move, and find that another makes you truly feel at home (happened to me). Overall, its just a ton of fun to take a side and bash the other 2. The vast majority of it is playful anyways.

P.S. TR FOR LIFE!!!!


Pretty much this. I'll only play the one faction most likely, as I ever did. While there are some bad eggs, most of the rivalry is all in good fun :)

I think it adds to the experience.

Moreso when you get attached to a particular base :p

[Dougnifico]

Pretty much this. I'll only play the one faction most likely, as I ever did. While there are some bad eggs, most of the rivalry is all in good fun :)

I think it adds to the experience.

Moreso when you get attached to a particular base :p

Ya. You do also build attachments to areas. One I always hear is Ixtab, Hossin. Mine, oddly, Faro, Cyssor. Site of my first full on major battle.

[GuyFawkes]

Just to add that you can talk to the opposition, not in a spy type of way (does happen though) which adds to the rivalry and camaraderie. Its similar to how boxers once they are in the ring they just want to destroy their opponent, but once its over they shake hands and no hard feelings. But if they have a rematch its back to being total enemies and wanting to kill each other again.

[Arovien]

Why is there such faction loyalty? TR 4 life, that's why!

[Blackwolf]

They just exploited something that is hardwired in our brains and transmitted by our genes... people are tribal, they tend to divide and choose sides... and dislike those who aren't on their side. It's the basic survival mechanism in situation of overpopulation or lack of resources and thus is important part of our very nature.

I haven't played those games but I presume they have guild based loyalties that's why switching a side is not a big problem if your guild switches. In PS people are organized in Outfits to be more effective but their loyalty lies in their Empire's colors since you don't fight for your guild but for your Empire unlike in other games where only your guild members are rewarded for your success in doing something.

Also unlike those games they haven't made a distinct classical black/white (good/bad) faction division.

What he said.

[Radaeron]

Ya. You do also build attachments to areas. One I always hear is Ixtab, Hossin. Mine, oddly, Faro, Cyssor. Site of my first full on major battle.

Dagda, Forseral was the homebase. That said, one of the best battles I ever experienced was Drakulu, Searhus.

Holding off a Red Alert with just a smattering of TR. We lost it eventually, but it was incredible.

[Vamoozi]

Just to add that you can talk to the opposition, not in a spy type of way (does happen though) which adds to the rivalry and camaraderie. Its similar to how boxers once they are in the ring they just want to destroy their opponent, but once its over they shake hands and no hard feelings. But if they have a rematch its back to being total enemies and wanting to kill each other again.

You can talk to other factions?
AWESOME!

[Top Sgt]

i laughed when you said most of their weapons are better. They are shite, in game and real life.

honestly I am laughing at you because for you to say russian weapons are shite.. tells me you have no real experience using them none the less many of them besides maybe a knockoff AK likely...you definately have not used them in a combat situation.. or you would not be saying what you said.

Also the original guy said "some" not most.

Russia has made some of the most rugged combat effective weapons in the history of 1890- to current times.

[Toppopia]

i laughed when you said most of their weapons are better. They are shite, in game and real life.

The AEK-971 is pretty awesome, 1 quick burst, half the mag gone, but you know the enemy is gonna die, and the AN-94, if it was based on real life, then it would be a very overpowered gun, because it can shoot 2 shots before recoil affects it.

[Hmr85]

They achieved faction loyalty due to 9 years of war. 9 years of running with the same outfit mates and experiencing the good times and the bad times. 9 years of facing off against old foes on the TR and the VS. After 9 years of war its not hard to build such a strong hate for the other two factions.

[Littleman]

Nine years of *chuka chuka chuka chuka chuka chuka chuka* made me loathe the NC.

Of course, I don't even like their Gauss rifle, and I was at my best using the darn thing. PS2 is shaping up a bit differently though, so I may have to try everyone out to see where my loyalties lay this time, even if the good ol' Republic spirit is calling out to me (it's totally not influencing me AT ALL >.> )

[Dagron]

I haven't played PS1 and i get it.

I played WoW (...) and I didnt give a single damn wich faction I'm on at the moment

Before they allowed us to make characters of both factions in the same server, we had a lot of rivalry.
People hated the other faction with a passion that was almost real (sometimes it was).

Dividing people makes them proud of their chosen side.

FOR DA HORDE!!!

[Lorgarn]

As i haven't played the first planetside, I really don't understand how people that played it became so much loyal, defensive, biased (not telling this is a bad thing) To their faction.

I mean, I like NC the most, but see the other two factions have their appeal aswell, but some PS1 vet sees it diffrently, he sees his faction as a godlike empire, and the other two factions worms barely worth living.

how


HOW?

I mean, I played WoW and SWTOR and I didnt give a single damn wich faction I'm on at the moment, but i feel I will become like the PS1 vets overtime, biased to my faction.

Well, first off you'd have to consider that both of those games let you play against your own faction. That already makes you loose some of that competetive and patriotic mindset as the lines between the two factions are being blurred by this. There is not real point to being one specific faction over the other, you fight both anyways, so what is the difference besides the personal preference?

Along with this you'd also have to consider that neither of these games are primarily focused on being competetive, as in 100% PvP and that's it. Both of these games, while having a somewhat large pvp-focused gameplay, are both PvE-focused primarily. That also contributes to the whole phenomenon.

Thirdly, in PlanetSide you have not only two but three factions which I personally believes to create even more of a competetive and patriotic mindset. This all together with the fact that PlanetSide is 100% PvP and it's a persistent game as well. When you're done fighting you're not just reloading the map, but instead your results of the previous battle/fights live on throughout the day.

So, in short; It's not just one factor that contributes but several of them all-together play an important role. :)

[Coreldan]

There's also a lot of psychological research done on this.

Something along the lines of a random blob of people just artificially divided into groups (just like "ok you are in group 1, you in group 2" kinda thing) and had them do some activities together. Fairly soon you can already start noticing how the attitudes start turning into "our group" and "their group" with some clear "bias" towards your own group for no apparent reason.

It's built into us! :D

[GuyFawkes]

You can talk to other factions?
AWESOME!

So much so that on the odd rare occasion I recall you would find a TR and NC player at the top of a tower , having a temporary respite/truce from hatred against each other, in order to facilitate their collective hatred towards the vs scum below. After that, probably kill each other.

[Figment]

It also helped that at the start of PlanetSide, you were only allowed to play one faction per server. This lasted quite some time actually.

Later on servers merged and the policy became pointless, faction hopping (fourth empire) was frowned upon as this destabilised populations. But more than that, to many it was considered treason to your buddies!

Teamwork and therefore outfits being so important further strengthen your roots: you and your buddies are all on the same side.

When YOUR home continent is attacked, it's not just the empire that's attacked, it's YOUR empire, YOUR continent, YOUR base, YOUR home, YOUR pride, YOUR pie stash that's being attacked. As leaders, you always got the best response from your troops by making such invasions feel as if they were after the dearest thing you had. The audacity of coming on YOUR turf and claiming it for themselves! How dare them commie bastards and purple scumbags! D:<

And if you win, you as a group can gloat about it on forums (people still do!).

Basically, everything you do in PS has always been an "us versus them" thing. It was designed this way and I still support the one empire one server basics, tbh.

[Hmr85]

So much so that on the odd rare occasion I recall you would find a TR and NC player at the top of a tower , having a temporary respite/truce from hatred against each other, in order to facilitate their collective hatred towards the vs scum below. After that, probably kill each other.

QFT

Man that brings back some memories. I will say my outfit mates and I use to have temporary truces with random outfits on the TR/VS side just for the exchange of weapons to store in the locker. The funny part of it was the tension prior to arriving at the meeting spot. Everybody would be walking up with their guns drawn just waiting for one of them to squelch on the deal. Ahh, the memories and believe me some of those deals did end up going bad. I still have a locker full of TR chain guns and Lashers. :rofl:

[Nephilimuk]

In the words of the NC.. "for liberty for freedom... squeel piggy"

Nah its all good fun and just part of the game

[Electrofreak]

Most other people here have covered the basic reasons why one feels loyalty. But in PS, you knew some of your enemies as well as your friends, in a sense.

I was primarily a sniper and air cavalry. I recognized other snipers, knew them well. Knew their strengths and weaknesses. Knew some of their loadouts, we'd exchanged fire so many times, and in some cases I'd even peeked into the backpacks sitting atop their corpses. :) I knew other pilots, which I could engage one-on-one, and those that I needed to call for support on. I had a strong respect for some of my rivals, despite my disdain for the rest of their empire.

You knew some of the enemy commanders and outfit leaders too, and seeing one on the battlefield surrounded by his platoon was a moment of excitement for a sniper or a pilot. Sometimes you'd be flying sorties over a hostile enemy base, strafing armor and infantry, when suddenly an enemy air cavalry outfit shows up and an intense furball develops. You'd know who they were, skilled rivals that left you calling targets over comms, working hard to avoid getting shot down while answering the yells for assistance of your squadmates who couldn't shake someone off their tail.

That's why an MMOFPS like PS is so awesome... match-based FPS completely miss a critical element; pride in your faction, and rivalry with your most dangerous enemies.

[Wayside]

As i haven't played the first planetside, I really don't understand how people that played it became so much loyal, defensive, biased (not telling this is a bad thing) To their faction.

I mean, I like NC the most, but see the other two factions have their appeal aswell, but some PS1 vet sees it diffrently, he sees his faction as a godlike empire, and the other two factions worms barely worth living.

how


HOW?

I mean, I played WoW and SWTOR and I didnt give a single damn wich faction I'm on at the moment, but i feel I will become like the PS1 vets overtime, biased to my faction.My 2c:

I think its a choice for most people, rather than some magic SOE has worked on the masses. You're seeing human nature at work. Or more accurately, at play. The same thing that drives people to be fanatical about one particular sports team over another drives them towards one Empire over another.

Firstly, People like having something to fight FOR as much as something to fight AGAINST. Something to draw them and their compatriots together. Even within the fictional confines of a video game. Something to justify the effort and glorify the progress.

Secondly, anything in a game that plays at the primal side and scratches that spot just behind the ears of the beast in each of us - THAT immerses people in a game. Concepts like vengeance, justice, loyalty. If you can trigger one of those primal drives in your audience you've presented something FAR more satisfying than a simple video game. You've given them an outlet for the part of them that wants to be out chasing down animals and waging territorial wars, but instead must spend each of its days confined to a cream colored cubical chasing down TPS reports and waging office politics.

If SOE has done anything, they've made sure that Planetside facilitates this bit of human nature. They've created a compelling story of three struggling empires waging an eternal war. They've given each of the empires qualities that some will love, and some will loath.

The TR, for example, are rigid, diciplined soldiers fighting to maintain order and peace as they see it. Thats appealing to many people. Others see them as totalitarian and fascist and are naturally motivated to fight against their oppressive reign.

The NC are easily seen as the "freedom fighters" of the group. Refusing to be ruled or controlled. Struggling for independence on a brave new world. Others see them as terrorists and anarchists, trying to destroy civilization.

And lastly, the VS... well the VS like to lick batteries and... stare at lasers. And that's a ...thing. I guess.

So yeah. Choice. SOE baits our inner demon with tasty, tasty conflict and rivalry. And we choose to dive in, head first.

Anyway, went a bit long, but thats my 2c.

[Brusi]

fuckin hell!

This thread, more than any other... makes me want to log in and play Planetside!

Giving a shooter game meaning, since 2003.

[Exodan]

When I first watched the E3 videos of TotalBiscuit and Maggie Krohn demoing the game I did think that TotalBiscuit was a little sad for constantly bigging up the TR and constantly slagging off the NC, its just a game after all and I thought he needed to get a life but having read some of the forum posts I kind of understand it. It takes a lot for me to be truly engrossed in a game, especially a multiplayer one and it would be interesting to see if I develop the same kind of faction loyalty that so many others do. The only question is which faction do I pick? I know I don't want to go with VS (no offence to any VS loyalists) only because I don't like using alien weapons in games and much prefer standard bullet type weapons.

[SnipeGrzywa]

The best way to think about it compared to other games is look at your empire as your guild. In any MMORPG if your guild mate is getting ganked by someone, you sure as hell are gonna group up and go roll that guy. That type of mentality is what you have here. When anyone in your empire is being attacked, you will defend them. In other games the only time you have faction loyalty is in battlegrounds. In Planetside, every action you do helps or hurts your empire.

When YOUR home continent is attacked, it's not just the empire that's attacked, it's YOUR empire, YOUR continent, YOUR base, YOUR home, YOUR pride, YOUR pie stash that's being attacked. As leaders, you always got the best response from your troops by making such invasions feel as if they were after the dearest thing you had. The audacity of coming on YOUR turf and claiming it for themselves!

At launch, the Lattice system was static. Each continent was attached to each other in a very particular way. Each of the sanctuaries were attached to 3 continents each, the empires "homeland". If you were fighting on your homeland, lets face it, your empire was currently losing, which was unacceptable. The enemies were at your doorstep (yes, couldn't invade sanc, but still had the same feeling). This lead to an unbelievable sense of loyalty. Players would abandon fights they were winning to recall and defend those continents. Lets face it, Amerish is the Vanu's. You Elmo's and Smurfs will never keep it. And it will remain ours in PS2. lol

Another thing that helped is your empire shared in the glory or ruin together. With each faction having completely different arsenals, if a weapon got nerfed, or vehicle got buffed, what ever it is, your entire empire had to deal with it. Another bounding element.

And lastly, with the large scale battles being fought, you got to know everyone, specially the CR5s (where the hell did those pants go), on your side. Yes, I was real tight with my outfit. Loyal Son of Vanu for life. But you also fight next to other outfits and lone wolves, and you end up trusting that they got your flanks secured.

You will experience this in PS2 if you choose an empire and don't hop around. It really is an unbelievable experience.

[Vamoozi]

Most other people here have covered the basic reasons why one feels loyalty. But in PS, you knew some of your enemies as well as your friends, in a sense.

I was primarily a sniper and air cavalry. I recognized other snipers, knew them well. Knew their strengths and weaknesses. Knew some of their loadouts, we'd exchanged fire so many times, and in some cases I'd even peeked into the backpacks sitting atop their corpses. :) I knew other pilots, which I could engage one-on-one, and those that I needed to call for support on. I had a strong respect for some of my rivals, despite my disdain for the rest of their empire.

You knew some of the enemy commanders and outfit leaders too, and seeing one on the battlefield surrounded by his platoon was a moment of excitement for a sniper or a pilot. Sometimes you'd be flying sorties over a hostile enemy base, strafing armor and infantry, when suddenly an enemy air cavalry outfit shows up and an intense furball develops. You'd know who they were, skilled rivals that left you calling targets over comms, working hard to avoid getting shot down while answering the yells for assistance of your squadmates who couldn't shake someone off their tail.

That's why an MMOFPS like PS is so awesome... match-based FPS completely miss a critical element; pride in your faction, and rivalry with your most dangerous enemies.
That sounds so awesome that it hyped me even more about the game.

[Zekeen]

So much so that on the odd rare occasion I recall you would find a TR and NC player at the top of a tower , having a temporary respite/truce from hatred against each other, in order to facilitate their collective hatred towards the vs scum below. After that, probably kill each other.

Bullet users united against the evil energy users on many occassions.

[Electrofreak]

Bullet users united against the evil energy users on many occassions.

Every faction had a certain "lame" tactic the others hated. Personally I hated jump-jetting Vanu MAXes getting into places nobody else could, that floating infantry-lawnmower they called a Magrider tank, and the disco-ball launching Lasher that meant death even if you were behind cover.

TR I could tolerate, even played a TR alt for a while, but the Vanu deserve only death!

[Captain1nsaneo]

Why is there faction loyalty? That's an interesting question. A lot of the posts in here nail the core concepts of why. Locked into what ever side you choose, common purpose, and your allies. While it's been mentioned I think there's another thing that hasn't gotten as much credit as it deserves.
The places in Planetside weren't digital. Oh they were actually digital, that's true, but they didn't feel it. It felt like the world was actually a real place. It wasn't done through nifty environments, flora, fauna, or weather. It was done through persistence and that as the war moved so did the land under your feet. You got to know places, learned about them from attacking, from defending. In your head you would get to know the terrain, think about it, where does the ground give me an advantage, where are there likely mines, is that StoneRhino in a liberator over there? Eventually it becomes like an favorite hangout, some continents more than others, but they gain a real sense of physical space over time. This leads to the situation that other games try get with the 'it's our base!' motivation for defense. But in those games that base doesn't have any presence, it's not real. In Planetside, the bases are real.

[MegaBusta]

My personal experience is that after you spend an entire day fighting over one Interlink and finally capture this god forsaken base. You form a bond with the people who holed up in the base with you and in your outfit that I can't really explain. Eventually you put so much time into a character and form these bonds you don't see playing with anyone else an option.

Again this is from my point of view and others will see differently.

[Captain1nsaneo]

My personal experience is that after you spend an entire day fighting over one Interlink and finally capture this god forsaken base. You form a bond with the people who holed up in the base with you and in your outfit that I can't really explain. Eventually you put so much time into a character and form these bonds you don't see playing with anyone else an option.

Again this is from my point of view and others will see differently.

That's another thing that seems to help. After the fight there's often a lull or respite. That delay between fights I think is fairly important as it provides bonding time and small talk. I'm sad to see it go in PS2 and it honestly worries me that there's going to be much less time to breathe in the game.

[kadrin]

Lets face it, Amerish is the Vanu's. You Elmo's and Smurfs will never keep it. And it will remain ours in PS2. lol


Oh Amerish, our lovely home, how we fought for you many times.

And how we got zero base'd there a few times, those were the really memorable fights, the last stands, literally our last base on the whole of Auraxis.

[Checowsky]

Faction loyalty came from the guys who play the game for a fun time and guys who play way to seriously. The in between being the guys who just want to play a shooter game.

It is dumb when you think about it but hey, if it floats your boat...

[Pillar of Armor]

So much so that on the odd rare occasion I recall you would find a TR and NC player at the top of a tower , having a temporary respite/truce from hatred against each other, in order to facilitate their collective hatred towards the vs scum below. After that, probably kill each other.

This reminds me of a time when NC and TR were fighting hard over a base and the VS had a small population on the continent. Somehow I ended up talking with a VS cloaker while I was sniping at the NC and we worked it out so he scouted for me and killed anyone trying to sneak up on my sniping position. Good times :)

[Razicator]

Ever play World of Warcraft PvP or PvE?

Pvp
Remember pre-cross realm battlegrounds? When the Grand Marshals and Warlords were farming battlegrounds 24/7, and you'd see pre-made 40-guildies Alterac Valley? You knew the names of every single High Warlord and who was running what battleground groups. You knew which guilds had the best PvPers. There was a lot of rivalry between factions. Why? Because you saw the same people again and again, getting to know them. This all got destroyed in cross-realm battlegrounds. It's like matchmaking: you never saw the same people in bgs ever again. No rivalries formed. No one knew or cared about the other team, or hell even your own team. The only time anything like pre-cross realm pvp rivalry came up again was in very high ELO arena games, where you'd see the same teams again and again and developed rivalries. The only "animosity" between factions now is just a general sense of "shamans or paladins are OP as hell and that's why my faction fails in PvP," before Blizzard too got rid of the unique faction classes.

PvE
Pre-crossrealm raiding, you knew who the top guilds were in clearing raids. You knew which guilds were the farthest along in your server in raid progression. You knew which people actually had a full set of Tier 1 gear. You knew which warlocks had the ultra rare Headmaster's Charge (.1% drop rate in an hours long raid). You knew which small guilds would host quick open-to-public Scholomance runs. You knew that the Alliance had OP 5-minute paladin buffs that you'd blame for the Horde in general being behind progression. All this failed when cross-realm raiding and instancing was introduced; no longer did you know or care which guilds were furthest ahead. However, it was a less of a fail than PvP because you still had to know which guilds were best on your server so you can raid with them. But in the smaller raids and instances, you just queued up with randoms anywhere and never seen them again.

PS2
The few servers in PS2, and the inability for you to move one character to another server at will like in a matchmaking FPS, made you very loyal to one server, one faction, one fight. Sure people had multiple characters, but more often than not they were on the same server; hell people would attack their own guilds with alternate accounts for the thrill of killing your friends.

My main fear in PS2 will be that you will be able to move characters from one server to another like matchmaking or like BF3. This will break much of the rivalry between factions. I just feel it in my gut. Sure people will complain that they cannot play with friends, but there are many workarounds. Make a new character, hell they can implement a system where you can copy a character to another server, but not move him. Hell tell your friends to join YOUR server. Heck, paid transfers work fine too, SOE has to make money somehow too.


Then, everything changed when the Fire Nation attacked.

[waldizzo]

Ever play World of Warcraft PvP or PvE?

Pvp
Remember pre-cross realm battlegrounds? When the Grand Marshals and Warlords were farming battlegrounds 24/7, and you'd see pre-made 40-guildies Alterac Valley? You knew the names of every single High Warlord and who was running what battleground groups. You knew which guilds had the best PvPers. There was a lot of rivalry between factions. Why? Because you saw the same people again and again, getting to know them. This all got destroyed in cross-realm battlegrounds. It's like matchmaking: you never saw the same people in bgs ever again. No rivalries formed. No one knew or cared about the other team, or hell even your own team. The only time anything like pre-cross realm pvp rivalry came up again was in very high ELO arena games, where you'd see the same teams again and again and developed rivalries. The only "animosity" between factions now is just a general sense of "shamans or paladins are OP as hell and that's why my faction fails in PvP," before Blizzard too got rid of the unique faction classes.



I came here to post this exact same thing.

[Hamma]

That's a good point actually hadn't thought of that.

[Xyntech]

I think for a lot of people (or possibly just for me), it's a small but healthy amount of faction loyalty, mixed with a strong dose of exaggeration for fun.

Personally, the VS just suit me well on multiple levels. I like the sci-fi emphasis, I like the style, I liked a lot of the ES weapons and vehicles from the first game... So it's a natural fit. I've generally liked the VS players the most as well.

The TR have been pretty cool for me as well. Their technology, style, and players generally pretty acceptable to my sensibilities. Most of my genuine animosity towards the TR comes from them being my enemy in game, but I really have to work to play up my hatred of them if I want to smack talk them.

But then there are the NC, who I just can't stand. There tech has always been the most annoying for me to fight against, which is compounded by the fact that I feel dirty while using it myself. Very little about their aesthetics or style suits me at all. Their players, back when I played in PS1's early days, were generally more grating on my nerves, even when I was playing along side them. Certainly there are good and bad elements among all of the empires playerbases, but I just don't tend to get along with as many NC players as I have with even TR players and especially VS players.

It's not at all hard for me to play up how much I hate the NC. I still exaggerate it, but it isn't hard.

I think the 3 faction thing is very big. It makes it seem like it's important that you contribute to your side, because you are always outnumbered. It also provides more variety than a binary choice, so there is room to have a lot of hate for even just one of the two enemy factions, while in a two sided game you may be more likely to like both factions.

I think the only game with two factions that I've ever really felt a strong connection with one side was Total Annihilation. ARM > CORE, fuck yeah peewees.

[Dagron]

I think for a lot of people (or possibly just for me), it's a small but healthy amount of faction loyalty, mixed with a strong dose of exaggeration for fun.

Haha, qft.

[WiFiN]

Thing is, when there are only two faceless factions like in TF2 it doesn't matter which side you play. It's just you by your PC and your character is pretty much faceless, so you don't really even care which side wins, just caring for your own score.

But when the factions are dramatically differnt, they have thir own story, their own intentions and values people associate themselves with the factions theat suit themselves, this way they're fighting for the glory of their own faction instead of his own K\D ratio. In PSU there are three distinct factions: Militaristic and force-driven TR, liberal guerilla-like NC, and geeky zealous VS. This way evenyone's fighing for something they belong to, instead of bare XP or kills.

[Malorn]

Most games stuck with the faction loyalty so long as they didn't disrupt the community or make it super easy to switch sides. I think WoW had good faction loyalty in vanilla. DAoC had good faction loyalty. WAR had it as best I could tell. Anything with that persistent world where swapping sides wasn't trivial.

When games start doing a lot of instancing the persistent world fades (WoW with the cross-realm stuff, for example). Its less about the persistent world and owning it and more about the instant gratification. WoW has become essentially a lobby.

PlanetSide has no instancing and switching sides started out at having a small barrier. So it kept its persistent world, its factions the same, and didn't have a lot of empire hoppers.

PS2 is the same, except for it being easier to hop empires on the same server by making new accounts.

[Traak]

I have tended to drift between empires, as they tend to evolve over time. When one empire has smarter, more-organized, and friendlier people, I go there. It's about fun, after all, and no empire has a lock on that, so far.

[Soyokaze]

Frankly, those PS1 vets without faction loyalty kinda piss me off.

The TR are a fascist military state. I can sympathize with the NC, but I don't understand how people can bring themselves to play jackbooted thugs. If you are TR, you know that you are the game's villain. You are an oppressor denying other's self governance. You are objectively fighting for the wrong side.

The NC are well meaning, but beyond a general desire to overthrow the government their various conglomerated groups have many and various ideas about what should replace it - or none at all. They're entirely directionless, knowing only that they want to stick it to the man.

The VS do not want war, but it has been forced upon them by the ignorant masses surrounding them. Hell, their innovations are moving humanity beyond war. They have already achieved immortality for christ's sake. If the TR and NC would stop distracting them, how long do you think it would be before limited space and resources would no longer be a factor, proving the whole exercise pointless?

And then some players don't give a damn about any of that and pick their faction based on, what, their favorite gun? Humbug.

[Mongo]

Players with no real faction loyalty = 4th empire which we all loved so much.

Ideally you want a game to evoke emotions in it's players, designers are far too happy to try focus on 'fun' instead of pulling the user into the experience which in turn does the same thing but more intensely. When you genuinely care about what happens you really get pulled into the game, and the enjoyment factor sky rockets. In PS you fight the good fight win or loose with your comrades. As people said it pulls on basic instincts of being human.

This sums it up to me personally:

From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

[Rago]

I also enjoy the "show".
And im doing fine with that !

[velleity]

Its a role playing game mostly built around aoe spells.

[Shadanwolf]

Faction pride and loyalty is at the heart of a 3 faction conflict game.Something the game decision makers at Mythic forgot(gutting the very core concept of the game ) when they allow cross realming(5 minute delay to play your character on another realm )

[DodgeIt]

For me, it was the players.
I started on NC, and got into an outfit (FightClub) straight away. I'm still there with them after 9 years, playing various games.

There was only one time that all 3 factions came together and it wasnt so much faction rivalry.
That was when we turned to Server rivalry.

From Werner, we always poked fun at the other server on the forums, and they did it back.

[fvdham]

There begin Home Continents helped.
I was on Amerish, defending like the last Vanu base on the last Vanu continent.
The Vanu Home Continent.
Retreat was not option.
You are out of ammo. Enemy tanks are incoming.
You use your virtual finger nails to try to take out the enemy tanks,
hurling your body against the tanks to try and slow them down.

[Zalmoxis]

If you saw the PS2 twitter and facebook, you'd know that even the devs are actually encouraging this faction loyalty and rivalry. This is a bonus for me, as I really enjoy these types of things and it will make me enjoy the game even more.

[Boomhowser]

Played as NC for 4-5 years wouldnt even consider playing as another faction at the time, why you ask... well I can't answer you.. find a faction you enjoy and stick with them for a couple of weeks and you'll suddenly realize that your gaining a bias to the others.

[Kran De Loy]

Most other games are not built entirely around the idea that the sole goal of the game is to utterly annihilate the other factions.

Basically the faction wars in Planetside are pretty close to the core of what the game is while in other games it's more of added in excuse used to justify PvP content.

One of the few exceptions to the usual practice that I played was Dark Age of Camelot. It did faction rivalry well as they made the 3 factions in that game vie over 'Relics' that gave faction wide buffs. In addition they made it so that whoever owned the most strongholds in the Realm versus Realm areas got exclusive access to the dungeon with the best gear. Since the dungeon was always changing hands you could usually find lots of PvP inside of it as well where people from the previous faction that owned it would be stuck inside so the newest winners would usually do one or two sweeps of the place to clean it out. Never did get all of them tho which made for some great PvP while other people were trying to slay demons for the loot.

So far Guild Wars 2 is also shaping up nicely in similar ways but instead of RvR they have World versus World where it's essentially just Servers fighting against each other instead of factions (so each individual server can thus be considered a faction in a sense).

In the end though, while both those games were pretty good at encouraging faction loyalty, they're still just one side of how the people play the game. Like in GW2 will have that WvWvW stuff, it will also have an Arena mode for 5v5 matches and it will also have the usual PvE stuff.

In Planetside 2 there is war and there is only war.

[The Loverator]

...but some PS1 vet sees it diffrently, he sees his faction as a godlike empire, and the other two factions worms barely worth living.

how

HOW?



Well, i haven't played Planetside 1 - but i guess i may be able to tell what it is.

to some Extent:
- One really admires and honors the Faction he/she likes.
It's not a thing about despising the other Facion's, it's only about liking the favorite One.


- and some other People are just "unreasonable".
Here, i don't want to blaim anyone inside the "Realm of Planetside",
instead i prefer to go with Reality - and look how unreasonable, dumb - and arrogant People can be, sometimes.

"Funnily", most arrogant People, who despise EVERYTHING other than their own Party
as Insect's and such, are Rightwing-People ( or "Anti/Leftwing-Extremists ),
OR: aggressive/disrespectful People anyway...

The interesting Thing about them is: Even the most aggressive Rightwing-Fashist can appear
calm and reasonable, most of the Time. Because: They are so INCREDIBLY sure in their own
Imagination that "their Party (and Kind)" wields absolute Superiority,

that they act 'tranquilized' because of this thought...


... ... they only get ugly and nasty, as soon as THIS Image of them gets into Danger.

A~nnnnnnnnnd: Another Party, another "something", that does simply not look inferior to them,
no Matter how peaceful, or tolerant, or clever it m~ay be,

THIS will be a Danger for their own Picture of Superiority already. This is, why most arrogant
People are complete Imbecile's in the first Place.



You can observe this Kind of People i mean all over the World. 'cause they are pretty often
the Lot of People who insult other Groups/People for no Reason. May it be a Folk-Group in some
Region/Area on Earth - or some Religion - or some Country's and Race's,

the accurate thing is that whatever gets treated insulting by them, is something that
can - by all Means - something that has N.E.V.E.R. done anything to them!!

No Harm, no Offense - nothing that could have insulted them or their Life anyway,
but it STILL gets 'attacked' by them - may it be verbally or worse.



S~ooo,

now i don't want to say that some Planetside-Players are incredible dumb, independent from how
direct i have hit the Nail on the Head or such,

but Yes - some People are choosing the "easy", the "dumb" Way...


When some People don't know why they should NOT choose some Faction, they act like they have
a bad Conscience or Stuff - and try to artificially speak other Party's and Factions bad.



Please forgive me, Terran Republic-Fan's - but i think your Faction will be VERY prone for this kind of People.

Most People - who "fascinatingly" - respect almost nothing at all in their Life,
"mysteriously" mostly often find their Way into communistic Society's - knows the Devil why.

Maybe because this Society gives them most the Opportunity to harass and bully their fellow Humans. >_>




If you observe People worldwide in the real World, you can witness pretty much often, that even
the most ignorant, simple Fashists, speak of "Order", Righteousness, Honor and such things.

B~ah, my Post gets to long one more time... ... ^^



I for myself must marvel the New Conglomerate-Player's, because i think they are mainly "brave" Players,
for their Choice. It's very brave to choose a Party with lesser Members than the other,

and since the Vanu Sovereignty is pretty attractive for many People, too,
it will be a bit difficult to get many People who just don't wanna play the Communists.




greetings, LV. :wave:

[Boomhowser]

Ok i'll be honest this time...

Faction loyalty is a fun thing to have.. I deliberatly celebrate NC and insult TR and VS because its so much easier to kill the enemy when you have little connection with them, start becomming chummy with the opposite side and you make silly mistakes like 30 minute ceasefires on xmas day because you want to stand on a beach emoting the other factions dont get me wrong over time I will come to know and respect various individuals hey I might even throw them a quick wave before my mind goes eww TR infiltrator then lets me stick a knife in his back
So for me at least a strong faction loyalty helps to supress any icky morality issues i might have had

[Figment]

From Werner, we always poked fun at the other server on the forums, and they did it back.

=)

We were right though!

[Mongo]

Not really Loverator, im a Die hard VS player and I almost completely dont fit that stereotype, you have unceremoniously dumped us all under.

It isnt about labeling anyone who supports an ideal as a rightwing facist, as that makes zero sense example - If I was a staunch supporter of the liberal left I automatically become a right wing facist because of my idealism?

Your over thinking this all somewhat and trying to shoehorn everyone into a single niche political orientation. It's more basic than that bud, it boils down to simple human group nature and the thing you get from alot of vets from war's (first hand experience of this from family members) after you have been fighting so long - sometimes the only thing left is hate.

[DodgeIt]

=)

We were right though!

True, but thats not the point right now ;)

[The Loverator]

Retreat was not option.

You are out of ammo. Enemy tanks are incoming.

You use your virtual finger nails to try to take out the enemy tanks,

hurling your body against the tanks to try and slow them down.


How the heck did SOE achieve such faction loyalty?



How did Noble Six in Halo Reach kept his fighting Spirit all the Time? He knew he would have
had higher Chances for Survival by run into Hiding and keep hidden for as long as possible.

But he did not hide. He fought against massive Overnumbers of endlessly coming Enemy-
Troops, until he did run out Ammo, fought his Enemys with the Weapon's of their own, fallen
Comrades - and kept fighting until he died between a huge Carpet of Enemy Corpses.


Why? Because you CAN'T always fall back or retreat.

It's the same as what Jean Luc Picard from Star Trek said in his Fight against the Borg.

There IS a Line or Place where you cannot fall back and flee, no Matter how powerful or
superior your Foe is. Some Place is just Home and so you can't abandon it.
Some Places are just holy to you. Abandon them is the same as abandoning your own Existence. ;)



And... ... ... if you just managed to admire and love your own, favourite Faction that much,
than it's likely possible that the absolute Home-Place of this Faction becomes your holy Sanctum.

[greenberetdelta]

its not hard to fight and hate with tremendous zeal, anarchists and people who would destroy humanity

[Wahooo]

Not really Loverator,
Your over thinking this all .

The question is how did SOE generate the loyalty in game. It surely wasn't lore and back story.

Loyalty to the players you play with. Hatred to the players you played against and saw regularly. Defending your special bases and home continents. That is really all it was. One toon per faction per server helps initially and so yeah as much as I want to jump back and forth I want the faction loyalty I think it adds something special to the game.

[SmallBird]

Q: "How the heck did SOE achieve such faction loyalty?"

A: Because Ingroup vs Outgroup fighting is part of the human psyche... unfortunately :(

[SmallBird]

Q: "How the heck did SOE achieve such faction loyalty?"

A: Because Ingroup vs Outgroup fighting is part of the human psyche... unfortunately :(

Exhibit A:
I don't like you.:evil:

:groovy:

[vVRedOctoberVv]

It's easy. I'm a smart guy, so I went TR because the NC are idiots and the VS are freaks. After that, I just let nature take its course.

Kill the smurfs! Kill the barneys! Take Auraxis for ourselves!

[Chefkoch]

Well in the old days there was only 1 faction per Server possible. So you had to be loyal :)

[Raka Maru]

It wasn't hard at all to be loyal to your faction.

* The uniqueness of each empire.
* Band of Brothers.
* Being able to help strangers in your faction felt natural.
* Spies were very much hated and dealt with.

The game was built in such a way that it was very easy to help anyone in your faction. Lodestar could be parked and someone would CE the area, another would set up an angis shield on it. Not even being in the same squad. Maxes locked down and engies and medics keeping an eye on them. This happened even before SEP was introduced.

If they broke through, we were all gonna die, if we couldn't push out, we would be pushed back. The distinct weapon sounds that you heard right before the respawn screen. I grew to hate/respect the Chaka-Chaka and pew-pew. Looked up as the VS maxes were flying around and thought how to kill them.

Easy trash talking by hot keys. "Your best is my worst!". I would get caught as a cloaker surrounded by NC and they would taunt me and hold fire until I decided to run. All this built up to make you loyal to your faction and hate the others in game. If you didn't respawn fast enough, they would defile your corpse.

Most reasons have already been given, just wanted to add a few of mine. :)

[Tvayda]

Its simple, people who love freedom and are good Americans or (insert other nationality here) play NC, and the commie/socialists who want to run your life went TR and the religious zealots who think they know best and who believe themselves to be the "chosen" went VS. Simple.

I kid, I kid. But honestly, some people do have a very fierce loyalty to their faction and others do not, its about immersing yourself in the game, which is a never ending war and when PS first came out was very easy to do. So if you really play one faction enough, you see the others as evil and bad and whatnot and that just develops into a seething hatred for anything but what you and your empire's brethren are.

[Ninjacalypse]

9 years of neverending war...

scars even the toughest guys! :D

War...war never changes...

[Tehroth]

It is human natures to choose a Team/Country what have you to defend vigorously. Humans are social creatures(for the most part) so choosing a group to fit into has been happening since our conception.

[BoughtTheFarm]

It wasn't hard at all to be loyal to your faction.

* The uniqueness of each empire.
* Band of Brothers.
* Being able to help strangers in your faction felt natural.
* Spies were very much hated and dealt with.

The game was built in such a way that it was very easy to help anyone in your faction. Lodestar could be parked and someone would CE the area, another would set up an angis shield on it. Not even being in the same squad. Maxes locked down and engies and medics keeping an eye on them. This happened even before SEP was introduced.

If they broke through, we were all gonna die, if we couldn't push out, we would be pushed back. The distinct weapon sounds that you heard right before the respawn screen. I grew to hate/respect the Chaka-Chaka and pew-pew. Looked up as the VS maxes were flying around and thought how to kill them.

Easy trash talking by hot keys. "Your best is my worst!". I would get caught as a cloaker surrounded by NC and they would taunt me and hold fire until I decided to run. All this built up to make you loyal to your faction and hate the others in game. If you didn't respawn fast enough, they would defile your corpse.

Most reasons have already been given, just wanted to add a few of mine. :)

Just as Raka says, though some of his memories are a little dark, but as he was a cloaker it guess it was part of playing in a Gimp suit. ;)

You got to know the names of your regular enemies and you stood by your faction, help your empire players and that built faction loyalty.

BTF


Revenge is a dish best served on a bed of hot Decimators - Burn Them Down

[Kalee J]

I know that I always feel obligated to defend Amerish. I have always thought of it as the VS home. As the saying goes, "Honor Amerish, and keep it Vanu"

[Raka Maru]

Just as Raka says, though some of his memories are a little dark, but as he was a cloaker it guess it was part of playing in a Gimp suit. ;)

You got to know the names of your regular enemies and you stood by your faction, help your empire players and that built faction loyalty.

BTF


Revenge is a dish best served on a bed of hot Decimators - Burn Them Down

Didn't realize or considered them dark until you pointed this out, but I guess you are right. :)

Being behind enemy lines 75% of the time got you accustomed to being mistreated sometimes, all part of the game.

[Udnknome]

Well, i haven't played Planetside 1 - but i guess i may be able to tell what it is.




Anyone else stop reading as soon as they see this line at the beginning?

[Caldaren]

Loverator, with all due respect, you're wrong.
Raka Maru nails it on the head.

For the first 2-3 years I ran topside, running AMS' and playing support. You recognize that you're topping off the same people, repairing the same tanks and having the same grunts spawn at your AMS. You've got the same people running air cover topside, and you trust them to do their job, so that you can do yours.

Being an AMS driver was like being an over-the-road trucker pulling a trailer that had "SHOOT ME" written on the sides. You were a threat, target numero uno, the driving force that moved those static lines. They had to be protected, else every other grunt had a longer run across more open terrain, able to be picked off by Magmowers or rocket-spam gunships.

I chose TR because I liked Red/Black more than Blue/Yellow or Purple. I stuck with TR because that's where the relationships were that I made.

And later, when we turned the caves Red....I stayed TR because the outfit I ran with was TR.

After a while, you know that rationally there is balance in the game. But after the 500th time you've been killed by a jackhammer, or a lasher, you don't care. It's us vs. them, the faceless them with weapons that require no skill as opposed to your weapons which are harder to use. And against the faceless them are your brothers in arms, fighting the good fight...because it's Planetside, that's what you do, that's why you play the game.

Don't bring real world into this, it has no place here. In the end, it is Red/Black vs. Blue/Yellow vs. Purple, and whatever side you choose the others are the OTHERS, and therefor, not to be trusted.

[Helwyr]

I really hope PS2 has that same Faction loyalty that PS1 enjoyed. It really is a credit to the game that a MMOFPS manages to generate this in the player base better than every MMORPG I've played. DAoC was close, but really only on the RP servers.

It's hard to definitively pin down why. There's been a few good explanations already. My personal feeling was that the different Factions did to a small degree attract different types of people, it wasn't entirely the equipment that made the empires distinct, but to a degree the players themselves... and when you play one Faction long enough, you begin to form a perception of the other Faction players that is way larger than the actual reality. The narcissism of minor differences, the fuel for wars and ethnic hatreds in the real world, but the fuel for more engaging gameplay in online games ;)

Oh yeah, Vanu for life! ..There was an NC poster above saying how he couldn't stand VS. I couldn't stand the NC. Full of Rambo wannabees with the maturity of an 8 year old suffering from bad parenting and overdosed on sugar... It's the bright colors and big guns that attracts them. It's not all bad though, plenty of smacktalk (aka tears) to be farmed from their Aircav with my tree dwelling Starfire. <throws more fuel on the fire> :huh::evil::doh:

[ringring]

As i haven't played the first planetside, I really don't understand how people that played it became so much loyal, defensive, biased (not telling this is a bad thing) To their faction.

I mean, I like NC the most, but see the other two factions have their appeal aswell, but some PS1 vet sees it diffrently, he sees his faction as a godlike empire, and the other two factions worms barely worth living.

how


HOW?

I mean, I played WoW and SWTOR and I didnt give a single damn wich faction I'm on at the moment, but i feel I will become like the PS1 vets overtime, biased to my faction.

I think the first thing is that SOE didn't build a game they built a framwork of a game and the players provide the content. The players are the content.

Second, you join an outfit and you achieve things together.

Third, via the chat channels and the kill spams you being to recognise people outside your outfit. You recognise who is good on your side and you recognise who is dangerous on the other.
You see one name on the kill spam and you think, I know from previous experience that guy is good, I am not going down there to be killed, I'll be smart and wait for an advantage -or- I recognise that name, he's part of XXX outfit, those guys are good we need more help here.

[Novice bot]

Well, to me, its pretty much the concept of clans and loyalty. You get kinda "attached" to your "homies", and you get used to playing with them. It's just on a broader scale. Not to mention all the propaganda that's going on. Myself, I currently ain't that loyal to any faction, as I go where my clan goes (assuming the guys will play the game). And then, loyalty towards the faction comes naturally over time.