How far will PS2 stray in terms of gameplay from modern FPSs? [Archive]

DownloadFailed

2012-07-08, 12:56 AM

By that I mean what conventions will PS2 steer clear of or emulate that are found in many modern FPS shooters?
Will there be regenerating health?
Will there be squad spawning (please say no)?
Will there be highly-limited support items (like only 1-2 grenades, mines, etc. per soldier)?
Will there be some form of melee?

I guess the thing I worry most about with PS2 is if it will end up like (forgive me) BF3 in the future. I really REALLY don't want another BF3 with guns that go pew-dee-pew, and I really REALLY want a game that has a similar metagame to PS1, like advanced tactics, community and teamwork, and player purpose.

GreatMazinkaise

2012-07-08, 01:09 AM

From what we know:
1. Maybe?
2. Sort of... highly visible, non-instantaneous squad-spawning on squad leader on a short cooldown
3. Probably
4. Quick knife is in-game as of the E3 vid, but since no one killed anyone with it we don't know how effective it is.

Maticus

2012-07-08, 01:47 AM

Carnage

2012-07-08, 02:18 AM

I guess the thing I worry most about with PS2 is if it will end up like (forgive me) BF3 in the future. I really REALLY don't want another BF3 with guns that go pew-dee-pew, and I really REALLY want a game that has a similar metagame to PS1, like advanced tactics, community and teamwork, and player purpose.

well the thing is that BF3 was based on a campaign with multilayer, BF3 had modes of play, (Conquest, Rush, Team Deathmatch etc.) in it's multilayer, and it used that as its platform to play from, PS2 has no "modes", it's engine was made specifically to cater to its needs as a MMOFPS and it's been made while taking into account PS1 players opinions, you will even see SOE employes on these forums reading and putting in there input... this kind of commitment to game function was not a present in BF3, and they also had to cater to consoles. And that is what will make PS2 superior to BF3 while true to PS1 in the same instance... we have not played PS2 yet, but I suspect there will be no comparison between the 2 games.

Antivide

2012-07-08, 02:32 AM

What worries me is that Higby in many interviews likes to emphasize that they're taking a lot of influences from "AAA FPS games" like Battlefield and Call of Duty.

By that I HOPE he meant just the gunplay. As in the satisfying oomph and KAPOW/BANG of the guns.

The UI already reminds me of Battlefield 3, which isn't a bad thing. The UI in BF3 works for the most part. I don't mind them basing the UI off that.

All that meta stuff like "TTK" "Regenerating health" and "squad spawning" are all stuff that shouldn't be in this game.

Squad spawning seems balanced from what we've seen. The TTK and Regenerating health are two thing that worry me. Hopefully when the beta hits the dev team will listen to the majority who really would not like low TTKs and regenerating health.

codylee

2012-07-08, 04:02 AM

ewww.. call of duty style guns make me want to puke @_@ i'm pretty sure the tr's default weapons will be the most cod like *pukes*

Accuser

2012-07-08, 04:15 AM

All that meta stuff like "TTK" "Regenerating health" and "squad spawning" are all stuff that shouldn't be in this game.

Regenerating health does make medics somewhat superfluous... but the rest is good. Squad spawning will be limited, but keep your team together. And the low TTK will make infantry combat FAR more fun than in PS1. Imagine it... you could be the first to push into an enemy base and actually be able to get a kill!

ChipMHazard

2012-07-08, 04:51 AM

Regenerating health does make medics somewhat superfluous... but the rest is good. Squad spawning will be limited, but keep your team together. And the low TTK will make infantry combat FAR more fun than in PS1. Imagine it... you could be the first to push into an enemy base and actually be able to get a kill!

Aye, personally I hope they remove health regen and instead look into alternative means to restore health. Medics, medlabs, certable health regen packs. But we'll see just how it plays out come beta.

Kezz

2012-07-08, 04:54 AM

MacXXcaM

2012-07-08, 05:09 AM

Littleman

2012-07-08, 06:10 AM

By that I mean what conventions will PS2 steer clear of or emulate that are found in many modern FPS shooters?
Will there be regenerating health?
-See: Halo: Combat Evolved or Halo: Reach. Regenerating shields, with set health beyond the shielding that acts more as a buffer zone after the shield drops before YOU drop.

Will there be squad spawning (please say no)?
-Yes. Last I heard, 3 squad mates tops within a set time frame, and they come screaming in via loud, bright, actually destroyable(?) drop pods.

Will there be highly-limited support items (like only 1-2 grenades, mines, etc. per soldier)?
-We're not too sure about this yet. If it means anything, grenades do cost resources to equip before heading out.

Will there be some form of melee?
-We saw quick knifing, and even the MAX units can melee this time around. We have no idea how effective it is however.

I guess the thing I worry most about with PS2 is if it will end up like (forgive me) BF3 in the future. I really REALLY don't want another BF3 with guns that go pew-dee-pew, and I really REALLY want a game that has a similar metagame to PS1, like advanced tactics, community and teamwork, and player purpose.

PS2 will have all of that. It might not be exactly as it was in PS1, but player/world persistence and the sheer scale of the game is what gave us a sense of advanced tactics, community, teamwork, and player purpose, not how the cert/inventory system, vitals (health/armor) or CoF worked. You could place all of PS1's systems into BF3 or CoD and they would still lack the depth you seek.

PS2 will offer us a new sense of these things. If you feel it's less than what PS1 offered, I can't help you: I saw nearly nothing in PS1 that didn't essentially boil down to ADADing in the halls of a base with your HA spamming in your enemies general direction. That's not tactical...

Regardless, the number of people involved and the size of the world we were taking part in are what encouraged deeper levels of play in Planetside 1. You generally don't care to bother all that much outside of clan games in games like BF3 where there is a definitive end that resets all your efforts come the next match.

TAA

2012-07-08, 06:14 AM

What worries me is that Higby in many interviews likes to emphasize that they're taking a lot of influences from "AAA FPS games" like Battlefield and Call of Duty.

If this game played like Battlefield but on a massive scale like they promise then it would be a monster hit. I would be very happy with this. At least I would get to play on an Oceanic server.

ChipMHazard

2012-07-08, 06:38 AM

I haven't heard anything about regenerating health... where did you get that?
All I saw was regenerating shield

And concerning squad spawn:
it will work like HART shuttle drop in PS1. You will be dropped from the skies roughly where your squad leader is located.

That's hardly comparable to BF3

You can see the health regen in action in the E3 day 1 part 3 footage.
Planetside 2 E3 Stream - Day 1 - Part 3 (feat. Totalbiscuit and Adam Clegg) - YouTube
For example go to 8:10.

NoDachi

2012-07-08, 08:08 AM

Both shields and health regens. But health regen is rather slow.

TAA

2012-07-08, 09:50 AM

You can see the health regen in action in the E3 day 1 part 3 footage.
Planetside 2 E3 Stream - Day 1 - Part 3 (feat. Totalbiscuit and Adam Clegg) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_OT4UHXelU&feature=plcp)
For example go to 8:10.

Nicely spotted!

NoDachi

2012-07-08, 10:05 AM

How can that be nicely spotted?

It's painfully obvious for anyone who bothered to watch the e3 steams.

haticK

2012-07-08, 10:44 AM

The only thing I could care less about is quick knifing. I can't stand it in games like CoD where if you come around a corner and theres an enemy whoever happens to press the knife button faster gets the kill. I would prefer it to be like what Counter-Strike knifing is like. You switch to a knife and it takes multiple stabs except when you stab in the back.

Littleman

2012-07-08, 11:21 AM

How can that be nicely spotted?

It's painfully obvious for anyone who bothered to watch the e3 steams.

Not really. Most people's eyes are all over the screen where the action is happening, not fixated on the health bar. If we were actually playing and not simply watching a video, that might have made a difference in what we were paying attention to.

Plus, people typically only watched each stream once.

NoDachi

2012-07-08, 11:44 AM

Not really. Most people's eyes are all over the screen where the action is happening, not fixated on the health bar. If we were actually playing and not simply watching a video, that might have made a difference in what we were paying attention to.

Plus, people typically only watched each stream once.

Maybe you're right.

I forgot I watched all the streams twice :/

GreatMazinkaise

2012-07-08, 12:08 PM

That health regen might be an implant...

Buggsy

2012-07-08, 07:59 PM

I'm told they said we'll have regenerating shields.

If health regenerates too, Medics will still be useful for Reviving and maybe getting your health (if health is a significant part of your durability) back up quicker. If your squad has a medic, and the other squad doesn't, your guns dropping off the line to "regen" will be away for shorter times than the opposition's, so your average total firepower output will be greater.

Edit: Oh, and "TTK" is just a shorthand way of describing how toon robustness compares to firepower.

Oh goody, Battlefield 2 style of revive.

*OOMPH* dang I just died

*revive*

1 second later

*OOOMPH* dang I just died again

*revive*

1 second later

*OOOMPH*

"stop reviving me"

"But I'm getting great experience points"

*revive*

*suicide*

Accuser

2012-07-08, 08:00 PM

That health regen might be an implant...

Please oh please oh please let it be an implant. Shield regen is enough, none of this "oh my leg's blown off and there are no medics, let me hide until it feels better" crap.

DownloadFailed

2012-07-08, 11:04 PM

Please oh please oh please let it be an implant. Shield regen is enough, none of this "oh my leg's blown off and there are no medics, let me hide until it feels better" crap.

Agreed. I don't think this game would at all benefit from regening health for just anyone. And even if it was an implant, it should regen health MUCH more slowly than what was shown in the linked E3 video.
Regarding the drop-pod spawning system, I wonder what would happen if you selected to spawn on a squad mate that was inside a building. I guess you would land on the roof. That could potentially be useful, if there are high-up targets...

P.S. thanks for the replies, everyone. Can't say I'm much more at ease, but at least the squad spawning isn't HORRIBLE and there may still be hope for only shields regenerating.

Redshift

2012-07-09, 04:00 AM

Aye, personally I hope they remove health regen and instead look into alternative means to restore health. Medics, medlabs, certable health regen packs. But we'll see just how it plays out come beta.

Health regen is very slow, takes 45 seconds to even kick in, medics will be far far far faster at topping a squad up and thus will greatly affect the combat effectivness of a squad

ChipMHazard

2012-07-09, 05:17 AM

Health regen is very slow, takes 45 seconds to even kick in, medics will be far far far faster at topping a squad up and thus will greatly affect the combat effectivness of a squad

Taking the example at 8:10. He get's wounded at 7:50 and starts healing at 8:15-16 so it's not 45 seconds. :p
Doesn't seem to take more than relatively few seconds, around 8 seconds, before he healed up fully, after the regen starts.
You won't of course be able to rely on the regen in a firefight, even if you get the regen to kick in. I'm pretty sure it's meant to keep players battle ready between fights.
I think this could be facilitated almost as easily by having med labs, implants?, certable healing item or getting healed up by a medic.

I could see the regen presenting a problem when trying to handle a spec ops, or whatever one wants to call them, team trying to take one of your bases behind the lines. You won't be able to wear them down as easily as if there wasn't an automatic health regen.

It should be noted that we don't know if they have tweaked health regen after E3. So it's just one more thing to test in beta.

Redshift

2012-07-09, 06:44 AM

Taking the example at 8:10. He get's wounded at 7:50 and starts healing at 8:15-16 so it's not 45 seconds. :p

Yea sorry 45 secs is the number we were using in the MAX thread, still at 25 seconds or 35+ for a full heal a medic will massivly increase your uptime

TeaLeaf

2012-07-09, 07:06 AM

Baneblade

2012-07-09, 10:49 AM

Health regen is in mainly for the sake of Infiltrators and other generally solo types. It can't compete with a medic and it never should.

Accuser

2012-07-09, 08:47 PM

I hope PS2 goes backwards 10 years in terms of gunplay with nearly 100% hipfire accuracy even while moving and low weapon damage. I'm actually deadly serious, modern FPS are so boring due to the lack of any real skill requirement.

Nope.
Reaction time is just as interesting of a skill as accuracy, when applied to a strategic goal :) But if you like, you could put a red-dot sight on a Bolt Driver and walk around headshotting everyone with your amazing accuracy! Or would that be too much of a skill requirement? :groovy:

ChipMHazard

2012-07-10, 08:11 AM

Seems like health regen has been removed, or at the very least wasn't in the build that Higby streamed yesterday.

MacXXcaM

2012-07-10, 08:33 AM

I hope PS2 goes backwards 10 years in terms of gunplay with nearly 100% hipfire accuracy even while moving and low weapon damage. I'm actually deadly serious, modern FPS are so boring due to the lack of any real skill requirement.

Well, I deeply hope they do not :P
It's not exactly a tribes/quake style game. PS1 wasn't either.

Ivam Akorahil

2012-07-10, 09:17 AM

Regenerating health does make medics somewhat superfluous... but the rest is good. Squad spawning will be limited, but keep your team together. And the low TTK will make infantry combat FAR more fun than in PS1. Imagine it... you could be the first to push into an enemy base and actually be able to get a kill!

from what ive seen isnt it only the personal shield that regens? i didnt not spot hp regeneration in any video

ChipMHazard

2012-07-10, 09:38 AM

from what ive seen isnt it only the personal shield that regens? i didnt not spot hp regeneration in any video

Check the example on the first page, there was health regen. However that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Timithos

2012-07-10, 07:04 PM

Oh, and "TTK" is just a shorthand way of describing how toon robustness compares to firepower.

What does that mean exactly? And what do the letters stand for?

I'm hoping the health regeneration is there, but really, really slow. And even the really, really slow regen needs it's first cert.

They did mention at E3 that the characters had many certs opened up, so that may be why there was substantial health regen.

Edit:

I know PS2 will greatly surpass the FPS, partly due to my experience and understanding of PS1. So it will go way beyond the few things the poster mentioned, not just "stray". One thing comes to mind is missions. Eventually, we'll be able to create missions that reward experience to do things that are tactically necessary, that you can't necessarily influence people to do all the time. It's great if you're that top 10% leader who has charisma, magnetism and influence that can get many people follow you. But custom mission creation evens the playing field a bit more. Maybe the "zerg" want to take such-and-such a facility, but you realize that an adjacent sector has the resources that would really tip the scales of the battle. So what do we do in PS1? Scream "guys, guys, guys over here!" Just one simple mission could turn the tide of the battle somewhere else on the frontline with "just the right" amount and type of forces, without disrupting major battles and causing total loss.

GreatMazinkaise

2012-07-10, 09:18 PM

TTK is shorthand for Time To Kill, or the time it takes to drop an enemy from start to finish. PS1 has rather long TTK made longer by the REXO buff (Agiles are dropped pretty quickly), whereas the modern fad favors lightning quick TTKs under a second (Call of Duty apparently has notoriously low TTK).

Reizod

2012-07-10, 10:10 PM

Check the example on the first page, there was health regen. However that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Well, it could just be he wasn't using a loadout (new) that had an implant for health regen maybe? I'm curious now... and hope that there is NOT such an implant in PS2 final. :confused:

Exmortius

2012-07-11, 02:08 PM

looks like a cross of bad company 2 meets halo, kill times appear to be in bout the middle of the 2. bc2 had uber quick ttk halo is longer. so i think they probably have a happy medium established. it's basically a more modern fps and more polished version of planetside. the true test will be how effective sniping is and how tough HA will be to take down for the other classes. if they find a good happy medium on HA and vehicles it should be slightly above average ttk compared to other fps but still in the ballpark.

TheSaltySeagull

2012-07-11, 02:31 PM

The health regen in the E3 vid was most likely something specific to hat build to help players out such as vehicles costing no resources and maxes being able to drive vehicles etc. People forget the E3 build was designed to show off the game and is not the actual build being used and that you have to take everything you see in it with a grain of salt.

VaderShake

2012-07-11, 03:56 PM

I hope health regen is not in, there was nothing more nerver racking than having a sliver of life in BF2 and trying to reach your medic or stay alive, then again when you had low health that meant you drew the short straw to run out first guns blazing or be a distraction so others could escape or flank.

To put it another way..

Health regen mitigates your emotional involvement in the game where you almost feel invicible or that you can just stop and be back to 100%, no pressure, no sweat.

When your injured and low health the blood starts pumping, you have to think differently about what to do next vs. being 100%.

This is one of the major flaws with BF3, they removed the emotional roller coaster the previous BF games had.

OhFiddlesticks

2012-07-11, 07:13 PM

In Higby's most recent stream of Planetside 2, there was not health regen.

Ninjacalypse

2012-07-12, 07:24 AM

ChipMHazard

2012-07-12, 06:00 PM

I get the impression that PS2 will be more like an arcade shooter or standard console like FPS, less like a game like Battlfield 3 in terms of when it comes down to aiming, shooting, bullet physics, etc.

Is that right, half-right or off entirely?

The game will be more like BF3 when taking your comparison into account. PS2 has ADS and bullet physics. From what I've seen there won't be any hitscan weapons.
Will it share the other features that define modern FPS'? Who knows.
What do you mean by arcade shooter? Because that term makes me think of the old arcade games where you used a toy gun to shoot at the screen, or overhead shoot'em ups.

But in short we don't know how it's going to play, before we actually get to play it:D

Ninjacalypse

2012-07-12, 07:07 PM

The game will be more like BF3 when taking your comparison into account. PS2 has ADS and bullet physics. From what I've seen there won't be any hitscan weapons.
Will it share the other features that define modern FPS'? Who knows.
What do you mean by arcade shooter? Because that term makes me think of the old arcade games where you used a toy gun to shoot at the screen, or overhead shoot'em ups.

But in short we don't know how it's going to play, before we actually get to play it:D

When I say Arcade Shooter I mean something more along the lines of (albeit crappy) F2P games like WarRock, Combat Arms, Gunz and similar console games in that vein.

Whereas games like BF2/2142/3 require more precision accuracy than games like say Halo for instance which while fun undeniably requires a lot less skill to play.

Accuser

2012-07-13, 02:26 AM

When I say Arcade Shooter I mean something more along the lines of (albeit crappy) F2P games like WarRock, Combat Arms, Gunz and similar console games in that vein.

Whereas games like BF2/2142/3 require more precision accuracy than games like say Halo for instance which while fun undeniably requires a lot less skill to play.

Actually, I was just thinking that most of the weapons shown at E3 were pretty accurate, both ADS and from the hip. That makes it a lot less "spray-and-pray" than some other situations. Though I think their goal is to make it so customizable that you can have your "BF2/2142/BF3" experience while someone else can have their "Combat Arms/Gunz" experience.

Though having played BF2/2142/BF3, Halo and Combat Arms, I'm still not sure what you mean. Would you say that hardcore mode in BF3 "requires a lot less skill to play"? Because I get the impression that you believe accuracy is the only skill that matters.

Ninjacalypse

2012-07-13, 04:05 AM

No, of course accuracy isn't the only thing that matters and not every aspect of gameplay will rely on gun accuracy. It's more important for Infantry on the ground.

I'm just wondering how the game will play in that aspect, if things like accuracy, spread, recoil will be a major factor with infantry weapons.

As far as BF3 hardcore mode aka "Teamkill Mode" I rarely play it mostly because it's usually half or more of your team camping at spawn waiting for a jet/heli/mobile aa and then killing whoever gets one of them.

Accuser

2012-07-13, 06:08 AM

As far as BF3 hardcore mode aka "Teamkill Mode" I rarely play it mostly because it's usually half or more of your team camping at spawn waiting for a jet/heli/mobile aa and then killing whoever gets one of them.

On a related note, I can't f*cking wait to finally be back in a FPS with friendly fire on. There are NO BF3 hardcore servers in Asia QQ It's constant bulletspam... everywhere... all the time. You honestly die faster a lot of the time because 3 enemies in a hallway are emptying their clips into each other's backs and over each other's shoulders trying to hit you! Short TTK + Friendly Fire = you damn well better coordinate with your team!

Ninjacalypse

2012-07-13, 06:24 AM

On a related note, I can't f*cking wait to finally be back in a FPS with friendly fire on. There are NO BF3 hardcore servers in Asia QQ It's constant bulletspam... everywhere... all the time. You honestly die faster a lot of the time because 3 enemies in a hallway are emptying their clips into each other's backs and over each other's shoulders trying to hit you! Short TTK + Friendly Fire = you damn well better coordinate with your team!

Yeah, Friendly Fire is an acquired skill but the problem with BF3 Hardcore Mode is your teammates are usually INTENTIONALLY trying to kill you.

So, PS2 will have friendly fire...and will be free2play? I would be worried about massive waves of teamkillers inbound.

ChipMHazard

2012-07-13, 01:01 PM

Yeah, Friendly Fire is an acquired skill but the problem with BF3 Hardcore Mode is your teammates are usually INTENTIONALLY trying to kill you.

So, PS2 will have friendly fire...and will be free2play? I would be worried about massive waves of teamkillers inbound.

They will have an anti-grief system in place to prevent intentional teamkilling.

Baneblade

2012-07-13, 01:09 PM

They will have a grief system in place to reduce intentional teamkilling.

I TK in PS all the time, not always intentionally, but sometimes teammates just need killin.

ChipMHazard

2012-07-13, 01:58 PM

I TK in PS all the time, not always intentionally, but sometimes teammates just need killin.

Hehe well I can't argue with that, many a times I have wanted to remove some asinine friendly. (Although I think others have wanted to do the same to me)
Sometimes those on your team prove to be a worse enemy than your enemies:D

Rodel

2012-07-13, 02:39 PM

Replying at the risk of not reading anyones posts:

When you play PS you realize that its is the only war game ever made and everything else you've ever played was merely scenarios and firefights. I was astounded in PS1 when all the sudden I was playing and commanding my outfit better because I started applying lessons I learned from an advanced military history class I was taking at the time. This is something really special E3 only gave you a glimps;)