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Old 2012-04-14, 11:28 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
Baneblade
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Re: A brief history on Dutch influence on America


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Sobekeus, the problem is 1. that it's only some of you (I'd say 1 in 15). This may surprise some Americans (it actually would, sadly), but politics, different policies and philosophy are a worldwide thing. American domestic issues are simply examples of implementation of one philosophy, approach or doctrine compared to others and what's so typical is that Americans tend to dismiss others without knowing why.
True, to a point. However that are certain specific things that are not even on the table for discussion as far as most of us are concerned... such as private gun ownership. A disarmed society is a powerless society. It has been proven throughout history too many times to be refuted.

It's like people dismissing a good tv-show with ace acting, simply because it's not in english and therefore "cannot be quality". The utter retardness of the argument is what brings people like me, Canadians and others to indicate they're not backwards and typically even more advanced in certain areas.
Some of my favorite TV shows and movies were never made or even dubbed in English, but I understand your point. I do think your example is flawed to a point, since entertainment is invariably designed to entertain a specific target audience and not the entire world. It is a rare thing for a movie and even rarer a TV show to transcend that.

So this thread is not about 'Dutch Pride', I understand how it may seem that way, but it's more a historical lecture to, well, teach the ignorant a lesson.
But the entire exercise is pointless. It won't educate anyone and it just serves as a way for people to write your opinions off. I've been in your position before, on different topics for different reasons, and it is invariably a waste of time. All you can do is stick to your guns and eventually command respect for it.

I simply take issue with the rose teinted goggles that certain people use here. These people claimed on several occassions things about foreigners and countries that are simply not true.
Well the truth is relative. You can't change that. Refute, Debate, and Accept the result. Ignorance is a voluntary thing, you can't force people to learn something new, especially if it changes their world view.

For instance, when we look at wealth, Malorn will tell you the US is the wealthiest nation in the world. On a nominal GDP level, it's right behind the EU indeed, but the EU is not a country, so that's not entirely fair. So yes, the US is the biggest consumer economy in the world on a country by country basis. That doesn't make it the wealthiest though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...al)_per_capita
I would say that the US is one of the poorest countries in the world to be honest. People get stuck on how much we make, but forget that the vast majority of American buying power is debt based. I've met homeless people with a higher net worth than myself even though I have a car and a home.

For on a per capita level, it's behind much smaller nations (only 15th), where a lot of European countries are well, well ahead of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...al)_per_capita
Indeed. However, we do have a lot of new population being included in that statistic that shouldn't be.

The same is true for a lot of other statistics that people like Malorn do not wish to see, since it does not conform with their worldview that the USA is top at everything.
When it comes to literally, we are on top. But our position is precarious and in the next decade or two can easily completely reverse.

Saying the Netherlands is wealthier for instance is not pride, this is fact. In fact, Canada is wealthier. ZOMGNOES.
And wealth on paper is different than wealth in fact. Taxes and class division affect a lot of things.

Yes, Denmark > USA in a lot of things. Is that "Dutch Pride"? Is it "Dutch Pride" to look at Luxembourg, a completely different country (as is Denmark btw) and objectively state it rates better than the USA in a lot of fundamental and important areas? (Energy, housing, wealth, security, etc). The only ones basing their argument on pride in these forums, are very specific Americans who claim that any disagreeing has to be based in jealosy. How can we be jealous on a nation that has less than we have and worse happiness ratings, worse crime ratings, etc? The argument is simply dumb and trolling.
I for one am well aware of the US's position in the world stage, which is why I'm for Ron Paul. The current course will just drive us into the dirt.

If an American wants to compare country-peens, he's in for a rough ride. If an American wants to claim that more social countries do not use or understand capitalism, do not know what freedoms are or makes other stupid remarks, this person is simply an ignorant fool.
It's about priorities. To many (most) Americans, freedom is the paramount quality. We would rather be disadvantaged than subservient. And we paint our opinions based on that aspect: How much freedom will it cost me?

This thread is aimed at putting these specific Americans in their place, when they want to argue another nation is irrelevant. Even a country such as the Netherlands over the past 6 centuries has made a HUGE impact and difference in the world.
It won't work, for exactly the same reason you want to do it.

If you want, I could make a similar thread or post about the French influence (another often ridiculed country) and would gladly do so. Nothing to do with pride, everything to do with correcting false claims.
Americans aren't the only nation to stereotype on false assumptions, it's a world wide sport.

Not really, I do not tell people based on geography to butt out of politics or philosophical debate on the internet, just because they monopolise the issue by presuming it's a national topic.
Americans are territorial, and I mean very territorial. How else could something like Castle Doctrine exist and actually be spreading? So when an 'outsider' comes in and starts discussing American social and political issues, we tend to unite in the 'get lost' angle. It isn't because we don't think you have something to add, it is because we tend to believe we already know what you will say, why you will say it, and what will happen when you do. Americans are used to defending the things we consider basic freedoms from non Americans on the internet. So we react negatively by instinct. It's a learned behaviour.
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