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Old 2012-05-08, 10:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #226
Raka Maru
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This desert cammo really blends me in with the rocks of ish.

*KA-chack KA-chack KA-chack*

LOLZ, saw you a mile away you NOOOB! Learn to turn off skinz DOOOD!

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Old 2012-05-09, 08:11 AM   [Ignore Me] #227
Xyntech
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm View Post
What are you talking about? Why would it necessarily be more difficult? It would be handled through a similar system to the way people find them to buy and use them. Either an in-game menu that shows all potential skins whether you own them or not, what you need to do to unlock or buy them, and offers a checkbox that you can click to hide the skin if you purchase the capability to do so. So, if you can find it to use or buy it, you can hide it.
That just seems like a lot of work to be going and looking for every cosmetic you don't like in the store and toggling them off. What if you don't like any camo? Do you go through and disable each one individually? Like I said, most players wouldn't be that anal, so it seems like kind of a waste.

Then on the flipside, if they provided features that made it easier to disable specific groups, like being able to search for "camo" and then "select all" and then "disable viewing selected items," we would be right back to the problem of devaluing the cosmetics.

As money grubbing as it may sound, the best solution to this would probably be to only allow a person who has purchased x cosmetic to disable seeing it. That way, at least it would limit the number of people who would be disabling it a little, you would be picking and choosing which ones you really hated, and the game would still be getting funded.

If you don't mind the idea of a subscription, but hate cosmetic items, you could just put away $10 a month to spend on disabling your least favorite cosmetics and consider it your subscription price.

If you do mind the idea of a subscription cost, then you really have no place to complain about how the game makes money.
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Old 2012-05-09, 08:57 AM   [Ignore Me] #228
IronMole
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Re: Customization Woes


Buying aesthetics such as camouflage is no way an advantage as to buying "power" upgrades/weapons.

Being able to disable such a thing (camouflage) is...
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Old 2012-05-09, 12:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #229
laelgon
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by IronMole View Post
Buying aesthetics such as camouflage is no way an advantage as to buying "power" upgrades/weapons.

Being able to disable such a thing (camouflage) is...
I'm not following the logic on that one. If purchasable camouflage isn't providing an advantage, how is turning of camouflage an advantage. That would seem to indicate that camouflage is providing some edge in combat. This is assuming camouflage patterns actually made you less visible, unlike in most games where they accomplish absolutely nothing.
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Old 2012-05-09, 02:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #230
Sledgecrushr
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Re: Customization Woes


Of course camouflage is an advantage. It is marginal at best. But whats all this camouflage talk. Camouflage is lame and we need bad ass ideas on cosmetic skins they can sell to us.
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Old 2012-05-09, 03:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #231
kaffis
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by Pyreal View Post
"If I pay money for camouflage everyone one else damn well better see it!"

How can the store legitimately offer a cosmetic upgrade like camo when every other player can simply check a box to disable it?

Also, camo has tactical value, not just cosmetic.
This is the reason for my concerns over camo.

If the camouflage is at all useful and "realistic" (i.e., appropriate colors are offered for different terrains and continents to affect visibility), it's a Pay for Advantage feature. If it's not at all useful and "realistic," it's "silly."

I like neither option.

I'd love to see a variety of different designs that heavily feature the primary and secondary empire colors as the predominant colors of the skins. Different patterns of blue and gold, black and red, and purple and teal are (mostly -- TR runs into some problems if there isn't "enough" red on it, since black is a big concealment advantage at night) fine and difficult to argue against, because they're in keeping with the uniform themes established in Planetside, and are all of the very blatant "we stand out so you see us coming" sci-fi vibe that usually grounds itself in "honorable combat" or having sensors so good that visual camo is pointless, or whatever.

I suppose that's another option: An optional "predator view" or "infrared goggles" graphics setting that masks all custom skins with faux heat signatures overlaid with Friend or Foe UI elements. Alternately, you know, we could have 3D spotting in the UI.

Funny how the same guys who don't want us to be able to turn off their camo skins (or wouldn't buy camo skins if we COULD turn them off) seem to be some of the vocal opponents of 3D spotting. You don't think they want to pay to win, do you?
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Old 2012-05-09, 03:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #232
Toppopia
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Re: Customization Woes


I thought i said this somewhere but i can't find my post.

If we can buy camouflage that lets us blend in to our surroundings, it won't give us more than a 20% advantage over someone, because once we shoot, we will be found pretty quickly and most of the time camo is made poorly so we can't even hide. So having camo in this game won't give you an advantage, it will just make you look that much cooler.
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Old 2012-05-09, 03:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #233
Toppopia
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by kaffis View Post
This is the reason for my concerns over camo.

If the camouflage is at all useful and "realistic" (i.e., appropriate colors are offered for different terrains and continents to affect visibility), it's a Pay for Advantage feature. If it's not at all useful and "realistic," it's "silly."

I like neither option.

I'd love to see a variety of different designs that heavily feature the primary and secondary empire colors as the predominant colors of the skins. Different patterns of blue and gold, black and red, and purple and teal are (mostly -- TR runs into some problems if there isn't "enough" red on it, since black is a big concealment advantage at night) fine and difficult to argue against, because they're in keeping with the uniform themes established in Planetside, and are all of the very blatant "we stand out so you see us coming" sci-fi vibe that usually grounds itself in "honorable combat" or having sensors so good that visual camo is pointless, or whatever.

I suppose that's another option: An optional "predator view" or "infrared goggles" graphics setting that masks all custom skins with faux heat signatures overlaid with Friend or Foe UI elements. Alternately, you know, we could have 3D spotting in the UI.

Funny how the same guys who don't want us to be able to turn off their camo skins (or wouldn't buy camo skins if we COULD turn them off) seem to be some of the vocal opponents of 3D spotting. You don't think they want to pay to win, do you?
Actually depending on the night, NC would be better hidden because the night scene Higby showed was blue, not black, so in those instances which is most of the time, NC will be most hidden.
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Old 2012-05-09, 03:34 PM   [Ignore Me] #234
LostAlgorithm
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by Toppopia View Post
I thought i said this somewhere but i can't find my post.

If we can buy camouflage that lets us blend in to our surroundings, it won't give us more than a 20% advantage over someone, because once we shoot, we will be found pretty quickly and most of the time camo is made poorly so we can't even hide. So having camo in this game won't give you an advantage, it will just make you look that much cooler.
So then people shouldn't be using it as an example of how an option to hide certain skins would be so horrifically unfair to them.
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Old 2012-05-09, 03:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #235
Toppopia
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm View Post
So then people shouldn't be using it as an example of how an option to hide certain skins would be so horrifically unfair to them.
What i'm saying is that there should be 2 customisation themes.

1) This theme is the theme everyone sees and is not over the top and fits in with Planetside, like choosing from a certain variety of colors for your empire.

2) This theme contains crazy stuff that people can turn off and is solely for the pleasure of the person using it.

So camo should fit into theme 1 because it fits with the Planetside theme.
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Old 2012-05-09, 09:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #236
Raka Maru
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Originally Posted by kaffis View Post
This is the reason for my concerns over camo.

If the camouflage is at all useful and "realistic" (i.e., appropriate colors are offered for different terrains and continents to affect visibility), it's a Pay for Advantage feature. If it's not at all useful and "realistic," it's "silly."

I like neither option.

I'd love to see a variety of different designs that heavily feature the primary and secondary empire colors as the predominant colors of the skins. Different patterns of blue and gold, black and red, and purple and teal are (mostly -- TR runs into some problems if there isn't "enough" red on it, since black is a big concealment advantage at night) fine and difficult to argue against, because they're in keeping with the uniform themes established in Planetside, and are all of the very blatant "we stand out so you see us coming" sci-fi vibe that usually grounds itself in "honorable combat" or having sensors so good that visual camo is pointless, or whatever.

I suppose that's another option: An optional "predator view" or "infrared goggles" graphics setting that masks all custom skins with faux heat signatures overlaid with Friend or Foe UI elements. Alternately, you know, we could have 3D spotting in the UI.

Funny how the same guys who don't want us to be able to turn off their camo skins (or wouldn't buy camo skins if we COULD turn them off) seem to be some of the vocal opponents of 3D spotting. You don't think they want to pay to win, do you?
Paying for camo for the terrain of your choice is not the same as purchasing the BFG that also releases auto repair nanos.

For this logic are you saying that all camo should be free? I'm telling you that I wouldn't mind that at all either, but SOE has to sell something in the cash shop and if it's not camo or outlandish, then what is it?

Thinking like a dev, I know camo can give some advantages in blending in, but it's cooler (to some) than the regular ES specific armor. Not too much of an advantage, but people buy it and the game gets funded, SOE makes money, the team gets a raise... Etc.

What's wrong with that? Pay the $2.50 or whatever if you are so concerned. The rest of the game is FTP.

Turning off the ability for skins purchased? I don't see that happening in this business model. You will be ignored because it doesn't make sense to shoot yourself in the foot.
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Old 2012-05-09, 10:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #237
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by Raka Maru View Post
Paying for camo for the terrain of your choice is not the same as purchasing the BFG that also releases auto repair nanos.

For this logic are you saying that all camo should be free? I'm telling you that I wouldn't mind that at all either, but SOE has to sell something in the cash shop and if it's not camo or outlandish, then what is it?

Thinking like a dev, I know camo can give some advantages in blending in, but it's cooler (to some) than the regular ES specific armor. Not too much of an advantage, but people buy it and the game gets funded, SOE makes money, the team gets a raise... Etc.
What's wrong with that? Pay the $2.50 or whatever if you are so concerned. The rest of the game is FTP.
Turning off the ability for skins purchased? I don't see that happening in this business model. You will be ignored because it doesn't make sense to shoot yourself in the foot.
This is free to play brothers, on the flip side nothing is really ever free. So you will see everything we have posted about before this and much more. Enjoy the combat, the great camaraderie that is sure to come, but please dont get too irritated about the skins. The skins are going to pay for this experience. If you want pure planetside, there are still PS1 servers working. Buy a subscription and play some pure planetside
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Old 2012-05-09, 10:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #238
Toppopia
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr View Post
This is free to play brothers, on the flip side nothing is really ever free. So you will see everything we have posted about before this and much more. Enjoy the combat, the great camaraderie that is sure to come, but please dont get too irritated about the skins. The skins are going to pay for this experience. If you want pure planetside, there are still PS1 servers working. Buy a subscription and play some pure planetside
Not to mention all the internet costs and stuff, the only way this can be truly free to play is if you "borrow" your neighbours internet by knowing their router password. So all in all, this game isn't free
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Old 2012-05-09, 11:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #239
LostAlgorithm
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr View Post
This is free to play brothers, on the flip side nothing is really ever free. So you will see everything we have posted about before this and much more. Enjoy the combat, the great camaraderie that is sure to come, but please dont get too irritated about the skins. The skins are going to pay for this experience. If you want pure planetside, there are still PS1 servers working. Buy a subscription and play some pure planetside
Just because something is free doesn't mean it shouldn't have standards. I can understand that we disagree on those standards, but I don't think it's a very fair argument for either side to ask the other to go back to the original Planetside. It's basically just a very PC way of saying STFU & GTFO.
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Old 2012-05-10, 01:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #240
Xyntech
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm View Post
Just because something is free doesn't mean it shouldn't have standards. I can understand that we disagree on those standards, but I don't think it's a very fair argument for either side to ask the other to go back to the original Planetside. It's basically just a very PC way of saying STFU & GTFO.
There are players who will never be happy with Planetside 2 unless it is pretty much a carbon copy of the original game, which would flop and not return any of SOE's investment, so that's never going to happen. So while it may be a bit of a nice way of saying STFU and GTFO, at some point people have to decide if they are okay with the things that are never going to change about PS2 (like F2P), or if they have to give up on it and go play something else.

PS2 is a modern take on Planetside, so if a player wants something more old school, why wouldn't they just go play PS1?
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