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Old 2012-05-06, 02:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #76
Mechzz
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Re: Customization Woes


This may be getting a bit overwrought, brought on by a lack of BETA!

I haven't seen any evidence that really weird stuff will be available in the shop.

Sure, there are players saying they want that. But I have confidence that SOE will stick to a "Planetside style" for the camos, gun sights, etc. we'll be able to buy.

My own guess is that the worst we might get is along the lines of a "skull-face" mask for an infil or some such. Apart from that, everything will be in the safe pseudo-standard military style we know and expect in PS.
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Old 2012-05-06, 02:34 AM   [Ignore Me] #77
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by Mechzz View Post
This may be getting a bit overwrought, brought on by a lack of BETA!

I haven't seen any evidence that really weird stuff will be available in the shop.

Sure, there are players saying they want that. But I have confidence that SOE will stick to a "Planetside style" for the camos, gun sights, etc. we'll be able to buy.

My own guess is that the worst we might get is along the lines of a "skull-face" mask for an infil or some such. Apart from that, everything will be in the safe pseudo-standard military style we know and expect in PS.
I'd still like the option to hide even just camo, since as I've said it doesn't feel very Planetsidey to me. Empire colors is where it's at. Having everyone be so individualized takes away from things a bit in my opinion.
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Old 2012-05-06, 02:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #78
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm View Post
I'd still like the option to hide even just camo, since as I've said it doesn't feel very Planetsidey to me. Empire colors is where it's at. Having everyone be so individualized takes away from things a bit in my opinion.
If everyone in your platoon is wearing different camo then yes, I agree, that's not the same feeling compared to them all looking identical. Less feeling of being a team. However, given that selling camo is a mainstay of the economics of the game then it's gonna happen.

I have no idea from a technical perspective how hard it would be to have an "ignore player appearance customisation" option, but my guess would be that it would greatly increase the computation load since the server would have to check for everyone who can see a given camo if they wanted to actually see it or not then change the displayed frame accordingly.

So I'm afraid we'll have to put up with snow camo on Indar and tiger-skin camo on the cold continent.

It won't be the end of the world, though, as Higby said early on that preserving the silhouette of a class is important, so once we're outside close-range draw distance all will look good, and we'll be able to recognise friend from foe at least.
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Old 2012-05-06, 03:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #79
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by Mechzz View Post
If everyone in your platoon is wearing different camo then yes, I agree, that's not the same feeling compared to them all looking identical. Less feeling of being a team. However, given that selling camo is a mainstay of the economics of the game then it's gonna happen.
I'm not arguing against it happening, I'm simply saying that we should have even more options. Options which I am absolutely willing to pay for to help make them more economically viable.

I have no idea from a technical perspective how hard it would be to have an "ignore player appearance customisation" option, but my guess would be that it would greatly increase the computation load since the server would have to check for everyone who can see a given camo if they wanted to actually see it or not then change the displayed frame accordingly.
No offense, but if you honestly have no idea from a technical perspective on these matters then you really shouldn't be making guesses such as that. I'll admit my lack of knowledge about how it would affect things as well and, rather than try to come up with an an admittedly ignorant counter-perspective on it, I'll just leave it at that.

It's not up to me to decide if it's possible, just to put the idea out there. The only ones who know how Forge Light and the servers would be able handle it is the developers, so lets leave the debate on the technical possibilities up to them, alright?

Sorry, but it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people mention things outside the scope of their perspective as if it could be a fact.

It won't be the end of the world, though, as Higby said early on that preserving the silhouette of a class is important, so once we're outside close-range draw distance all will look good, and we'll be able to recognise friend from foe at least.
Not saying it'll be the end of the world, just that I feel a certain bit of what made Planetside what it was will feel gone to me, and I'd like to have the option to reclaim that.

Last edited by LostAlgorithm; 2012-05-06 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 2012-05-06, 04:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #80
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm View Post
I'm not arguing against it happening, I'm simply saying that we should have even more options. Options which I am absolutely willing to pay for to help make them more economically viable.



No offense, but if you honestly have no idea from a technical perspective on these matters then you really shouldn't be making guesses such as that. I'll admit my lack of knowledge about how it would affect things as well and, rather than try to come up with an an admittedly ignorant counter-perspective on it, I'll just leave it at that.

It's not up to me to decide if it's possible, just to put the idea out there. The only ones who know how Forge Light and the servers would be able handle it is the developers, so lets leave the debate on the technical possibilities up to them, alright?

Sorry, but it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people mention things outside the scope of their perspective as if it could be a fact.



Not saying it'll be the end of the world, just that I feel a certain bit of what made Planetside what it was will feel gone to me, and I'd like to have the option to reclaim that.
From a technical perspective it should make no difference IMO, the decision on what will be rendered should be made completely client side. The data describing the character and what skins they might have will still be sent to everyone, but the client will decide what to render based on a simple "show cutomisable skins" setting thats attached to the character/account and can be sent once when a character logs on or updated when a client changes it. Thats the only thing the server should have to deal with.
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Old 2012-05-06, 05:47 AM   [Ignore Me] #81
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For the record, I like to think that I won't buy any customs that aren't in keeping with the theme - because I want the game to look like a proper war too, rather than a punch up in a circus tent.

You argue that many people won't want to see customisations, and then that people opting-out won't have much of an effect, so which is it?

Your request isn't unreasonable but it has to come down to economics. If allowing opt out at least breaks even over time with the sale of custom kit, then fine - but since players buying stuff are likely to do so more than once, it seems at least reasonable that opting out would have to be a recurring cost to offset it. Maybe it can work as a "subscriber only" option.

It's really up to players to stay away from outlandish crap, because you can't blame a profit making organisation for selling what people are willing to buy.

So, say no to clown hats, people!
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Old 2012-05-06, 08:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #82
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
So, say no to clown hats, people!
Remember the holiday hats? That kind of customization is in our future. I'm looking forward to it.

Having a "do not render custom skins" option wouldn't have a very intensive hit on performance. It just doesn't make any economic sense.

Last edited by ArmedZealot; 2012-05-06 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 2012-05-06, 08:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #83
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I like a Santa hat or seasonal tweak - it reminds you that it's a game, and it's meant to be fun. But only for occasional, special events, and not usable all the time.
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Old 2012-05-06, 08:29 AM   [Ignore Me] #84
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
I like a Santa hat or seasonal tweak - it reminds you that it's a game, and it's meant to be fun. But only for occasional, special events, and not usable all the time.
A matter of opinion.

I personally want to have those kinds of things around all the time for those exact reasons.
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Old 2012-05-06, 09:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #85
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Re: Customization Woes


I really dont want to be just another GI joe. I would like for my dudes appearance to evolve over time. If Im going to play this game for several years his look should change over time. Now I dont think having clown feet and a big red nose would be right for this game. But if I want an awesome skull helmet for my max suit I would be very happy to buy it in the cash shop. And they probably should provide hundreds of cool alternative looks inside the cash shop. This is free 2 play and what we have seen is probably what you get for free.

Last edited by Sledgecrushr; 2012-05-06 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 2012-05-06, 10:34 AM   [Ignore Me] #86
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Re: Customization Woes


You argue that many people won't want to see customisations, and then that people opting-out won't have much of an effect, so which is it?
I believe that both can coexist. People have varying tastes. Myself, as someone who largely doesn't care for cosmetic skin customizations, is unlikely to buy more than one or two of them over the lifetime of the game. If I had the option to hide customizations, I'd likely end up spending more money than I would otherwise. And if I'm thinking like that, then there are surely others who would be in a similar situation.

And my ideal implementation isn't to hide customizations across the board, but rather to let players tweak the ones that show up on their screen to their specifications, giving true customization of the game on a whole. Just look at the way skins and textures work for other games, such as Minecraft or any of the Elder Scrolls games. Players love being able to have that control over what they see visually, and I'd wager even a good number of players who like customizations would go a capability that would give them a little bit more.

Buying the option to hide them would add a screen you can access to browse through each of the available customizations and check off which ones you want to hide individually. That way you could still use certain customizations with it while hiding the ones you dislike.

Would the majority of players who like customizations really be up in arms over the fact that not everyone can see their skin? Especially when they paid for the capability to not have to? It just strikes me as a very selfish outlook to have considering.

A matter of opinion.

I personally want to have those kinds of things around all the time for those exact reasons.
And having things around like Santa holiday hats and the like is exactly what I'm trying to avoid for myself. I don't need seasonal tweaks and fun hats to remind me that I'm playing a game. If I wanted to play a game that doesn't take itself fairly seriously and where people run around looking like clowns, I'd go play Team Fortress 2 or Arkham City Impostors.

Now, I can understand that that perhaps isn't a fair comparison as they are very different games than Planetside. That is why I'm pushing for a compromise that would allow both of us to experience the game in the way we'd like.
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Old 2012-05-06, 11:00 AM   [Ignore Me] #87
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm View Post
Would the majority of players who like customizations really be up in arms over the fact that not everyone can see their skin? Especially when they paid for the capability to not have to? It just strikes me as a very selfish outlook to have considering.
It's not so much that players would be up in arms over it, its just why should I buy something that is supposed to make me unique when other players can just force me to look like everyone else? I am more likely to by something for myself that makes me look good to other players, which could be something like an outfit patch to make me look more like my mates, or a set of gleaming golden armor which announces to everyone my great skill in game, or even a mercenary/covert ops skin to let people know that I am a loner and like a solitary play style.

If players have the option of shutting this down, especially veterans who control most outfits and squads, then why should I buy something to have them treat me differently when it could just be ignored by these people?

Yes, it is a selfish way of looking at it, but that's just how the cookie crumbles in the F2P and cosmetic sales in any game.


Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm View Post
And having things around like Santa holiday hats and the like is exactly what I'm trying to avoid for myself. I don't need seasonal tweaks and fun hats to remind me that I'm playing a game. If I wanted to play a game that doesn't take itself fairly seriously and where people run around looking like clowns, I'd go play Team Fortress 2 or Arkham City Impostors.

Now, I can understand that that perhaps isn't a fair comparison as they are very different games than Planetside. That is why I'm pushing for a compromise that would allow both of us to experience the game in the way we'd like.
While it is a compromise it doesn't make sense in the F2P market, and it has a downside for everyone but veterans. For every player that wants the game to be serious business, there is another that couldn't give a fuck and just wants to have fun. As a developer you want to offer solutions that appeal to both, rather than exclusively to one, so that both crowds are potential sales. Our only hope, as players, is that the developers implementing skins see this and don't do things to alienate either audience.

Tribes: Ascend has done a wonderful job so far in implementing skins that fit well within the universe. I've played many games where I have seen players with the new skins as well so they are being bought. However, if they are bought enough to justify their creation is still a question.

But, we as players should keep an open mind since the PS universe isn't exactly fleshed out very well, and saying "X doesn't make sense in the game! It breaks my immersion!" doesn't make much sense, especially in the sci-fi context. For all we know, PS soldiers celebrate Christmas and Halloween every other week or worship entities like ice cream trucks as god's and like to paint their sunderers in homage.

Last edited by ArmedZealot; 2012-05-06 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 2012-05-06, 11:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #88
LostAlgorithm
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by ArmedZealot View Post
It's not so much that players would be up in arms over it, its just why should I buy something that is supposed to make me unique when other players can just force me to look like everyone else? I am more likely to by something for myself that makes me look good to other players. Yes, it is a selfish way of looking at it, but that's just how the cookie crumbles in the F2P and cosmetic sales in any game.
Because there will be other like-minded players who do appreciate the customizations you've chosen who you can show off to. It's all about accommodating players in a variety of ways. You'd buy it because there would still be players who would see your skins, and the majority of the ones who don't you probably wouldn't even know couldn't see it.

While it is a compromise it doesn't make sense in the F2P market. For every player that wants the game to be serious business, there is another that couldn't give a fuck and just wants to have fun. As a developer you want to offer solutions that appeal to both, rather than exclusively to one, so that both crowds are potential sales.
And offering solutions that appeal to both so that both are potential sales is exactly what I'm arguing for. As I've said, I doubt I'll pay for many skins. If I had the option to pay for the ability to hide customizations, and it was quite a bit more expensive than the skins themselves due to being a much further reaching development, I'd likely end up spending more on the game as a result. I'd spend more simply from that one purchase than I likely would have otherwise.

But, we as players should keep an open mind since the PS universe isn't exactly fleshed out very well, and saying "X doesn't make sense in the game! It breaks my immersion!" doesn't make much sense, especially in the sci-fi context.
I'm sorry, but seasonal fun items like Santa hats, as you argued for, won't make sense no matter how you spin it. I can respect that players want that kind of customization for themselves, all I ask is that I have the option to avoid it.
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Old 2012-05-06, 11:24 AM   [Ignore Me] #89
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Re: Customization Woes


Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm View Post
And offering solutions that appeal to both so that both are potential sales is exactly what I'm arguing for. As I've said, I doubt I'll pay for many skins. If I had the option to pay for the ability to hide customizations, and it was quite a bit more expensive than the skins themselves due to being a much further reaching development, I'd likely end up spending more on the game as a result. I'd spend more simply from that one purchase than I likely would have otherwise.
But that isn't what you are saying. You want there to be a market for people that buy from the skin shop, and a market for those that want to ignore those that buy from the skin shop. These are exclusively different markets, and appealing to both means coming up with seperate products for each, rather than products which can be sold to both at the same time.

And while you say you would purchase such things, how can you assure the devs that there is a large enough audience that would do the same to justify taking the time to make such an option.

Last edited by ArmedZealot; 2012-05-06 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 2012-05-06, 11:26 AM   [Ignore Me] #90
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Re: Customization Woes


You're still missing the point ever so slightly - Its not that someone customising their character has an objection to you not wanting to see it, that's absolutely fine.

It's just the knowledge that if that option exists, and its widely used for whatever reason - then it will hurt sales of customisations, because people will be less inclined to pay for what the majority of players are never going to see.

You have to stop looking at it in isolation, as though you wouldn't spend money on customisations, but you'd spend it on turning them off - so that must mean the game is making money from you. Its a group thing - if you spend $10 and that means someone else doesn't spend $20, then you are costing money, not making it, not breaking even.

An effective compromise may be that you have to own every customisation you don't want to see, so if you don't like santa hats, you'd have to buy one to be able to turn it off - but I suspect keeping the game 'pure' would get mighty expensive then!

Last edited by Kipper; 2012-05-06 at 11:28 AM.
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