What scares me most of all. - PlanetSide Universe
PSU Social Facebook Twitter Twitter YouTube Steam TwitchTV
PlanetSide Universe
PSU: Porn Stars United
Home Forum Chat Wiki Social AGN PS2 Stats
Notices
Go Back   PlanetSide Universe > PlanetSide Discussions > PlanetSide 2 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 2011-02-25, 11:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Hamma
PSU Admin
 
Hamma's Avatar
 
What scares me most of all.


So I really try hard to read all of the discussions going on in the forum, sure I miss some here and there but I think I stay on top of it.

And I have to admit, the thing that frightens me most about some conversations is people's desire to become one man armies.

They may or may not admit that, but some of the discussions really make it apparent they want to be able to take on anything with anything else. I am hoping that Sony does not go down that path and TEAM still remains the most important aspect.

I have to think they know this and will not go down the path of solo pwn machines.
__________________

PlanetSide Universe - Administrator / Site Owner - Contact @ PSU
Hamma Time - Evil Ranting Admin - DragonWolves - Commanding Officer
Hamma is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 11:51 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
GoldDragon
Corporal
 
GoldDragon's Avatar
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


I agree there...

I will admit that I like being able to do basically anything I need to but at the same time I recognize that such an ability takes away from overall gameplay. I know that rely on my teammates heavily when they're on, but when it's just me or I'm off on a scouting mission I can still do almost anything I need to without them.

While it would take getting used to, I would definitely like to see more specializations (ie you can only pick on support tree, or vehicle set, etc).
__________________
GoldDragon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 11:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
Wrath
Corporal
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


totally agree people are to used to arcade action games like cod and battlefield where a tank wasnt a treat is was a target for C4. while that was and is fun in those games the appealing nature of planetside to me was always the feeling you where party of something largers you where 1 cog in an army. its the team work that I like and want to see in PS:S not the lone gun rambo type game play you get everywhere else.
Wrath is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 12:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
Rbstr
Contributor
Lieutenant General
 
Rbstr's Avatar
 
Misc Info
Re: What scares me most of all.


The critical thing is the you find a way to keep people from taking tons of hats at once.

For instance, you can't have Rexo with an HA weapon and an AV weapon without more drawbacks than it had before.

It's funny you mention BF as a counter-example. Because, while it does play solo, far more than I'd like planetside to, it does a rather good job at requiring class balance on a team (at least in BC2). Teams that lack people in certain classes or stack a certain class more often than not have a very hard time actually winning. Sure, the assault team full of snipers will have a great KD ratio...but they'll lose in the end because they can't take the base.
__________________

All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.

Last edited by Rbstr; 2011-02-25 at 12:11 PM.
Rbstr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 12:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
Wrath
Corporal
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


it does require any class balance at all and using snipers as an example is rather poor really cause weather it be battlefield or cod or planetside you have a team full of snipers your gonna lose. thats not the game making the balaince its a fact if you dont push for objectives your never gonna take em
Wrath is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 12:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
DviddLeff
Lieutenant Colonel
 
DviddLeff's Avatar
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


Its that squad experience where PS shines.

What I really want is PS2 to not only get that right, but build it up so you get platoons and even companies working together across a combat zone.
__________________
DviddLeff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 12:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
Bags
Lieutenant General
 
Bags's Avatar
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


All I want is a mossie that can hot drop, rexo, HA and AV. They can do whatever else they want with the game, I don't care. I know a lot of my friends will not resub if we were forced to have someone cert galaxy to do anything as a squad.

I'm fine with galaxy zerg-fit play existing, but these playstyles can co-exist without having to remove mine. I don't see why you guys fail to understand "different strokes for different folks".

Originally Posted by Rbstr View Post
For instance, you can't have Rexo with an HA weapon and an AV weapon without more drawbacks than it had before.
Er, there's actually a big drawback. Limited vehicles and limited support certs. I'm not sure how "HA/REXO/AV" is a "ton of hats". That's one god damn loadout good in two - three situations. Indoors and outdoors against infantry.

Last edited by Bags; 2011-02-25 at 12:56 PM.
Bags is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 12:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
DviddLeff
Lieutenant Colonel
 
DviddLeff's Avatar
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


And that is exactly what I want removed for the sake of teamwork.

Edit: not strictly true, but I don't want Mossies to have an AI farming nose gun and I don't want people to bail from a combat aircraft with current HA or AV.
__________________

Last edited by DviddLeff; 2011-02-25 at 12:45 PM.
DviddLeff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 12:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
Bags
Lieutenant General
 
Bags's Avatar
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


Originally Posted by DviddLeff View Post
And that is exactly what I want removed for the sake of teamwork.

Edit: not strictly true, but I don't want Mossies to have an AI farming nose gun and I don't want people to bail from a combat aircraft with current HA or AV.
Well I want plasma and AI maxes removed but unfortunately you don't always get what you want.

I don't understand how you guys have come to the conclusion that grunting and teamwork are mutually exclusive. The best (teamwork oriented) outfits play Hot Drop style (KOTOR, DT, FC, 1CMM) so I really don't see how mossies/HA discourage teamwork. I just don't see how being a powerhouse indoors takes away from teamwork. Even the best players rarely can kill more than 1 GOOD person in the same fight.

It just really sounds like you want the players who are best at fighting indoors nerfed down to your level of play. Other than the mossie, it's fairly easy to kill these so called, "one man armies". Use grenades. Use maxes. Use numbers. Be better than him (except for Chinese players).

What scares me most of all is the chance of PSN ending up where I can't blow my nose without a teammate. (BTW, why didn't you put @ bags instead of "they"? I'm the only person on here who supports grunts)

PS: If I put in my signature, "I DO NOT SUPPORT MOSSIE FARMING INFANTRY WITH THE DEGREE OF EASE WHICH OCCURS NOW", will people stop assuming I support the current mossie's abilities?

Last edited by Bags; 2011-02-25 at 12:54 PM.
Bags is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 12:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
DviddLeff
Lieutenant Colonel
 
DviddLeff's Avatar
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


Its not that the air cav based outfits don't use teamwork, its that the air cav outfits have found the method that works best both outdoors and in and use it.

Vehicle drivers shouldn't be able to jump out and be effective infantry; they should have to find an equipment terminal to change into more appropriate gear.
As it is pilots/drivers use HA/AV and are on a pretty much equal footing with dedicated grunts with Rexo. It makes the transport vehicles all but obsolete as it does any outdoor fight as the air cav can just bypass it with hardly any risk.

Its not about teamwork (yes I said it was before, but I wasn't thinking straight) its about making everything in the game have an effective role.
__________________
DviddLeff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 01:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
Bags
Lieutenant General
 
Bags's Avatar
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


Originally Posted by DviddLeff View Post
Its not that the air cav based outfits don't use teamwork, its that the air cav outfits have found the method that works best both outdoors and in and use it.

Vehicle drivers shouldn't be able to jump out and be effective infantry; they should have to find an equipment terminal to change into more appropriate gear.
As it is pilots/drivers use HA/AV and are on a pretty much equal footing with dedicated grunts with Rexo. It makes the transport vehicles all but obsolete as it does any outdoor fight as the air cav can just bypass it with hardly any risk.

Its not about teamwork (yes I said it was before, but I wasn't thinking straight) its about making everything in the game have an effective role.
I don't support the mossie being able to kill infantry. Why is this point continuously ignored? If everyone in the outfit takes mossie for transport, as opposed to 2 - 3 people certing galaxies, look how many more certs the second outfit has. The first outfit is much more specialized. With BR20/25 you can do grunt loadout(HA/Rexo/Med/Eng/AV), a mossie, and maybe one other cert(if BR25). That's pretty damn specialized. You're a grunt with one transport that can only take you from point A to B.

If you're dying to vehicle drivers who hop out, I don't know what to tell you. They're already in agile. It can be very disorienting to get out of a vehicle, and you should be able to get a few shots of on the driver before he gets his bearings.

Same deal with pilots. They're in agile, you're in rexo. You generally have the home field advantage. (maxes, they have to come to you, more grenades, more medkits, more cover, teammates) Agile itself is a fairly big handicap. The only reason it isn't in planetside currently is due to the bad netcode, the speed agile gives you is enormous. If they can eliminate / greatly reduce warping, I believe agile to be the perfect handicap for being in a vehicle. (Dueling with my non-warping friend when he's in agile and I'm in rexo is a complete joke.)

I'm all for buffing support roles, but they should do it by buffing support and not-nerfing singleplay. Allow galaxies to hold more, give them built in EMP, make them faster, sleeker, whatever. (they also need to make support / tactical play give A LOT more experience. As it stands, five kills in a tower on a planet with 50% incentives are worth more than a five hour interlink base capture) Make advanced medics stronger, make advanced engineers strong. Make vehicles require more gunners to be effective killing machines. Do not completely nerf solo-play. Planetside will not do great if they alienate solo-play. A group using teamwork should be better than a group not using teamwork, but the second group still deserves a fighting chance.

WoW has shown that many MMO-players, despite playing an MMO, like solo play.

Last edited by Bags; 2011-02-25 at 01:12 PM.
Bags is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 01:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
Timantium
Sergeant
 
Timantium's Avatar
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


Originally Posted by Bags View Post
PS: If I put in my signature, "I DO NOT SUPPORT MOSSIE FARMING INFANTRY WITH THE DEGREE OF EASE WHICH OCCURS NOW", will people stop assuming I support the current mossie's abilities?
Not likely, or they might until you kill them with a mossie for the first time in PS:N.

I play for team tactics. My outfit is mostly gone, a few holdouts splintered into other outfits in an attempt to secure a beta key. We were small, but well organized and we could turn the tide of a battle where larger outfits who zerged all day did just that (zerged all day).

I think the broad specialization of different certs doesn't necessarily make you a "one-man army," it just makes you a versatile soldier instead of a specialist. I don't like flying, so I don't cert planes. I like driving ground vehicles so I have my mag cert for when I have a good gunner, AMS for when my empire needs me to drive an AMS and transport for when I actually have an organized squad. I am a high enough BR that I can do this while keeping a good loadout for attacking/defending bases (free Rexo, HA/AV, Adv. Med, CE). This does not make me a one-man army - it means I am proficient in a lot of areas, but not really specialized in any.

One-man army arguments could be limited by reducing inventory space and adding armor restrictions for drivers. Personally, I want to limit armor restrictions for a driver/pilot before I change inventory space. I am not sure if you can fly in Rexo now, but you can only drive a few vehicles (ATV, buggys) in it.

One man army arguments could also be limited by further changing certs to split some categories, like requiring someone to cert HA before they can cert AV or vice versa. Currently, you need MA to cert some of them anyway. I am not really supportive of making people cert tons of things they wont use to try and control how many things they can cert in total.

The easiest way they can prevent this problem is not raising the BR cap too high. Leave us enough certs to fill certain roles. By max rank, everyone should be able to cert into at least one specialized combat role (HA/AV/SA/Sniper - Agile/REXO/Cloak), at least one ground vehicle or an air cert and one support or MAX cert tree.

This means a player would be able to fill certs like so:
  • one weapon with REXO or Cloaker, two weapons certs with Agile
  • one ground with one air, two ground or two air
  • lvl 1 in MED/ENG/HACK, lvl 2 in one of those areas and lvl 1 in another area, lvl 3 in one area or MAX certs.

This could of course be tweaked to allow people not to cert a vehicle at all if they don't want to and would rather put those points into extra weapons or support certs. I just can't see a system that would deny players at max rank the ability to move around with a vehicle, use at least one advanced weapon and armor set and fill a support role.

If we are supposed to only fill one role like the instanced FPS out there that they play on consoles it won't work. Planetside is not instanced. Some days I like to drive, some days I want to grunt, some days I want to support. If I am forced to only do one I will get tired of the role and quit.
Timantium is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 01:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
Bags
Lieutenant General
 
Bags's Avatar
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


Originally Posted by Timantium View Post
Not likely, or they might until you kill them with a mossie for the first time in PS:N.
I'm absolutely horrible with mossies; I can't get the sensitivity right. If you die to me in a mossie there is something very, very wrong.

I think the broad specialization of different certs doesn't necessarily make you a "one-man army," it just makes you a versatile soldier instead of a specialist. I don't like flying, so I don't cert planes. I like driving ground vehicles so I have my mag cert for when I have a good gunner, AMS for when my empire needs me to drive an AMS and transport for when I actually have an organized squad. I am a high enough BR that I can do this while keeping a good loadout for attacking/defending bases (free Rexo, HA/AV, Adv. Med, CE). This does not make me a one-man army - it means I am proficient in a lot of areas, but not really specialized in any.

With BR20 you could get the full grunt load out and a mossie. That's not a very broad specialization (IF THEY REMOVE MOSSIE'S AMAZING FARMING POWAS)

One-man army arguments could be limited by reducing inventory space and adding armor restrictions for drivers. Personally, I want to limit armor restrictions for a driver/pilot before I change inventory space. I am not sure if you can fly in Rexo now, but you can only drive a few vehicles (ATV, buggys) in it.

This is moot as you're already limited to agile in most vehicles

One man army arguments could also be limited by further changing certs to split some categories, like requiring someone to cert HA before they can cert AV or vice versa. Currently, you need MA to cert some of them anyway. I am not really supportive of making people cert tons of things they wont use to try and control how many things they can cert in total.

There's no need as you cannot be a one man army with BR20 / BR25 cert limits.

The easiest way they can prevent this problem is not raising the BR cap too high. Leave us enough certs to fill certain roles. By max rank, everyone should be able to cert into at least one specialized combat role (HA/AV/SA/Sniper - Agile/REXO/Cloak), at least one ground vehicle or an air cert and one support or MAX cert tree.

So you agree with me then.


If we are supposed to only fill one role like the instanced FPS out there that they play on consoles it won't work. Planetside is not instanced. Some days I like to drive, some days I want to grunt, some days I want to support. If I am forced to only do one I will get tired of the role and quit.
red
Bags is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 01:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
Hamma
PSU Admin
 
Hamma's Avatar
 
Re: What scares me most of all.




You give yourself far to much credit Bags, I did not make this thread for you.
__________________

PlanetSide Universe - Administrator / Site Owner - Contact @ PSU
Hamma Time - Evil Ranting Admin - DragonWolves - Commanding Officer
Hamma is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-25, 01:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
brinkdadrink
Corporal
 
Re: What scares me most of all.


I want planetside to be very team oriented. Im not saying so much that you cant get around without a teammate but keep in mind that is what its going to be like anyway when you start with 6 certs. I think it isnt right that you can fly and do damage to jump out of a vehicle going full speed with full health and HA, AV. A really easy fix for both sides i think would be:

Allow what they do now but if you bail then all 3x9 weapons are gone. If you get in a car with a full back pack are you really going to drive with it on. Same with ground vehicles too excluding open top such as ATV. This way if you land and fight you "have time to grab your big guns" while if you hop out you dont.
brinkdadrink is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply
  PlanetSide Universe > PlanetSide Discussions > PlanetSide 2 Discussion

Bookmarks

Discord

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27 AM.

Content © 2002-2013, PlanetSide-Universe.com, All rights reserved.
PlanetSide and the SOE logo are registered trademarks of Sony Online Entertainment Inc. © 2004 Sony Online Entertainment Inc. All rights reserved.
All other trademarks or tradenames are properties of their respective owners.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.