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Old 2012-04-08, 05:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #1
basti
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PAX Future of Online Games Panel


Edit:

Full Video:







There appears to be some PS2 in it as well. Havent got a chance yet to view it.

Last edited by Hamma; 2012-04-09 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Added Full Video
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Old 2012-04-08, 05:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #2
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PS2 parts? Anyone know? Not enough time to watch all of them right now.

EDIT: Well now I apparently do. Gonna go through this bit by bit, only the questions I'm interested in though. Good seat layout for Higby there being on the end, first and last things that are said/done are always the most memorable, so he's in the right place to be one of the most memorable.

First: Free 2 play versus pay to play, the answer was a lot of positivity about free 2 play but the big thing that struck me from one of the answerers (not sure who) was BOTH.

I think that would REALLY work, I have a new thought on what I want the payment model to be. Give us both a subscription and a f2p model. I know this idea is already being batted around here but the suggestion is a bit of extra SOE bucks along with it. Instead, why not just set it up so that subscription players get EVERYTHING that's not unlockable through gameplay, they can have any visual enhancements they like but don't get all the sidegrades that will be unlockable through gameplay. This gives people the complete choice of customisation, obviously they can still choose to buy those sidegrades but they're going to be unlockable through gameplay so really there's no need to. This to me would be absolutely perfectly and exactly what I'd choose to go for if it were an option, my loyal subscription and the guarantee of my money monthly. If someone chooses to remove their subscription then they simply don't get NEW visual content added to the game, which will undoubtedly be frequent as per other f2p models. I'm sure the math heads can work out what would be best here based on average purchases and work out the perfect subscription cost for this to be (on average) a good thing for the business.

Second: Everything is an mmo shooter now, why? What's the turning point that's caused that?

MMO games have done a good job of creating communities but a pretty bad job of creating competition. They're trying to move towards much more competitive online mmo games now.

Secondary answer - the players, they're dictating what the companies are choosing to do. [I]If I were to speculate on that, I'd say it's because FPS games these days have become a massive industry, propagated first by Halo's immense success and followed up by cods success and more recently Battlefield's, I'd speculate is because businesses are going where the money is, and right now there's big money in the FPS genre and more companies want a share of that pot.

Hmm, that's really it, much fewer interesting questions than I was personally interested in. Too many very long answers that all said the same thing as one another, I know they want the speech time but they don't need to repeat what others have said so many times. I feel like it would have been much better if the speakers were much more concise and considerate of time. More questions. The difficult vs marketing one, while a potentially interesting discussion, was the same answer over and over, arguing that both are good, both combined are good, both alone are good, everyone has different tastes, yet they all dragged on a very long time regarding it, barring Higgles, it just wasn't that necessary and chewed up time. Oh well.
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Last edited by Skitrel; 2012-04-08 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 2012-04-08, 05:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


Higby talks a little about it, crowd loves it. Guild War 2 guy kinda gives Higby and PS2 a nudge as he stated "GW2 will make you play with people and not just along side people." That was said after Higby was told to give a summary of the game.

No new info or anything like that.

Last edited by Owalpo; 2012-04-08 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 2012-04-08, 05:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


There was some parts on PS2. Nothing major more general stuff that is known. There was was general questions answered by Higby. Was a good show too. The Defiance game that was another shooter was just so lacking I think.
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Old 2012-04-08, 06:31 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


From what I've heard, GW2 castrates MMORPG PVP and turns it into a consensual warfront thing. For me that's a bad thing, you need to be able to attack enemies on your own server.

World of Tanks is an MMO shooter? Two things on that:
1. It's tanks only. I think that if an MMO shooter only has one "mode", in this case, ground vehicles, that has to be considered as a shortcoming. Integrated battlefield>single mode.
2. I haven't played it, but apparently it's deathmatch style, with 30 player maximum at any time? How is that an MMO?

Last edited by Stardouser; 2012-04-08 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 2012-04-08, 06:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


GW2 PVP (World Vs World) is very similar to Planetside. Open world ganking is not good gameplay.
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Old 2012-04-08, 06:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


Originally Posted by Aractain View Post
GW2 PVP (World Vs World) is very similar to Planetside. Open world ganking is not good gameplay.
Yes, it is. You need to be ready to be attacked whenever an attack comes. Lack of open world pvp is a lot worse than any shooter casualization. If I want to play consensual only PvP, I'll play a shooter.

UNDERSTAND, though, that the real problem is this: To the best of my knowledge, they won't even be providing optional PvP servers. Everquest, for example, in its golden era, had a shitload of non-pvp servers and 3 PvP servers. That's how it should be, you provide a PvP option for those that want it. Carebears that only want to PvP when they are ready for it can simply not choose a PvP server.

You can argue about how open world PvP isn't what you want, and that's fine, they should give you the ability to pick that kind of server. But how can you justify not allocating one or two servers to the people that want PvP? PvP servers also serve the purpose of gathering the scumbags, of which I am one, and putting them off away from the rest of the playerbase.
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Old 2012-04-08, 06:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


The guy next to Higby says:
"I'll be a little bit more specific, it was Everquest for me, but in particular, the Rallos Zek server, which was the PvP server, and uh, I loved the community policed themselves, I liked that, you know, everybody knew who the ass holes were and everybody knew who the good guys were, everybody, you know, knew everybody, there was just such a strong community built around hating one another, it just grew on me."

THAT is why you need PvP servers. He nailed it. Who was that guy that said that, anyway?

I remember back in my Rallos days, we ran around constantly /guildstatting people in the zone who were anonymous to check if they were in known PK guilds. And also, when meditating between fights, sitting in areas that allowed for an easy escape. You just can't get that experience with consensual carebear pvp.

Last edited by Stardouser; 2012-04-08 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 2012-04-09, 01:57 AM   [Ignore Me] #9
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


Originally Posted by Stardouser View Post
The guy next to Higby says:
"I'll be a little bit more specific, it was Everquest for me, but in particular, the Rallos Zek server, which was the PvP server, and uh, I loved the community policed themselves, I liked that, you know, everybody knew who the ass holes were and everybody knew who the good guys were, everybody, you know, knew everybody, there was just such a strong community built around hating one another, it just grew on me."

THAT is why you need PvP servers. He nailed it. Who was that guy that said that, anyway?

I remember back in my Rallos days, we ran around constantly /guildstatting people in the zone who were anonymous to check if they were in known PK guilds. And also, when meditating between fights, sitting in areas that allowed for an easy escape. You just can't get that experience with consensual carebear pvp.
Rallos Zek was the bluebiest of all the red servers. The gigantic guild on Rallos enforced a 'no-pvp' policy. When the PVP servers were merged, the big guild on Rallos that enforced a non-PVP atmosphere tried to parlay with the big guilds from other servers. That parlay didn't go as planned and that big Rallos guild was pked into oblivion.

Originally Posted by Carbanu View Post
GW2 from the video looks exactly like WoW as I remember it from 2004 and the two months I wasted there. How has this game been so popular with games like EQ and WoW on the market? I don't get it. Then again how do we keep buying the same shooters year after year after year. ie. CoD Franchise
Guild Wars 2 plays nothing like WoW or EQ.

Last edited by artifice; 2012-04-09 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 2012-04-09, 11:22 AM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


Originally Posted by Skitrel View Post
Pssh. Ultima Online is and always will be the king of PK games in my mind, UO was ridiculous fun. Possibly the harshest, rudest and most mean and fucked up environment of any mmo out there. Brilliant game.

Pre uber weapons of course.
Originally Posted by artifice View Post
Rallos Zek was the bluebiest of all the red servers. The gigantic guild on Rallos enforced a 'no-pvp' policy. When the PVP servers were merged, the big guild on Rallos that enforced a non-PVP atmosphere tried to parlay with the big guilds from other servers. That parlay didn't go as planned and that big Rallos guild was pked into oblivion.



Guild Wars 2 plays nothing like WoW or EQ.
You guys are only driving the point home that open world PvP servers are necessary!

When was the "no-pvp" thing of Rallos and what guild tried to do that? I was only on Rallos from 1999 to 2004.
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Old 2012-04-09, 11:38 AM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


Noticed that one vid was missing:


Also in the first post now.
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Old 2012-04-09, 04:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


I think open world PvP works well in a game that's difficult enough to encourage grouping in the first place. It tends to not work so well in WoW style MMO's where the content is so easy you can just wander around doing quests an dungeons by yourself. Because then you get a playerbase of soloist who run solo because its the most efficient use of their time to do the things they want to do. And then if you throw open world PvP into that mix you naturally get gank squads just riding about preying on these vulnerable solo dudes. For it to work well the game has to encourage grouping for self preservation, and progress from level 1.

I really liked the question about difficulty in MMO's because I could tell all the developers sort of understood the over casualization of the industry was a problem. None of them really had a satisfactory answer though. Even Higby just kind of blew it off saying "Oh were PvP only so it doesn't effect us". Lets hope what the one guy said about the industry fracturing some in the coming years with smaller budget titles that can cater to niche audiences becoming reality. That really is the only hope for that type of gameplay to live on. Since the giant budget games naturally just want to sell to everyone. That problem actually goes beyond the MMO industry, and is effecting the entire game industry.
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Old 2012-04-09, 07:24 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


Originally Posted by basti View Post
Noticed that one vid was missing:

Future of Online Gaming: Part 1 - YouTube

Also in the first post now.
I like the part when we all stand up and cheer for Higby haha. He asked us earlier that day to come and support him...I think we did a pretty good job.
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Old 2012-04-09, 03:10 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


Originally Posted by Stardouser View Post
The guy next to Higby says:
"I'll be a little bit more specific, it was Everquest for me, but in particular, the Rallos Zek server, which was the PvP server, and uh, I loved the community policed themselves, I liked that, you know, everybody knew who the ass holes were and everybody knew who the good guys were, everybody, you know, knew everybody, there was just such a strong community built around hating one another, it just grew on me."

THAT is why you need PvP servers. He nailed it. Who was that guy that said that, anyway?

I remember back in my Rallos days, we ran around constantly /guildstatting people in the zone who were anonymous to check if they were in known PK guilds. And also, when meditating between fights, sitting in areas that allowed for an easy escape. You just can't get that experience with consensual carebear pvp.
Pssh. Ultima Online is and always will be the king of PK games in my mind, UO was ridiculous fun. Possibly the harshest, rudest and most mean and fucked up environment of any mmo out there. Brilliant game.

Pre uber weapons of course.
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Old 2012-04-09, 09:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
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Re: Pax Future of MMO Panel


Originally Posted by Skitrel View Post
Pssh. Ultima Online is and always will be the king of PK games in my mind, UO was ridiculous fun. Possibly the harshest, rudest and most mean and fucked up environment of any mmo out there. Brilliant game.

Pre uber weapons of course.
UO was such an awesome MMO. I remember the days of CAREFULLY checking everything in my bag to make sure I don't leave Britannia with any more than absolutely necessary, because odds are I wouldn't be keeping my stuff very long. I wish there were more games with harsh environments like that, UO really gave me a sense of accomplishment if I even made a short trip out of town and came back with more than I left with, let alone how proud I was when I finally had the cash to lay down my own tiny little stone cottage.
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