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View Poll Results: What do you identify yourself as?
Atheist/Skeptic/Agnostic 151 70.89%
Catholic 21 9.86%
Protestant 24 11.27%
Jewish 5 2.35%
Muslim 2 0.94%
Philisophy (Such as Buddhism) 10 4.69%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 2012-04-06, 11:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #496
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Re: Religion


In the case of the Civil War it was a very specific right that state's either did or did not possess, however. The entire thing is fairly complex in that it involves economic issues, the abolitionist movement, and state self-governance. The Civil War does stand as a very clear indication of why federal authority is important, though. Some things are simply wrong, like slavery, and if the democratic process within states is setup such that it would be essentially impossible for that wrong to be undone anytime in the foreseeable future, then it falls to the federal government to ensure that justice is dispensed.

So while there's some truth to the claim that a federal government in the industrialized North wasn't representing the best interests of the slave states in the South, it's also true that when the time came for the emancipation of black people, it was a clear example of why federal authority overriding that of states can be a good thing.
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Old 2012-04-07, 04:57 AM   [Ignore Me] #497
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Sirisian View Post
From an Atheist perspective deities wouldn't exist without us.
Man creates gods in his own image. It's been going on for millenia.
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Old 2012-04-07, 05:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #498
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by AnamNantom View Post
State's rights are what those that would like a more centralized government fight against.. and when you do that, you are fighting US citizens.
What wonderful hyperbole. Either for states rights, or against citizens.

Dude, the very first political parties to spring up were centered on the stronger states vs stronger federal government debate, and it was a matter of much contention when they wrote the constitution, and the articles of confederation before that.

Cities and counties manage their local issues just fine without having to be sovereign entities separate from the state. Its a perfectly reasonable position to hold that state sovereignty is at least somewhat unnecessary and outdated as well.

230 years ago, if you asked someone what they were a citizen of, they would say 'I am a citizen of [their state].' The same question now yields the answer 'America'. They may live in a state, but most don't consider the fact that they are citizens of it.
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Old 2012-04-07, 06:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #499
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
Man creates gods in his own image. It's been going on for millenia.
God evolved with the human race.
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Old 2012-04-07, 07:18 AM   [Ignore Me] #500
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
Man creates gods in his own image. It's been going on for millenia.
Did I just hear him admit to something?
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Old 2012-04-07, 08:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #501
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Re: Religion


Six millennia, to be precise!
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Old 2012-04-07, 11:37 PM   [Ignore Me] #502
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Talking Re: Religion


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
What wonderful hyperbole. Either for states rights, or against citizens.

Dude, the very first political parties to spring up were centered on the stronger states vs stronger federal government debate, and it was a matter of much contention when they wrote the constitution, and the articles of confederation before that.

Cities and counties manage their local issues just fine without having to be sovereign entities separate from the state. Its a perfectly reasonable position to hold that state sovereignty is at least somewhat unnecessary and outdated as well.

230 years ago, if you asked someone what they were a citizen of, they would say 'I am a citizen of [their state].' The same question now yields the answer 'America'. They may live in a state, but most don't consider the fact that they are citizens of it.
The 10th Amendment is very important. These are the United States. There is a wonderful reason to keep the states separate and not have it as one large unified State. Checks and balances. It's the last great hope past all of the activist judges who think they generate laws like pigeons generate fecal matter in New York city.

People who study sovereignty who are asked what they are a citizen of should explain that they are free men and women who live and move as they will.

BTW, Long live the Vanu Sovereignty!
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Old 2012-04-08, 02:26 AM   [Ignore Me] #503
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
2012 AD, After Death.. Of Christ...
It's actually Anno Domini, which is latin for "In the year of our Lord", but that's a common mistake.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
Edit: I hate to say this, and I know I'm going to get bashed even more so than usual. I do hope you get on the forums after a loved-one dies. After all the anguish and pain that comes with it, then comes the funeral. Then comes the thoughts. Sad to say, I believe some of you may never see what I am saying until you've lost someone you've truly loved, then refuse to believe that they will be simply worm food. But that time will come. And it's going to hurt. Then you are going to be talking to something you don't believe in.
I'm not sure why you're just assuming that we've never lost anybody that we've loved.
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Old 2012-04-08, 02:28 AM   [Ignore Me] #504
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by AnamNantom View Post
It's the last great hope past all of the activist judges who think they generate laws like pigeons generate fecal matter in New York city.
The funny thing about judges, is that they're only ever 'activists' when people disagree with the decision.

They don't generate laws. The tell the rest of the government what laws it can and cannot make. It is exceedingly rare for the supreme court to even suggest something it would find acceptable.


But no, the tenth amendment is compromise that 13 nations who wanted to maintain some degree of autonomy reached. They wanted an out. They weren't willing to commit 100% to each other.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
Haven't been on PSU much lately and obviously haven't been posting on the religious debate lately. Needless to say it's impossible to educate (if I can use that term without being obliterated in the face with a shotgun) that religion is a part of every day life. Those fighting it and contiuning to believe that humanity as a whole has all the answers, all the intelligence needed to understand every single possible incling of knowledge and that we are the "know all be all" absolute race.

I have another simple question that I want the stream of your agnostic / athiest responses to.

Why is it that the years that are commonly used world wide,every single day. are based on a mythological death? Wouldn't some sort of religion stand up against something as strong as the time period? 2012 AD, After Death.. Of Christ...

2000 BC, Before Christ... If this was so profound out of ALL the religions in the past 2000 years, why is this one stamping the time frame we live in now?
Thats cute. You think its the only one represented.

Sunday = Sol's day
Monday = Mani's day
Tuesday = Tyr's day.
Wednesday = Wodin's day.
Thursday = Thor's day
Friday = Freyja's day.
Saturday = Saturn's day

So we've got the germanic/norse pantheon covered, plus one stray roman god(presumably they didn't like the idea of saturday being 'washing day')

Then theres months of the year.

January = Janus
February = Februa
March = Mars
April = Aphrodite
May = Maia
June = Juno

July and August, of course, for Julius and Augustus Caesar, and then September, October, November, and December, which are humorous in that they stand for 7, 8, 9, and 10, but are the 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th months of the year. You can thank the aforementioned Julius and Augustus for that one, as well.


Point being.. The date the Gregorian calender starts means exactly dick. Also, its not the only calender. Its the year 5772 on the hebrew calender, 1433 in the islamic calender, 1461 in the armenian calendar, 6762 in the assyrian calendar, 1419 in the bengali calender, 2962 in the berber calender, 2556 in the buddhist calender, 1374 in the burmese calender, 7520 in the byzantine calender, 4708 in the chinese calender, 1729 in the coptic calender, 2004 in the ethiopian calender, 2068/1934/5113 in various hindu calenders, 1390 in the iranian calender, 4345 in the korean calender, 2555 in the thai solar calendar. The gregorian calendar wasn't even invented until 600 years after the alleged birth of JC, and took until the year 900 to become a decently popular standard, and then only in europe.

The gregorian calender got adopted as the standard because standards are handy, and because it was used by several very dominant imperial powers for a long time in a lot of places. Those calenders I listed were in common use in their areas until quite recently, and were only changed by imperial force or pressure due to trading partners.

If you still maintain there is something special about it being the year of our lord, 2012, then there also must be something special about it also being Saturn's day, in the month of Aphrodite.


I've always just laughed that my quite christian parents don't realize they named me after Nike.

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2012-04-08 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 2012-04-08, 03:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #505
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Re: Religion


Duke seriously, do some background research for once before you say something that makes not just you, but those in the camp you support look stupid... It's not doing them any favours and you just come over as ignorant.

If you come up with random argument Y because it just popped into your head, check it three or more times from different sources.

Edit: As for your edit... Really? How many funerals you think I have been to? And how about you consider that you being emotionally unstable and wishful thinking combined is simply setting yourself up for a self-delusion to suppress your emotions and comfort you? Gee, what a logical piece of evidence for motive of afterlife creation in religions, based on nothing but wishful thinking and denial.

Last edited by Figment; 2012-04-08 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 2012-04-08, 05:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #506
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
2000 BC, Before Christ... If this was so profound out of ALL the religions in the past 2000 years, why is this one stamping the time frame we live in now?

Were the people then so ignorant? Did their scientology and facts decieve them?
Haha, you used "scientology" again. Good god, man.

And yeah, people were so ignorant. Ever hear of the Dark Ages? Rome fell, but the power of the Church remained.
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Old 2012-04-08, 01:36 PM   [Ignore Me] #507
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Re: Religion


Duke, if you know you're going to get "bashed" for something, it's probably because there's something wrong with it.

Facing death tends to be mentally healthier for atheists. As you say, we have to face the loss of our loved one...we have to face the fact that they're gone, permanently, forever. To delude oneself into believing they're in a better place, that one day you'll see them again when you're dead...It may be comforting in the short-term, but in the long-run I don't think it's as mentally or emotionally healthy. Sure, there are atheists who go into denial or theists who deal properly with their grief, but for theists who've lost someone, I think heaven is often be used to avoid dealing with grief, which isn't healthy. I tend to find atheists are far more comfortable dealing with death, talking about death and facing their own deaths than theists are (again, with exceptions).
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Old 2012-04-08, 09:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #508
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Re: Religion


The point Duke was making, it seems, is that the life of Jesus was a historically significant event.

The current calendar years, the modern world uses is based on counting the years after His life.

The point about a funeral seems that he was wondering if any of you had experienced thoughts of death, been faced with it's permanent implications, or really thought deeply about it, how it effects you forever.

The truth that I think all of you can agree on is that most people do not think about their own demise, or anyone else's deeply enough. We tend to skip over thoughts of things of death or eternity. We are so focused on our lives. Our awesome computer games (Hi PS2!), our jobs, our daily affairs, etc.

Here's a very simple and yet very difficult thing to grasp. We all are used to measuring time by the beginning or ending of something... so think about this:

Imagine forever. Imagine being forever somewhere. Imagine being alive forever, try to think of how long forever is... it never ends. Never stops, it always continues. What most Christians will agree on is that it matters very much what you decide upon in the here and now. That there is a vast gulf between God and man that religion can't fill. Religion is doomed to failure. Only trusting in His very own self-sacrifice upon the cross (Happy Easter!) and His death, burial, and resurrection as a propitiation for our sins will make us clean and all things forgiven forever.

It's not a social club, it's not some magical mystical ritual we gotta do. We don't have to have more good than bad things done, all of these are myths. It's a relationship. It's a trust in Him to do what He says He will do. He made it simple, even for the most simple minded. Notice, the proud-hearted usually miss it, or deny Him much like Satan, they make themselves their own god. They say that they can be fine alone. It's admitting our mistakes before a holy God, and seeing His love through His holiness that made the way, the truth, and the life for all.

Anyhow, again, Happy Easter, can't wait for PS2!
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Old 2012-04-08, 09:50 PM   [Ignore Me] #509
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by AnamNantom View Post
Imagine forever. Imagine being forever somewhere. Imagine being alive forever, try to think of how long forever is... it never ends. Never stops, it always continues.
"I don't want to exist in a conscious state for the rest of eternity constantly thinking. I don't like thinking as it is. 'Where's me passport? Can't punch women in the face!'" - Jim Jefferies

Honestly him and George Carlin are tied for my favorite comedian ever. His delivery is amazing.


Hell, I think i posted this earlier in the thread, but I don't care enough to go looking
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Old 2012-04-08, 11:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #510
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Re: Religion


Duke you should really stop posting, you're just making a fool of yourself. Again.
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