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Old 2012-12-28, 08:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #16
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


To paraphrase Conan... What is best in PS2? To crush your enemies and see them driven before you and read there QQ's on the forums.

But any decent outfit with at least 25 members online can handle a zerg... The problem might be that the majority of players are unorganized or play with only 3-4 friends.
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Old 2012-12-28, 09:27 AM   [Ignore Me] #17
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Beerbeer View Post
The only way any of those strategies work is if you equal in numbers to the zerg, which means you're zerging, too.

I'm sure you've done this and felt good about yourself, but failed to realize you're zerging too as you tend to pay less attention to the swarm of friendlies around you then those enemies in front of you.
I have seen these strategies working with relatively small teams but I guess it depends on what you define as a Zerg numbers wise. In my definition, on a medium-high pop server: Anything below 25 people I don't consider it a Zerg, 25-50 is debatable and over 50 players is defenitely a Zerg.

Originally Posted by Sunrock View Post
But any decent outfit with at least 25 members online can handle a zerg...
Not entirely true in my experience. Being outnumbered more than 3:1 by a Zerg can be bitch to handle, even for decent platoon level outfits. Especially when that Zerg has air superiority.
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Old 2012-12-28, 09:32 AM   [Ignore Me] #18
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Rolfski View Post
I have seen these strategies working with relatively small teams but I guess it depends on what you define as a Zerg numbers wise. In my definition, on a medium-high pop server: Anything below 25 people I don't consider it a Zerg, 25-50 is debatable and over 50 players is defenitely a Zerg.



Not entirely true in my experience. Being outnumbered more than 3:1 by a Zerg can be bitch to handle, even for decent platoon level outfits. Especially when that Zerg has air superiority.
Agree but the large downside to a zerg is that it doesn't really stop, even if it runs into an organized defense they'll keep pushing, and if properly deployed several AA Max can quickly kill of / chase away most of the enemy air, at least if supported by a few friendly fliers.
And after that a simple 5-6 Liberators can make short work of their ground forces. (Zergs are pretty horrible at bringing their own G2A forces when they're on the attack as well)

The hardest fights to win is where one or two organized outfits supports a major zerg though, for example if there are 3-4 Gunships and 7-8 A2A ESFs supporting the zerg then it's pretty damn hard to stop (at least once they start focusing your AA Max)

Last edited by Mriswith; 2012-12-28 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 2012-12-28, 10:36 AM   [Ignore Me] #19
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Originally Posted by p0intman View Post
Your command of MS paint is surely the mark of a superior tactician. No sarcasm.
Agreed.

Personally I use curse words to direct my zerg and my OP Magrider to direct the enemy zerg
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Old 2012-12-29, 03:48 AM   [Ignore Me] #20
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Mriswith View Post
Agree but the large downside to a zerg is that it doesn't really stop, even if it runs into an organized defense they'll keep pushing, and if properly deployed several AA Max can quickly kill of / chase away most of the enemy air, at least if supported by a few friendly fliers.
And after that a simple 5-6 Liberators can make short work of their ground forces. (Zergs are pretty horrible at bringing their own G2A forces when they're on the attack as well)

The hardest fights to win is where one or two organized outfits supports a major zerg though, for example if there are 3-4 Gunships and 7-8 A2A ESFs supporting the zerg then it's pretty damn hard to stop (at least once they start focusing your AA Max)
Agree, there's often a persistent flow in these Zerg battles that have organized teams.
  1. First phase is mostly escalating ground skirmishes until air becomes a real issue for the defenders.
  2. This is the point where you see teams pulling out burster maxes to fend off the air thread from the Zerg.
  3. Many times, this won't help and you'll get bombed into oblivion anyway and loose the base. Sometimes however, you can actually scare away enemy air and pull out libs of your own to try to stop a Zerg in its tracks.
  4. Still no guarantee for success of course, as this will often result in organized teams within the Zerg to counter you with their AA.
  5. But if you still manage to hold the base at this point, you're often getting to the phase where teams start pulling off tricks on each other and are going for their "Rain of Steel" or Max Crash tactics to force a breakthrough, instantly filling the sky with mass redeploying drop pots or jumping armor.
  6. By this time your base will likely be surrounded and enemies start pouring in from multiple captured hard points, outposts, Sunderers and squad beacons.
  7. If your still holding on so far in the defense of your base against a Zerg: congratulations. This battle will now be filed into your memory under "Epic Thermopylae/the Alamo"

Last edited by Rolfski; 2012-12-29 at 03:50 AM.
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Old 2012-12-29, 03:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #21
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


The insane power of the Annihilator. I giggled. Have you even tried to fire that thing at front armor/upgraded side armor (you're not getting back armor hits without dumbfire)? I hope you have 10 people all firing at once and the tank doesn't dodge or have smoke.

It's utterly worthless and can hardly help with 1 vehicle, let alone a zerg. At least use a regular g2g launcher, now that thing is relevant.

Last edited by gunshooter; 2012-12-29 at 03:58 AM.
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Old 2012-12-29, 04:24 AM   [Ignore Me] #22
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Originally Posted by gunshooter View Post
The insane power of the Annihilator. I giggled. Have you even tried to fire that thing at front armor/upgraded side armor (you're not getting back armor hits without dumbfire)? I hope you have 10 people all firing at once and the tank doesn't dodge or have smoke.

It's utterly worthless and can hardly help with 1 vehicle, let alone a zerg. At least use a regular g2g launcher, now that thing is relevant.
It's a team-only weapon that has lower dps but superior versatility, lower cost, faster reload, higher projectile speed and ROF vs AV and AA lock-on launchers.
If you call out your targets you can drop any enemy vehicle in seconds.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/up7ATbSq-WE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Last edited by Rolfski; 2012-12-29 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 2012-12-29, 04:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #23
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Rolfski View Post
It's a team-only weapon that has lower dps but superior versatility, lower cost, faster reload, higher projectile speed and ROF vs AV and AA lock-on launchers.
If you call out your targets you can drop any enemy vehicle in seconds.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/up7ATbSq-WE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
If you get multiple platoons all firing rocket launchers at solo 1/3 liberators you can kill them. I'm not sure why you're linking a video of a huge zerg shooting rockets at solo people in a thread about stopping zergs.

Meanwhile Annihilators still do pathetic damage to armor. I question whether you have actually shot a tank with one to make such a bold statement.

Last edited by gunshooter; 2012-12-29 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 2012-12-29, 06:29 AM   [Ignore Me] #24
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


You should do some homework yourself:
All tanks have 8000 HP. Damage to the front of a Vanguard is only 75%. To the front of a Magrider/Prowler it is 90%. Side and top is 100% and rear is 240% damage for all tanks.
The AV lock-on does 1500 damage, The Annihilator does 1150, or 23% less

Tank front
Which means it takes 8 shots for the AV to drop a Vanguard from the front and 10 shots the Annihilator.
A Magrider/Prowler will drop in 6 shots on the front from the AV and 8 shots on the front from the Annihilator.
The difference is 2 shots head-on.

Tank side/top

From the side and top, the AV will kill in 6 shots, the Annihilator in 7.
The difference is only 1 shot from the side/top.

Tank rear
From the rear, the AV will kill in 3 shots, the Annihilator also in 3.
From the rear it's the same shots to kill

Also, keep in mind that the Annihilator fires at 13 rpm and the AV launcher at 12.
So a single squad of 10 heavies (+ 1 medic +1 engineer) equipped with Annihilators will drop 13 Vanguards in a minute head-on while still keeping the flexibility to take out anything flying.
That's a full Vanguard platoon or Zerg dropped head-on in under 4 minutes by a single squad...

To keep that same flexibility to kill everything while not having to re-equip with the AV launcher squad you would need at least mix in two AA heavies/maxes while still doing lesser overall damage against tanks.

Choice is yours....
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Old 2012-12-29, 04:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #25
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Hi I'm Baptist an Officer in Consortium an Outfit which plays NC on Miller, I read these forums everyday before work and after, but I don't think I've posted anything as of yet.

My Outfit was having a hard time Vs Aircraft and the Tank spam primarily because we are an Infantry based Outfit, during ops we only pull Galaxies and Sunderers.
Our squad composition was two medics two engineers and the rest heavy with one infiltrator to hack terminals.
We run with around 5-7 squads on an Ops night which we do six days a week, the reason I say all this is we'd chosen the hard path, I come on here sometimes to look at the solutions to our problems against Air dominating us and all I read was flames about how we should get ESF's.

And before you all shout get Air Max's you've no Air Max's in your Squad comp, it's because they're situational, squad leaders would relay commands for certain heavy assaults to change to AA Max, or if the situation was bad the command would come from the Op's commander for a full Talon (Squad) to change to meet the threat.
Still Lib's wiped the floor with us, until two days ago, I'm happy to say we no longer have a problem with air, every Consortium member who is heavy Assault now has an Annihilator, and oh my god how it makes a difference, we are a very organized outfit you have to have a large level of organization to tell people they're NOT allowed to pull tanks whenever they want to, and NOT allowed ESF's at the drop of the hat, so one person shouting out single targets for 7 heavy assaults to is a piece of piss.

This is the way we choose to play the game, and this is the solution to the problem we found, although there are still far to many Tanks and aircraft in this game in my opinion.

Shout out to all the Miller NC!
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Old 2012-12-29, 04:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #26
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


How about a few tweaks to game mechanics too? Today the game design more or less encourages a zerg approach.


Taming the Zerg with Battle Lines & Resources

Goals:
1. Reward strategic play. Unorganized results in higher resource consumption which ultimately throttles a zerg
2. Help players to get into battles quickly and easily. ie. No searching for fights, no getting stuck in deserted areas.
3. Continue to allow players to join their platoon/squad easily. Because we like our friends and friends don't zerg


Changes:
A. Spawn at a mobile Sunderer AMS: 50 inf resources
Why: Sunderers are the key to offensive action. A zerg feeds off easy spawn locations to mitigate constant player death. As zerg players run out of resources they will be end-up back at their base and into a defensive posture.
B. Redeploy can be performed from faction controlled base terminals at no cost. Can be done away from terminal for 50 inf resources. Same for /suicide
Why: Probably the biggest contributor to the zerg allowing it to move easily and mindlessly. Combined with the Sunderer spawn cost this should ultimately place a cap on the lifespan of any zerg. This will also push outfits to use more transport and enforce better logistical coordination.
C. A player should always be offered a spawn point option, at no cost, that:
  • Is along a territory border base
  • Is in proximity to an active battle
  • That has roughly balanced opposing forces
Why: Not all players want to join an outfit and/or follow a squad around. They should not be penalized for trying to find a fight. However they should not be gang-pressed into a zerg as they are today.
Expected Results
By combining the above changes PS2 should start to develop a battle front type feel. The solo and/or unorganized players will naturally be led to border territories and toward roughly even fights. Base defenses can and will still be overwhelmed by vastly superior numbers. However, this will be most successful when outfits coordinate actions and use logistical planning to include transport to ferry forces. Offensive victories will come at a price to the victor and will push the battles lines, not disintegrate them. A successful defense on the other hand will setup a strong counter offensive. A defensive victory will leave the opponent short of infantry resources and temporarily unable to effect new offensive action. The victorious defense will have full resources and be massed at base ready to press a counter attack.

Last edited by WreckedM; 2012-12-29 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 2012-12-29, 10:31 PM   [Ignore Me] #27
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Some good ideas, I suggest you also post them in this thread that is entirely about what SOE should change in regard to zerg mechanics.
In this topic, I would like to stick to exchanging ideas what WE can do as players NOW in the game when facing a zerg, not about what the devs should change.
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Old 2012-12-30, 03:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #28
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Much prefer the Decimator over the Annihilator. Nothing says HALT! like losing 50% hp to a side shot and on waterson DVS likes to roll groups of 30-40 vannies so it comes in handy. just point at the mob on the road and fire.
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Old 2012-12-30, 03:33 PM   [Ignore Me] #29
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Rolfski View Post
[*]Annihilate it
Yes, it is possible to defeat the Zerg head-on. The magic word here is the Annihilator. Outfits are just beginning to realize the insane power of this ultimate lock-on whore. A single squad equipped with these rockets can tear down a platoon of air and ground vehicles in just minutes. Players are reluctant to cert into this launcher because of its low damage output, not realizing that a couple of them teaming up can rip apart any vehicle apart in seconds from great distances. The trick is here to call out your targets.
Hate to be "that guy" but the reason the annihilator works isn't for any of the reasons you have stated. Infantry doesn't load for air/armor so we get slammed by invisible damage and have no idea where it's coming from and are completely unable to counter attack against it. That's the only reason it works. I have flanked and cleared entire packs of heavy assault and infantry that Iv managed to flank and gotten 8+ kills at once while tanking the pitiful damage from lock on launchers which I couldn't do if it was a standard rocket.

However, getting bombarded with consistent damage with no tracers of any sort and infantry blinking in/out of existence as I try to find it doesn't kill me but it does remove me from the fight as I back off to repair/look for a spot engage (which I can usually never find).

If they ever fix player culling and rendering issues that prevent us from engaging infantry that will be a very, very bad choice of weapons. Currently it works because of reasons I have stated and only because of those reasons.

Last edited by yadda; 2012-12-30 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 2012-12-31, 04:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #30
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Re: Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2


Originally Posted by yadda View Post
Hate to be "that guy" but the reason the annihilator works isn't for any of the reasons you have stated. Infantry doesn't load for air/armor so we get slammed by invisible damage and have no idea where it's coming from and are completely unable to counter attack against it. That's the only reason it works. I have flanked and cleared entire packs of heavy assault and infantry that Iv managed to flank and gotten 8+ kills at once while tanking the pitiful damage from lock on launchers which I couldn't do if it was a standard rocket.

However, getting bombarded with consistent damage with no tracers of any sort and infantry blinking in/out of existence as I try to find it doesn't kill me but it does remove me from the fight as I back off to repair/look for a spot engage (which I can usually never find).

If they ever fix player culling and rendering issues that prevent us from engaging infantry that will be a very, very bad choice of weapons. Currently it works because of reasons I have stated and only because of those reasons.
Interesting observation, some things to that however.

This article is about what we can do NOW against Zergs. We all now that PS2 patches can completely change the dynamics of this game overnight. Whether it is bug fixing, balance changes or new content. So yes, Annihilators like any weapon, can become instantly useless after a patch. There's almost no way to predict this with the radical changes SOE is constantly making.

Also, to a certain degree this goes the other way around as well because the distant render bug affects everybody: I have many times problems spotting air as an infantry.

And even without the bug, I'm daring to question your superiority as vehicle pilot against a good organized, well positioned squad of heavies with lock-ons that know what they are doing.
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