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Old 2013-12-08, 01:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #31
Bobby Shaftoe
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Does anyone really think adding this PS1 mechanic into PS2 is going to work any better than previous PS1 additions?

PS1 base siege, entrances could be pushed out from, OSs deployed, CY cleared of CE with EMPs, ANT dropped and shielded by Gal/Lode, pray for 20-30% NTU, repeat. Some co-ordination required.

PS2 base siege, vehicles camping every door, shield and exit. Hordes of Airchavs/Libtards hovering over bases, silo locations probably in extremely exposed location which you will have to drive past the ever present armour zerg camping around the base. Airlifts? Airchav can fly from warpgate to warpgate in about a minute, you'll get picked up 10 seconds after leaving by anyone with a clue.

The only times I can see NTU being an issue is in the larger fights where there's just simply too many people (3way stalemate zergfest) and then any attempt to resupply will just get insta-nuked.

The only base it might work with is Biolabs since a lot of the attackers will actually be inside whilst the 'Silo' will be outside.
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Old 2013-12-08, 02:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #32
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Speaking from experience, the people who hated ANTs in PS1 were the same people that never pulled one, they just demanded someone else do it and went on a rant if nobody did. Yet somehow there was plenty of people pulling ANTs and most of the time it was the unassuming guy you'd never heard of. Not everyone is a killwhore and only killwhores truly hated ANTs. Bringing an ANT into a base under siege solo is one of the most triumphant achievements ever had in a PlanetSide game. Bring them to PS2 and the players who enjoy logistics will have even more content.

Just don't make it into another gimmick to bilk players for money.
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Old 2013-12-08, 05:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #33
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


I ran as many ants as anyone that ever played PS and played with guys that would all pull an ant if needed.

we would run ants into red alerted bases all the damn time,but thats not what is missing in this game, the problems run far deeper than that and this ant dev time could be better used to fix other numerous problems in-game or actually add content that will retain the plauerbase
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Old 2013-12-08, 06:03 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


The resource system needs an overhaul, that is undisputed. If the ANTs only need to be run to major bases keeping the outposts on 'connected power', it won't have the impact you are predicting. The problem I see has much more to do with the way PS2 handles vehicles, it will literally punish whomever pulls the ANT.

We need to be able to pull fresh vehicles with different configurations without a timer or cost, as long as it is the same type as what you already have pulled and you have a live vehicle that can be 'recycled'. This will help Sunderer operators to want to do ANT runs without punishing them for putting the empire first.

ANT XP should also be at least on par with base caps.
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Old 2013-12-09, 03:48 AM   [Ignore Me] #35
Badjuju
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Originally Posted by SgtMAD View Post
this is the worst idea ever,the reality of having to do ant runs in PS was a nightmare,and this is from a guy that had plenty of members to do the actual runs and we did them ad naseum for almost a decade.

the idea that we are going to see sundys doing these runs on the maps we see now is going to "fun" for about a week then the bitching about losing bases because ppl are draining them is "unfair" will be all over the forums.

missing ant runs are NOT whats wrong with this game and to add them at this point is ridiculous.the idea that ppl are going to "pay" for the sundy to do the run is comical.
Most fights don't last long enough for that to be an issue. Bio labs really. The point is tho give objectives in the environment to fight for and provide better vehicle game play or just use of all the map. I think it has the potential to add some fun dynamics to the game but still to early to tell.
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Old 2013-12-09, 08:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #36
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Originally Posted by Baneblade View Post
We need to be able to pull fresh vehicles with different configurations without a timer or cost,
i remember that being part of the resource overhaul- even though they weren't sure what would replace it.
refund on the certs spent on timer was also mentioned.
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Old 2013-12-09, 08:37 PM   [Ignore Me] #37
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Originally Posted by Baneblade View Post
The resource system needs an overhaul, that is undisputed. If the ANTs only need to be run to major bases keeping the outposts on 'connected power', it won't have the impact you are predicting. The problem I see has much more to do with the way PS2 handles vehicles, it will literally punish whomever pulls the ANT.

We need to be able to pull fresh vehicles with different configurations without a timer or cost, as long as it is the same type as what you already have pulled and you have a live vehicle that can be 'recycled'. This will help Sunderer operators to want to do ANT runs without punishing them for putting the empire first.

ANT XP should also be at least on par with base caps.
Personally, I'd rather see the ANT (or rather ANTs) as its own entry.
Resources need overhauling BADLY, mostly because they were first simplified into three BROAD categories that only applied to their specific theatre... and were then just sort of grouped together on the map as a ham-handed attempt to coerce cooperation between various play styles.
I think if ANTs are going to use pre-existing vehicles as their basis, they should at least be their own unarmed variants, possibly less expensive or outright free of cost.
That said, I think FUNCTIONAL Warpgates will help greatly when it comes to Vehicle Purchases, since how often have you been forced to abandon a tank you JUST pulled because you’re squad is moving off Continent?
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Old 2013-12-09, 09:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #38
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


I'm dubious of the idea that an ANT would ever be able to get into a besieged base. I don't know how things worked in PS1, but in PS2 most zergs are armor zergs. I don't see how an ANT-run is going to work when there will be about 30 AP tanks taking aim at it once it gets within 100 meters of a base.
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Old 2013-12-09, 10:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #39
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Originally Posted by BlaxicanX View Post
I'm dubious of the idea that an ANT would ever be able to get into a besieged base. I don't know how things worked in PS1, but in PS2 most zergs are armor zergs. I don't see how an ANT-run is going to work when there will be about 30 AP tanks taking aim at it once it gets within 100 meters of a base.
Well Tanks were a lot rarer sight in Planetside, you needed to specially certify into Heavy Armored Vehicles to pull one, so they were a third tier unlock...
Still, Combat Engineering was way more common, and actual minefields didn't stop ANT runs.
Plus there was the fact that NTU was needed regardless AND Infiltrators could hack Vehicles, so if you were just waiting to flip the Base you'd might as well let the enemy fill it up.

And again, there is both the Galaxy and the Loadstar, both could load and drop ANTs.
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Old 2013-12-10, 12:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #40
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


about the Ant sunderer, and planetside in general. I personally feel the game is still very much a paid beta. I enjoy the product enough that I am happy to give SOE my monthly fee. The game has to have cashflow to get better, so whatever. I got the money to burn, not everyone does.

I suspect the future modules will dramatically change how a sunderer looks/ feels. I imagine it looking like a short Semi Truck with an empty bed. What you slap on the back changes what you can do with it. Crew compartment? Get guns. Ant module? Get energy. Respawn AMS? Get a cloak unit. The sunderer will probably go on to have a dedicated two man crew cab up front.

I personally feel that this is not the end of the changes. That our current equip system is in its infancy, and even simple things like "frames" racer/ etc, will actually change a vehicle's appearance or operation. Thats my hope, time will tell. If planetside 2 for PS4 is a good seller, I suspect we will see more rapid changes. Just sucks that PC was a beta test for it, still, I like planetside and can deal with that.

To finish this one up. You guys, as a community, are really unorganized. You need to get together here, pile up a list of concise questions to ask the devs at the next AMA, and make that happen. "hey how will a sunderer ANT work? Will it have weapons? blah blah blah" instead I see complaints with no solutions offered, no further thought put into them.
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Old 2013-12-10, 08:37 AM   [Ignore Me] #41
Bobby Shaftoe
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
instead I see complaints with no solutions offered, no further thought put into them.
The vast majority of people who would bother to put the effort into that have long since stopped playing or bothering... because SOE didn't listen to them anyway and will do their usual stumble along making the mistakes pointed out here months in advance.

PS2 won't change significantly because of SOEs design decisions from the start, tacking on random PS1 mechanics won't work because there is no inter-relation between the mechanics for them to work/be useful/have a real impact anyway.
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Old 2013-12-10, 08:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #42
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
I see complaints with no solutions offered, no further thought put into them.
Well, you can't just crash a party half way through and expect it to be as awesome as it was in the first hour. This forum is filled to the seams with good ideas and changes that SOE has ignored or outright mocked when they tried to implement them.
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This is the last VIP post in this thread.   Old 2013-12-10, 01:11 PM   [Ignore Me] #43
Malorn
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Says me!

I had a good discussion with Kevmo about it a few months ago, we agreed that the ANT made sense as a Sunderer mod and not a standalone vehicle. The reasons are:

1) It adds more value to the Sundy, so all the players who certed one up and have weapons and cosmetics will get more mileage out of their investments. It's essentially a support vehicle, so giving the support vehicle more value made more sense than creating a new support vehicle.

2) The ANT as a standalone vehicle wasn't compelling enough to warrant a new vehicle. If we're going to make it, it needs to be more interesting than just a power transport vehicle, and that feature-creeps it a lot more than is reasonable.

3) We have already created the Sundy as a utility vehicle by putting the AMS module, the repair module, and the rearm module. It makes sense to add to that for other support utility functionality.

And yes, I would like to see some significant cosmetic differences so you can easily differentiate an ANT sundy from an AMS sundy, as well as the difference between a full ANT and an empty ANT. Don't know how far it'll get, but that's the goal.
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Old 2013-12-10, 01:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #44
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Well that's nice to at least be told why your going with the windy and that you do want a visual difference between them and regular sundys. I'd love to see a visual difference between an ams su du and an armour one.
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Old 2013-12-10, 01:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #45
Carbon Copied
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Re: DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WH


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
-snip-
I honestly don't see the problem of the Sunderer being used if your plan is to make it look aesthetically different i.e increasingly more distinct from variant to variant. However:
  • Why does using the Sunderer to do everything give it more value? It costs the same resources and cool down as if you were to pull AMS/Repair/Ammo variants - no dynamic costing based on loadouts used which makes this point of adding value pretty much void when you can pull it anytime and where.
  • Seats 12 no matter what utility you put on it - wheres the logistic management, deeper customization and risk/reward of that? If I chose to AMS/ANT my sunderer (as example), shouldn't there be sacrifices to accommodate this and create the "you pull an S-AMS and I'll pull the escort Sunderer?" decision/thinking - the fact it can defend itself and essentially not rely on third party support I believe is what makes it considerably more boring in the first place.

You also should think about bringing the Sunderer design wise back into context of the game - why is it bigger than an MBT and have all the futuristic look, feel and handling of a Renault E-Space? (this by the way isn't a good thing)

Overall you can sugar coat the changes and decisions all you please but it doesn't change the fact its largely boring, soul-less and lacking any depth. Although that's a tune the masses have come to dance to quite well by now.
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