The sniper nerf. - Page 2

Wahooo · 2013-11-26, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by almalino

Anyway, I'm much better sniper now with Engi Mana turret noways

1 hit kill with guided endless misles from miles away - priceless. And I can kill vehicles too. Why bother about snipers at all?

Originally Posted by Timealude

sad thing is with this nerf, there will be no effective ways to take out engy turrets without pulling some tank or using a rocket launcher and with the new changes to the recon dart, your pretty much useless at 150m

There is so much wrong with this nerf. So much.
I've already railed on this in other threads.

Makes me happy I didn't re-up my subscription. They are obviously listening to the wrong people which is unfortunate.
So we don't get more continents because every inch of land has been hand done right? If you have spent time as a sniper and go run around and find sniping spots you will see that the land around bases has been designed for sniping at around 200m.

The thing is with this nerf, it isn't now about wait and see. It was a pants on the head retarded nerf decision to implement at all. No actual reason behind it, no real thought given to what sniping is or is not, and the way the games already designed features around sniping, as far as land layout and the function of the rifles.
The game was designed to have long range sniping as something to do.
The sniper rifles themselves... This nerf pretty much obsoletes 1/2 of all of the sniper rifles.
The VS12, SAS-R, and TSAR-42 become the default weapons. The 4x scope is plenty at 150M where it performs just like all of the others. Now at 150-250 the benefit of quick reload for two body shots to kill is the only benefit that matters. Since head shots don't matter, at all, beyond 150 because 2 body shots will kill, then you want to 2 shots faster, and a 4x scope is plenty to aim at the whole body.

V10, Parallax, XM98, Rams.50, SR-7, M77-B, NC14, EM4 Longshot, LA80 have frankly no purpose in the game any longer.

Bocheezu · 2013-11-26, 05:15 PM

If snipers want to make themselves even more useless by being even further from cap points, who are we to stop them.

Lonehunter · 2013-11-26, 05:41 PM

So many good points, I'm still too heart broken to post about it. This was the only infantry niche I excelled in, and they totally removed the concept of skill = reward. Doesn't matter how accurate, or how good at judging distances I am, my one perfect shot is stripped of any meaning. Now I just have to aim for the body and take twice as long to kill like everyone else.

ZephyrBurst · 2013-11-27, 01:35 AM

If I'm imagining this right, the damage dropoff at 150m would make it so it doesn't do at least 1000 damage on a headshot. So technically you're looking at 3 bodyshots past 150m. (Less than 500 damage past 150m.) That is if that's how this is implemented.

I like what Badjuju said. And while myself (and every other sniper) is super used to the current drop, I feel increasing the drop from 7.5 to something like 8 or 8.5 would be a good alternative to this. (Just don't ever change that bullet velocity, I've gotten pretty good at using those horizontal mildots on my Parallax for leading targets.) :P

Taramafor · 2013-11-27, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by ZephyrBurst

So technically you're looking at 3 bodyshots past 150m.

Aw hell no!

War Barney · 2013-11-27, 02:26 PM

How about I'll support you in this if you accept the removal of all close range guns for infiltrators.... its bad enough that you have stealth and 1 shot from miles away, wanting to have that while being able to slaughter people up close thanks to stealth is just stupid.

Then again I guess people just get use to playing a OP as hell class so they don't know how to adjust to playing a balanced one again. Don't worry the fix will happen and you'll eventually improve to the point that you realise it was insanely OP 1 shotting from any range while also being gods of close up with stealth to escape anything

ZephyrBurst · 2013-11-27, 03:06 PM

The Scout Rifles seem fine for Infiltrators as they tend to take a bit more skill to kill reliably, well at least for taking out multiple targets. But SMGs should definitely not be usable by Infiltrators. I've been taking advantage of that lately as well to see how that works and it feels a bit broken. They're too easy to slip in and take out 2 or even 3 dudes, and slip out.

War Barney · 2013-11-27, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by ZephyrBurst

The Scout Rifles seem fine for Infiltrators as they tend to take a bit more skill to kill reliably, well at least for taking out multiple targets. But SMGs should definitely not be usable by Infiltrators. I've been taking advantage of that lately as well to see how that works and it feels a bit broken. They're too easy to slip in and take out 2 or even 3 dudes, and slip out.

Exactly, I could live with snipers 1 shotting you from miles away if you knew it was all the could do, but they can also use among the best close range guns with stealth giving them the ability to appear behind people and kill them in a second or 2 then stealth off again. It annoys me no end dying to infiltrators on my heavy as they just appear behind me with a smg and kill me before I have a chance, hell even if they appear in front of you they will often get the kill as the SMG is just amazing up close and they get the element of surprise.

Timealude · 2013-11-27, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by ZephyrBurst

The Scout Rifles seem fine for Infiltrators as they tend to take a bit more skill to kill reliably, well at least for taking out multiple targets. But SMGs should definitely not be usable by Infiltrators. I've been taking advantage of that lately as well to see how that works and it feels a bit broken. They're too easy to slip in and take out 2 or even 3 dudes, and slip out.

But that is the whole point of infiltrators in this game it seems. They are suppose to have stealth and be able to take out one or two guys. I would argue that infiltrators are very easy to see if you pay attention enough. In fact the only thing I think about the whole class is the fact they arent stealthy enough. This is why, along with other infiltrators, I want stalker cloak to be completely invisible. I wish there was a way to actually move the class focus more towards sabotage instead of actually killing targets. The only thing I really feel is a problem on infiltrators, as far as being too strong, is the ability to drop prox mines/bouncing betties before you die and allowing it to kill a group of people/

Taramafor · 2013-11-27, 04:15 PM

Ergo: it's not sniper rifles that are the problem but the SMG's (Or at least an infiltrator having both). I must admit that infiltrators cloaking around in a base with SMG's is a bit annoying at times. HOWEVER, part of the problem with this is the fact that one can simply exchange a sniper rifle for an SMG at a sun. Furthermore, ALL EMPIRES have infiltrators. All I'm going to say on this particular topic is that infiltrators should perhaps have a weaker close range weapon as they currently have the most powerful long range AND close range weapon, which is silly (As they can cloak and put a clip in your face). I will also add that infiltrators did not always have SMG's and that they were originally a sniper only class. Now that SMG's have been added, it seems obvious (at least to me) why people are hating on them now. The problem however is this. The devs have gone and added both weapons to the class and now, instead of taking one weapon away (which should probably be SMG's and switched for some more automatic rifles similar but better version of the SOAS), people are now used to using them and regardless of/when which weapon gets taken away (if this nerf is implemented it will be bolts) then people are going to be unhappy no matter which course of action is taken.

However, regardless, infiltrators have been snipers at heart and should remain as such. And like it or not, bolts are supposed to kill at long range provided you get in that shot (which is NOT luck but skill) and semi auto's kill in 2-3 whichever way which is fair as far as I'm concerned.

Now if you want the cloak/kill of the infiltrators fixed where SMG's are concerned, how about a second or 2 delay and not being able to shoot when decloaking (which might help with detecting snipers at longer ranges as well) or perhaps not being able to cloak back after decloaking for 2-3 seconds? (which kind of defeats the stealth aspect of the class somewhat but whatever, alternate solutions and all that) But this damage nerf is no solution period.

War Barney · 2013-11-27, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Timealude

But that is the whole point of infiltrators in this game it seems. They are suppose to have stealth and be able to take out one or two guys. I would argue that infiltrators are very easy to see if you pay attention enough. In fact the only thing I think about the whole class is the fact they arent stealthy enough. This is why, along with other infiltrators, I want stalker cloak to be completely invisible. I wish there was a way to actually move the class focus more towards sabotage instead of actually killing targets. The only thing I really feel is a problem on infiltrators, as far as being too strong, is the ability to drop prox mines/bouncing betties before you die and allowing it to kill a group of people/

They aren't hard to spot if you are standing right next to them and know you are looking for one if you don't though you wont spot then until you die generally thanks to the huge dps of the close range guns they can get. Hell they can even aim THEN decloak while still aiming for pinpoint accuracy killing people.

A delay of 2-3 on being able to shoot after decloaking would help but it would still perhaps not be enough as unless you hear the decloak noise chances are you still wont see them before they shoot you. If people want to 1 shot kill people from miles away they need to just remove all viability for a infiltrator at close range, hell the commissar is all they need anyway.

ZephyrBurst · 2013-11-27, 08:00 PM

Having both close and long capability isn't an issue since you can never bring both a Scout Rifle or SMG with your Sniper Rifle.

War Barney · 2013-11-27, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by ZephyrBurst

Having both close and long capability isn't an issue since you can never bring both a Scout Rifle or SMG with your Sniper Rifle.

It is a problem because they have the best weapons for long and short range along with stealth to make them even more deadly. Hell I'd happily give up the use of rockets and the shield on my heavy to get stealth its an amazing tool.

almalino · 2013-11-28, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Taramafor

part of the problem with this is the fact that one can simply exchange a sniper rifle for an SMG at a sun.

That is hardly a valid point since at a sun you can exchange infiltrator to any other class. MAX for example?

With this logic we can say that any class is OP because at sun you can exchange it to Infiltrator with SMG.

Another point already mentioned here that infiltrator cannot use SMG and Sniper rifle at the same time. He needs to chose one and play only one on the battlefield. With Sniper rifles infiltrator is useless in close combat and with SMG he is useless in as a long range sniper.

So , in my opinion complains that infiltrator can use SMG and Snipers rifles are not valid because he cannot equip both at the same time.

Also if infils with SMGs are so overpowered why don't we see zergs full of infiltrators with SMGs attacking bases? Because people consider other classes more suitable and more powerful for close combat than infiltrators.

Infils can be annoying but not overpowered by any means.

I myself barely play infiltrators nowdays because Engi is my favorite class for today. I used to snipe a lot before. And I do not see infiltrators as a great threat. In close combat please do not ignore unclocking sound from infiltrator and you will survive. Also, move always and this will protect you from snipers.

Nothing is overpowered with infiltrators but I might see a reason why SOE want to nerf the distance. They want more epic fights when more people are concentrated on a smaller amount of land and not spread around. I do not support that. I want long range sniping to be available for people because it is already pretty damn hard as it is.

Plaqueis · 2013-11-28, 05:06 AM

Lol ffs.. the thread is about capping the ohk range of sniper-rifles which is already too short due rendering limit, please leave smg's out of this. Personally i couldn't care less if they just took them off as i've hardly used them (i have Sirius, Hailstorm and Ns7) as long as i get my certs back from them.

I also believe that people who whine about ohk's here are greatly exaggerating this and making it sound way worse than it is. I almost only play as footsoldier, and the rare times i get sniped are usually due my own mistake (standing still in the open for whatever reason). And i'm willing to bet that these same whiners get sniped just as much after the nerf, as most of the snipers are within the nerf-range anyways and carrying semi-autos.

Guys who enjoy 'real' sniping (at max range with a bolt-action, not wasting ammo on impossible targets, trying to hold the 1 shot 1 kill policy) are pretty rare i think, i'm certainly 1 of them. If this nerf is applied, it kills a part of the game that i and some others enjoy.

EDIT: How does this sound; tanks shooting shells beyond 150m range at infantry shouldn't be able to ohk either, it's unfair cause i didn't see the tank before it killed me. Same goes for that liberator above whos gunner ohk'd me with Dalton.

Retarded.