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View Poll Results: What do you identify yourself as?
Atheist/Skeptic/Agnostic 151 70.89%
Catholic 21 9.86%
Protestant 24 11.27%
Jewish 5 2.35%
Muslim 2 0.94%
Philisophy (Such as Buddhism) 10 4.69%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 2012-05-04, 03:15 AM   [Ignore Me] #601
Figment
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Sobekeus View Post
The problem with debating religion is you can't actually have a proper debate.

What would be interesting is a reverse debate. Make the atheist play God's Advocate and the Religiosity All Star play... Not God's Advocate.
Tried that on a 'neutral' subject on another forum: Pantheon gods.

It lasted two pages before the religious realised we were using their own arguments against them (inability to disprove, sabattical gods, inconsistencies by the arbitrary attitudes, intrigue and differing characters of the Pantheon gods, forces of nature and general lack of knowledge of and interest in the subject). What was funny was that we actually could explain dinosaurs and huge fossiles better than they did by applying mythology: Hydra's, Nemean Lions, Griffons, titans, etc. could all be "shown" to live in that time period using Greek myth, whereas there's no references to such monsters in the bible.

While they could not rely on their usual method of biblical text quoting, since they had to critique. Hell, we could even state "our" religion pre-dated theirs, so it "must be more accurate" (age is after all often used that way) and there'd be little they could bring in against that that wouldn't disqualify their own arguments at the same time. Even science was on our side since we had all the big philosophers from the Classical Era.

So typically, this kind of setup won't work, the only ones interested are the agnostic and atheists (sometimes in a rather gloating and vengeful way to vent frustration of hitting brick walls of stubornness in other debates by returning the favour).

Personally I'd love to try it again, but I very much doubt you'll get enough "opposition" in the debate.
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Old 2012-05-04, 06:25 AM   [Ignore Me] #602
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Tried that on a 'neutral' subject on another forum: Pantheon gods.

It lasted two pages before the religious realised we were using their own arguments against them (inability to disprove, sabattical gods, inconsistencies by the arbitrary attitudes, intrigue and differing characters of the Pantheon gods, forces of nature and general lack of knowledge of and interest in the subject). What was funny was that we actually could explain dinosaurs and huge fossiles better than they did by applying mythology: Hydra's, Nemean Lions, Griffons, titans, etc. could all be "shown" to live in that time period using Greek myth, whereas there's no references to such monsters in the bible.

While they could not rely on their usual method of biblical text quoting, since they had to critique. Hell, we could even state "our" religion pre-dated theirs, so it "must be more accurate" (age is after all often used that way) and there'd be little they could bring in against that that wouldn't disqualify their own arguments at the same time. Even science was on our side since we had all the big philosophers from the Classical Era.

So typically, this kind of setup won't work, the only ones interested are the agnostic and atheists (sometimes in a rather gloating and vengeful way to vent frustration of hitting brick walls of stubornness in other debates by returning the favour).

Personally I'd love to try it again, but I very much doubt you'll get enough "opposition" in the debate.
I'd love to read this debate.
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Old 2012-05-04, 07:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #603
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
I'd love to read this debate.
Unfortunately, a few years back the site got hacked, the entire forum (around 20.000 topics over the entirety of the forum and around 150-200 on the philo forum) got wiped completely. :/

After that, the entirety of the old philo crew gave up on it since new "trolls" came in, restarting topics that had been debated to death already and the section never recovered really. The old crew lost interest really, we tried to set it up elsewhere, but it just wasn't the same with an incomplete debate crew and having visited all topics with these people before.

Kinda like going into a chess game and knowing which stale mate will occur when.
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Old 2012-05-04, 08:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #604
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Re: Religion


Google didn't index it?
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Old 2012-05-05, 08:23 AM   [Ignore Me] #605
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Re: Religion


The entire forum database? :/
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Old 2012-05-05, 01:03 PM   [Ignore Me] #606
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Re: Religion


Google has a habit of doing that to forums. It might be worth checking on.
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Old 2012-05-18, 02:31 AM   [Ignore Me] #607
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
Lets say everyone who doesnt believe in God is right.

What happens when we die? What happens when your momma dies? What happens when your sister dies?

I fully expect a "nothing" answer.

But this again, bothers me. Fully.
It's not "nothing". Depending on how you decide to go you may be buried and your body will decompose over years. (Your bones will stay there for a while). Or you can be cremated. These are the more standard approaches for when one dies. Some people choose to have their ashes spread someplace where the atoms that once made up every part of themselves can spread and be reused.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
When mankind can tell me EXACTLY THROUGH SCIENCE that made this entire universe, then I will believe there is no God.

Until then, You can't prove to ME there isn't one.
Sadly, for both of us, that will not be in our lifetime. Your defense is as strong as if you had made it two thousand years ago. Personally I prefer to live my life through what is observable and generally well understood. I find it relaxing knowing my life is my own even as improbable as it was. I know it might sound like arrogance from your perspective, but it's also comforting to know my mind doesn't require a defense mechanism around death, like you cling to. You seem fixated on it since you've brought it up a few times. Carpe diem.

Last edited by Sirisian; 2012-05-18 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 2012-05-18, 07:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #608
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Re: Religion


You don't pull any punches do you.
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Old 2012-05-18, 07:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #609
ItsTheSheppy
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Re: Religion


This sentence in particular:

...which will be refuted in the next five years or my faith which hasn't been questioned in the past 2000 years except for modern science, who is constantly wrong.
... baffles me. I don't even know where to begin.

I mean... really? Constantly wrong? I don't know about you but I'm rather fond of medicine and satellites and computers and physics and such.

And... your faith hasn't been questioned in 2000 years? What about... all those other religions that think you're dead wrong? They've been around a long time too.

I think we're at the point where he's just swinging for the fences.
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Old 2012-05-18, 08:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #610
Warborn
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Re: Religion


The irony of talking with people around the world on a message board and lamenting the constant wrongness of modern science is pretty delightful. People are living longer, healthier, safer lives than they ever have in the history of the human race, and it ain't because Jesus loves us so.
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Old 2012-05-18, 08:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #611
Effective
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
apparently a few God believing people have made this thread go to 46 pages

Everytime this thread dies off for more then a week, you come back and post pretty much the same stereotypical religious apologetic argument.
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Old 2012-05-19, 05:13 AM   [Ignore Me] #612
Figment
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Re: Religion


Alright people, let's have some fun. Let's not depend on Duke to argue the biblical history, let's ask a Dr! Yes indeed, someone with a degree.


We, ladies and gentlepeople, are talking about a guy with a doctorate who claims dinosaurs walked with men, because on ONE temple in Cambodia, he believes there to be a Stegosaurus depicted on the wall.

(Contemporary evidence is also present, since I once drew a Stegosaurus in grammarschool and so have other children).

Have fun!
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Old 2012-05-20, 10:37 AM   [Ignore Me] #613
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Re: Religion


Nobody?


Come on people, he's more advanced than Traak yet the holes in his story are big enough to drive a SU-14 artillery unit through!
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Old 2012-05-20, 03:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #614
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Re: Religion


It's great though, it's full of circle argumentation, full of plot holes, full of induction.
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Old 2012-05-20, 09:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #615
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Re: Religion


I'll save it for when I feel like hating someone (I can guarantee that moment isn't far off).
Exactly why I don't bother participating.
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