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Old 2013-08-07, 07:03 PM   [Ignore Me] #16
Goliith
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Re: The Oracle of Death


Oh powerful Oracle, might this peasent be blessed with the knowledge of Harrasser-grade Vulcan Vs. Enforcer Vs. Saron HRB.

For Infantry kills, and for Vehicle kills? (If the data split is possible)
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Old 2013-08-07, 07:08 PM   [Ignore Me] #17
Obstruction
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Re: The Oracle of Death


just remember that what you're recording is last hit data, with bailout suicides mixed in. phoenixes are extremely powerful, for example, taking 50% of my Lib if i don't dodge quickly enough, but they rarely get a kill on me. Strikers are much more likely to chase me for 10s around a mountain and get the last hit, in combination with flak, basilisk fire, etc.

compared to ES Air-Lock-on HA weapons and A2A missles the Striker may not be so far ahead. i'd like to see that comparison.

i'm not really defending the Striker its just that the ES specialty launchers aren't really comparable except for their release date. what you're seeing in that comparison, mostly, is how often each is used, not necessarily how good each one is. they fit different styles, and the Strikers style is basically "no skill scrub" or "zerg tactic."

again i don't really like any lock-ons at all so i'm not supporting the Striker. this is just about interpreting statistics.
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Old 2013-08-07, 07:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
maradine
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Re: The Oracle of Death


I'm glad you brought that up, as it zeroes in on an important point - raw kills as a stat doesn't necessarily account for things like weapon popularity. We can however, since I keep the whole dump, correlate popularity out of the numbers somewhat:

Code:
Striker
2205 unique killers
6641 kills
3.01kpu

Phoenix
908 unique killers
3810 kills
4.20kpu

Lancer
681 unique killers
1757 kills
2.58kpu
What I'm seeing here is that the Stirker's OP perception is equal parts lethality and popularlity, but that if the NC spammed Phoenixes like they did pre-nerf (which they perceive to be worse than it was), we'd be singing a very different tune. Lancers, of course, can't catch a break. If I was a tuner, and this was the only data I could tune on, that would be my input to the balance team. Obviously the story is more complicated than that.

Last hit data has a correlation to alpha capability, or alpha-like burst ability. In that sense, both the Phoenix and the Striker can deliver their full load very quickly, whereas the Lancer has to burn lengthy charge cycles between its full shots, or settle for reduced damage pinging.

Regardless, as long as everyone understands that these are only reflections of truth, and not truth itself, I think we'll be OK.

Originally Posted by Goliith View Post
Oh powerful Oracle, might this peasent be blessed with the knowledge of Harrasser-grade Vulcan Vs. Enforcer Vs. Saron HRB.

For Infantry kills, and for Vehicle kills? (If the data split is possible)
Kills are kills - vehicle destruction does not appear to be tracked separately. But I'll run the numbers.

Last edited by maradine; 2013-08-07 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 2013-08-07, 08:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
KesTro
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Re: The Oracle of Death


This is some really good stuff you've got here, the gaps are surprising but nothing we haven't being saying for awhile now. The KPU brought some light on the ESRL's hough.

As someone said before it'd be interesting to see the data on MAX AI weapons for a week, so I guess we'll wait. :P

Keep it up man.
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Old 2013-08-07, 08:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #20
maradine
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Re: The Oracle of Death


For Goliith:

Code:
Harasser Weapons

G20 Vulcan-H
id 6121
4,777 kills
815 unique killers
5.86kpu

Saron HRB-H
id 6126
1,702 kills
402 unique killers
4.23kpu

Enforcer ML65-H
id 6123
958 kills
270 unique killers
3.55kpu
You did mean the ML65-H, yeah? Starting to see some interesting themes here.
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Old 2013-08-07, 10:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
Goliith
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Re: The Oracle of Death


I'm not certain of the designation on the Enforcer, I was intending the Rocket launcher one, as well...the shotgun is lulz and I've never died to it, and only SEEN it once. lol

And damn, that is some surprising stats.

And of course, thank you much!

Not sure how much effort it takes you to dig up these numbers, but I was wondering if I could next request:

Mossie Vs. Reaver Vs. Scythe - For their Rotary guns, post-GU13 if possible. (Rotary/Vortek/Hailstorm)

I shall check back tomorrow at work, much thanks again for this cool system. Wish I knew coding :P
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Last edited by Goliith; 2013-08-07 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 2013-08-08, 07:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #22
PredatorFour
Major
 
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Re: The Oracle of Death


Hi Maradine, great stuff and great idea to come up with this. I would like to know the numbers between ; MSG > LANCER > JACKHAMMER

These results are very interesting and back up what many people think and have said on the forums in topics.
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Old 2013-08-08, 07:58 AM   [Ignore Me] #23
Sledgecrushr
Colonel
 
Re: The Oracle of Death


Originally Posted by PredatorFour View Post
Hi Maradine, great stuff and great idea to come up with this. I would like to know the numbers between ; MSG > LANCER > JACKHAMMER

These results are very interesting and back up what many people think and have said on the forums in topics.
MCG, Lasher, Jackhammer
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Old 2013-08-08, 08:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #24
Sledgecrushr
Colonel
 
Re: The Oracle of Death


O great oracle of death I have a question for you. What starting LMG is the greatest?
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Old 2013-08-08, 09:04 AM   [Ignore Me] #25
PredatorFour
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Re: The Oracle of Death


Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr View Post
MCG, Lasher, Jackhammer
Sorry my bad, only been fighting them since 05.
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Old 2013-08-08, 09:51 AM   [Ignore Me] #26
MFour
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Re: The Oracle of Death


Try to pull some NS weapons as well, I wonder how many NC use the Lightning for example. Or TR Halberd.
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Old 2013-08-08, 11:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #27
maradine
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Re: The Oracle of Death


That's Rotaries, HA primaries, and starting LMGs Will also include NS equivs where applicable. Gimme an hour or two. I'd love to do them from the train but someone forgot to open up the Oracle's security group to his mi-fi. >.>

Re: NC and the Lightning, I think I'd need to arrange a compound query to go back to the API and resolve the faction of each of the killer IDs. Possible, but onerous under the current API model - If it's 10,000 killers, I'd need to run 10,000 hits against them. Or pull the entire character database in the first place.

edit: scratch that, found a workaround. There be some strange stuff in here.

Last edited by maradine; 2013-08-08 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 2013-08-08, 12:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #28
Stomps
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Re: The Oracle of Death


Oracle of death, what say ye about the anti personnel mines since claymores received the blight of the great searchlight upon them? (GU13, 24 July)
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Old 2013-08-08, 12:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #29
maradine
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Re: The Oracle of Death


Originally Posted by Stomps View Post
Oracle of death, what say ye about the anti personnel mines since claymores received the blight of the great searchlight upon them? (GU13, 24 July)
Pulled that one back in post #15, though with the caveat that it might be wrong due to inconsistencies in their item database. I'll run it again when I get some clarification.

Last edited by maradine; 2013-08-08 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 2013-08-08, 12:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #30
maradine
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Re: The Oracle of Death


First of the morning's batches - the Rotary numbers. Note that I did something dangerous and actually pulled back all of the nose guns for the sake of not having to do it again later when the time window will be different.

Don't read too much into the cross-weapon-class numbers. Rather, consider the uniques a rough gauge of the popularity of that platform, and the kpu as the rough effectiveness of that weapon+frame combo. There are a lot of other variable I can't capture here, so if you're going to start a rampage on this one, at least do it in an another thread.

Code:
id 4302 Saron Laser Cannon
3867 Kills
1475 Unique Killers
2.62kpu

id 4304 Hailstorm Turbo Laser
11862 Kills
1920 Unique Killers
6.18kpu

id 4305 Light PPA
4403 Kills
611 Unique Killers
7.2kpu

=============

id 4600 M20 Mustang
3088 Kills
1153 Unique Killers
2.67kpu

id 4604 Vortek Rotary
10530 Kills
1670 Unique Killers
6.30kpu

id 4605 M30 Mustang AH
1763 Kills
295 Unique Killers
5.98kpu

=============

id 4900 M18 Needler
3981 Kills
1458 Unique Killers
2.73kpu

id 4906 M14 Banshee
5299 Kills
556 Unique Killers
9.58kpu

id 4911 M18 Rotary
14180 Kills
2109 Unique Killers
6.72kpu
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