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View Poll Results: What do you identify yourself as?
Atheist/Skeptic/Agnostic 151 70.89%
Catholic 21 9.86%
Protestant 24 11.27%
Jewish 5 2.35%
Muslim 2 0.94%
Philisophy (Such as Buddhism) 10 4.69%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 2012-04-08, 11:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #511
Sirisian
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
Why are you so adament that you are so right and completely troll someone else who disagrees?
Can't speak for everyone, but I'm just here for the discussion. Not trying to troll, just showing the Atheist viewpoint on matters of religion. It's a way of looking at life and the universe that can take a while to fully grasp.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
I am one of two things.. I am either extremely and utterly fucking ignorant to every extent of man's knowledge. OR... I am right with thousands of years of history behind me. Then I have faith....
I think realizing that one knows very little about current science is a good first step. That initial flame of inquiry should be fed. Research and learn and expand on it. If you have a question find answers. You aren't alone in that endeavor. History is good to learn from, but remember to move on also into the unknown. The future has a lot of unknowns that require inquisitive minds to unravel.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
Facing death and not at least thinking you will see them again...... I would love to speak to this person in person. I would find them a complete sociopath honestly.
I'm sure many Atheists would like to see their friends or relatives again. However, there is a normal step of acceptance even if not everyone follows the same steps to get there. If grief interferes with one's life for an extended period of time I'd probably direct them to therapy or to talk about it more instead of bottling up feelings. If it helps I recently lost one of my best friends (can't remember if I mentioned that earlier) and there is a level of acceptance. The funeral for me was my point of acceptance, but isn't the same for everyone. I know for one of my friends it hit them really hard since they saw him just a few hours earlier.
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Old 2012-04-09, 01:28 AM   [Ignore Me] #512
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Re: Religion


Duke, I can tell you one thing: history is NOT behind you, since you make it up as you go. You seem to reason like an anti-intellectual, which quite frankly, is a dumb position to hold, pun intended. You don't think you have to be right in a debate and back up anything you say, you just feel right, so then you must be right, right? No, that is not how things work in a debate.

To the poster defending Duke, the point he and you try to make are both based on self-deluding circle argumentation and wishful thinking. Try to understand that some of us prefer to face reality than to Memento Mori and waste our lives in hope of some none existing afterlife. You say it is that simple, to just believe. Is it then so hard to provide any reason to do so? Consistency with facts. Consistency with itself. Consistency with observations? None of those goes, so why would anyone aside from those unable to accept death have any reason to believe?
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Old 2012-04-09, 01:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #513
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
Why can't you people accept (YOU PEOPLE) that their might be something higher out there than you and your books
Why can't you people accept there might not be something higher out there?

Why do you fight so hard to discredit it..... WHY?!
Because this is a religious debate thread.

Also, because people who believe like you try to use that ancient text to dictate my life, dictate the sciences, dictate laws, etc.


Why are you so adament that you are so right and completely troll someone else who disagrees?
Because we have facts. You merely have faith. Faith just makes you feel nice. It doesn't tell you anything useful.

I tell you things about everything, and you dismiss it with logic that has been presented by modern day intellect... You spit out wiki links and other things that has also been written by every day people
And you dismiss with logic that has been presented by ancient intellect. You spit out bible passage and things that have been written by everyday people long ago.
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Old 2012-04-09, 05:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #514
Figment
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Why can't you people accept there might not be something higher out there?
That would go against everything they've convinced themselves of in the past years. His entire world and frame of reference would collapse.

Because this is a religious debate thread.
Indeed. Debate, which brings us to the other point, in the Duke-quote posted above, Duke argues that he brings "knowledge" (LOL, knowledge, yeah...) and then COMPLAINS THAT WE USE LOGIC, KNOWLEDGE AND ARGUMENTS.

ZOMG HOW EVIL OF US. D:


And you dismiss with logic that has been presented by ancient intellect. You spit out bible passage and things that have been written by everyday people long ago.
Tbh, Duke doesn't make that grade of logic and doesn't do them justice. I've seen far, far better representations of religious views in debates.

For instance, there was one who made for some interesting debate - though requiring the logic of circle argumentation as starting point ("there is a god, [...], therefore there is a god") and prefered the concept of Intelligent Design. That's his to believe, of course in the actual debate, the concept of ID itself was consistently under fire, as were other things. Note, it went as deep as trying to find alternative explanations to the walls of Jericho (Jericho actually lies on a natural fault line, much like San Francisco).

He however, was critical and did not dismiss our arguments off hand. He was willing to debate, look at both sides and bring up a large amount of source materials he uses as reference. The only thing was that he still used induction as a primary method of reasoning and never dismissed the chance that a divine entity used natural forces to make stuff happen. Of course we had to disagree.

But for instance, he admitted he could not deduce Christianity or any other faith from scratch using just observations of the natural world. However, he argued that everything he observed, fitted with his frame of reference if he started with the starting point of a god. There are people in this thread who'd not be willing to admit to anything.

In the end, we still respectfully disagreed as he based his faith on "personal experience" which we could not hold up for scrutiny since he would not share it and if he had, we'd not be able to verify it. But overal the debate was much more intellectual and satisfying and basically all the big topics were handled. The point of the debate is not to convert, but to exchange ideas and hold things up for scrutiny. Unfortunately for the religious, they are usualy pushed into the defense without much ammunition for rebutal.

Mind, Christianity is often the center point of debate due to the amount of Christians on Western internet sites (especially the evangelicals), but we also debated Sumerian mythology, Norse, Greek, pagan American and Indian religions.



If only religions had more fact based and could use natural observations to their advantage...

Duke's posts though seem the ramblings of a drunk man, not a philosopher, or someone willing to at least be open to alternative interpretations and being able to admit he might be wrong.

Last edited by Figment; 2012-04-09 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 2012-04-09, 07:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #515
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Re: Religion


Some people just need to be lead, to be followers. No matter how silly the doctrine sounds, someone will buy it for 49.95 with a FREE leather cover and BONUS bookmark. Inscribed names are 0.45 a letter.
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Old 2012-04-09, 09:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #516
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Re: Religion


This thread is still kickin eh?

If I didn't know any better I'd say the world revolves around Duke. Do you seriously think most of us here haven't lost someone near and dear to our heart Duke? I don't know anyone who hasn't!
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Old 2012-04-09, 06:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #517
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Elude View Post
This thread is still kickin eh?

If I didn't know any better I'd say the world revolves around Duke. Do you seriously think most of us here haven't lost someone near and dear to our heart Duke? I don't know anyone who hasn't!
No, as atheists we have no souls, therefore cannot love anyone but ourselves in our greed!
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Old 2012-04-09, 07:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #518
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
Facing death and not at least thinking you will see them again...... I would love to speak to this person in person. I would find them a complete sociopath honestly.
Then hello, I am Mr. Sociopath.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
I've been through hell.. I've been TO hell..
And? Do you think you're the only one? Most people go through hell at some point in their lives (I'm assuming you're speaking metaphorically), and I'm willing to bet there's plenty of people who have a far worse hell than yours.
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Old 2012-04-09, 08:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #519
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Re: Religion


Guys, guys. There's only one person who went through hell: Dante.


Well okay, him and Hercules. And Odysseus. And Persephone. And Guybrush Threepwood, well, pirate hell in Tales of Monkey Island™ 5-5...

I'm sure I forgot a few billion who gone through hell on earth, how inconsiderate of me. Luckily I'm a sociopath for regretting to never be able to talk to and hold loved ones ever again and accepting that life also has its shortcomings. To make an understatement. But surely the only logical thing to do is not honour their memory, while moving on, as difficult as it is and instead pretend they are not gone at all, but frolicking about in some sort of geriatric heaven or hospital where they treat cancers and reattach limbs, especially if they got under a train. Oh wait, they are almost always in their prime in heaven, not?

You'd almost think that sounds to good to be true.

Want me to go on? I got some more nifty Reaping and ressurection cynicisms where those came from...

Last edited by Figment; 2012-04-09 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 2012-04-10, 09:03 AM   [Ignore Me] #520
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Re: Religion


Speaking of Hercules... I wonder if Duke knows what the two stripes in the $-sign stand for.

Hint 1: it has a mythological origin
Hint 2: it is derived from the Spanish dollar
Hint 3: it is definitely NOT of Christian origin
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Old 2012-04-10, 05:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #521
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Guys, guys. There's only one person who went through hell: Dante.


Well okay, him and Hercules. And Odysseus. And Persephone. And Guybrush Threepwood, well, pirate hell in Tales of Monkey Island™ 5-5...
I went through hell quite a few times with my Barbarian.
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Old 2012-04-10, 09:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #522
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
If I'm right, you get a firey lake of hell.
You know Duke, it's shit like that right there that puts people off it right?

If you don't like what I like, you get damnation.

Hell isn't real, it's a tool used by the church and the religious to keep order.

Just stop posting man. It's time to stop posting.
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Old 2012-04-10, 09:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #523
Effective
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
Never going to get through to you guys.

Going to stop trying.



You all know I am at least AS intelligent as you, every one of you. That said, me choosing to believe in a higher power should make you at least stop and think about the possibility.

It won't. It's cool.

If I'm right, you get a firey lake of hell. If I'm wrong, we all just go to sleep forever. Either way, in the end. I win. Period.

GG, thanks for playing. Good night.
Most of us acknowledge that a higher power is indeed possible. But so are flaming pink invisible unicorns. Your haven't had a single good argument in this thread. Period. There is no "winning". For example, what if we're both wrong and another religion is right, you go to that religions hell. Or what if we're all wrong and no one has been worshiping the correct religion! Then everyone goes to hell.

Stop posting and wasting our time.
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Old 2012-04-10, 10:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #524
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
If I'm right, you get a firey lake of hell. If I'm wrong, we all just go to sleep forever. Either way, in the end. I win. Period.
Pascal's wager doesn't work for religion. This was mentioned already. Think about it. It's not hard to understand why it can't apply.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
That said, me choosing to believe in a higher power should make you at least stop and think about the possibility.
I think you missed the concept. If there's evidence for something most Atheists will switch assuming it's peer reviewed and trustworthy. It's actually the prime reason why some Atheists will label themselves "Agnostic Atheist" to make this point explicit. It's verbose and often opens up for theists attacks on the ground of what "Agnostic" means to them.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
You all know I am at least AS intelligent as you, every one of you.
I don't want to make this a personal attack, but you sound insecure. Like it's more of a hope, than a certainty. I can admit you might be more intelligent than me in a field other than math and computer science if that helps.
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Old 2012-04-11, 08:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #525
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Re: Religion


I have heard far more convincing arguments than the ones you have supplied Duke. I'm still Ignostic.
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