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Old 2013-01-26, 03:39 AM   [Ignore Me] #31
EvilNinjadude
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Originally Posted by Higby View Post
Someone asked me what the VS got as an empire advantage, that tweet was an answer to that question - not a declaration of impending nerfs.

IF we change the Magrider it wouldn't be any sort of change to it's maneuverability at all, that's what they're SUPPOSED to do.

We are considering some MBT changes though, including potentially

Removing or reducing magrider front armor since Magriders always have their front facing the things they're fighting, so the front armor bonus scales a bit better for them compared to the other two tanks.

Increasing the muzzle velocity for Vanguard cannons, this would help them be more effective at standoff ranges vs the other tanks, especially the Magrider, and it fits with the NC MO.

Prowlers are only performing very, very slightly below magriders in general right now, so we think they're probably alright, but if anything they might get a minor damage increase to AP and HEAT rounds.

We're still playing with these changes internally, so it's not by any means a done deal.
Let this be a Lesson to all the people who claim that Magriders are not OP.

Glad you guys are taking a Buff-not-nerf approach and are trying to see the problem from as many sides as possible.
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Old 2013-01-26, 04:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #32
Canaris
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Originally Posted by Higby View Post
Someone asked me what the VS got as an empire advantage, that tweet was an answer to that question - not a declaration of impending nerfs.

IF we change the Magrider it wouldn't be any sort of change to it's maneuverability at all, that's what they're SUPPOSED to do.

We are considering some MBT changes though, including potentially

Removing or reducing magrider front armor since Magriders always have their front facing the things they're fighting, so the front armor bonus scales a bit better for them compared to the other two tanks.

Increasing the muzzle velocity for Vanguard cannons, this would help them be more effective at standoff ranges vs the other tanks, especially the Magrider, and it fits with the NC MO.

Prowlers are only performing very, very slightly below magriders in general right now, so we think they're probably alright, but if anything they might get a minor damage increase to AP and HEAT rounds.

We're still playing with these changes internally, so it's not by any means a done deal.
*gets down on his knees with his hands clasped together in pleading* please for the love of Democracy can you test out or let us test out a Prowler with centralised cannons, pwwwweeeeeaaaassssseeeeee
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Old 2013-01-26, 04:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #33
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Originally Posted by Higby View Post
Prowlers are only performing very, very slightly below magriders in general right now, so we think they're probably alright, but if anything they might get a minor damage increase to AP and HEAT rounds.
Oh, aye. "Very, very slightly"... Just like "soon(TM)". The Prowler's design still has flaws, which have been pointed out more than once. Give us a centralized turret, then we can talk about other buffs. A minor damage increase will do nothing to actually balance out the Prowler, especially considering that the anchor mode is so very, very bad when compared to the speed boost and shield. It still goes against everything the Prowler stands for, getting up close as fast as possible.
If that's what you guys ment when you made the comment about buffing the Prowler then colour me severely dissapointed.

The potential changes to the Vanguard and Magrider look more promising.
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Last edited by ChipMHazard; 2013-01-26 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 2013-01-26, 06:28 AM   [Ignore Me] #34
Larington
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Perhaps they should just take away the lock down aspect of the prowlers ability, just a timed thing like the vanguard shield is timed.

Me, I've lately found myself wishing I could fit the AI gun on my lightning (even without an alt gun) so I can run it as an escort tank for the heavier ones.

Last edited by Larington; 2013-01-26 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 2013-01-26, 06:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #35
Rothnang
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


The Magrider doesn't need a nerf, because it's only better at low skill levels. When you're fighting against a Vanguard driver who actually knows what the hell he's doing he's going to kick the Magriders ass every time. You know why? Because his tank is numerically better, and has an invulnerability shield.

Sure, when you're dealing with someone who just turns the turret as the Magrider blows past him and then goes "Whoah, unfair, he's hitting my back armor while I'm still shooting his front", yea, the Magrider is really overpowered against that idiot. The second you're dealing with someone who turns the hull to keep the Magrider perpetually facing his front armor no matter where it goes, oh hey, Vanguard wins.

I really don't like balancing for peoples inability.
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Old 2013-01-26, 07:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #36
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Ah, the good old blame the players.
You did however fail to mention that Magriders are able to dodge incoming fire more easily than other MBTs the further away they are from each other. I highly doubt that a good Vanguard player will always win against an equally good Magrider player based solely on the Vanguard having the shield ability and dealing more damage. You have to be able to hit your opponent for your higher damage per shot to matter.
Making sure that when other tanks do hit the Magrider it hurst more, from the front, would be one way to handle it.

Both the Vanguard and Magrider have an effecient way to avoid taking damage, via the shield and speed boost/mobility respectively. Something the Prowler lacks.
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Last edited by ChipMHazard; 2013-01-26 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 2013-01-26, 07:31 AM   [Ignore Me] #37
Archonzero
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Uh, Chip that's exactly why Magriders (good ones) opt to engage from long range.. also part of the Vanu faction strength, long range + mobility.

Someone else mentioned something about a lack of main gun rounds.. step away from the crack pipe please. The drop trajectory is practically the same as the vanguards, if anything the magrider's maingun angles of elevation are much more limited. Just to clarify to the crack smokers, I'm referring to up an down angle of attack. We have a great range for down angle firing, which is why most magriders are successful for high ground attacking.

Second, mobility + ABoost is our only survival key in open warfare. We cannot "hull down" to use terrain as a shield for operating our maingun. This is most likely why the SARON seems so powerful to other factions, if we do hull down. It's the only weapon in which we can attack back with, which effectively reduces our attack strength down to 1/3. HRB rounds does 1/2 dmg when compared to a maingun round. So again if you think the SARON is OP lay off the crack pipe.

Another person spoke up about Mag pilots with Sarons, most magriders run with 2/2 an are fitted as TANK HUNTERS. That is our outfitted primary role, killing armor. Not HE spamming infantry. Any Prowler/Vanguard fitted for tank hunting operations an seated with 2/2 is just as effective.

An Chip, I have a fitted AT Vanguard on my NC toon an I do incredibly well against 2/2 Magriders (at all ranges) even when I operate it as 1/2 manned. The heavy shield is very handy, but shot placement, shot prediction and understanding your opponents movement pattern are key to success.

Last edited by Archonzero; 2013-01-26 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 2013-01-26, 07:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #38
ChipMHazard
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Originally Posted by Archonzero View Post
Uh, Chip that's exactly why Magriders (good ones) opt to engage from long range.. also part of the Vanu faction strength, long range + mobility.

Second, mobility + ABoost is our only survival key in open warfare. We cannot "hull down" to use terrain as a shield for operating our maingun. This is most likely why the SARON seems so powerful to other factions, if we do hull down. It's the only weapon in which we can attack back with, which effectively reduces our attack strength down to 1/3. HRB rounds does 1/2 dmg when compared to a maingun round. So again if you think the SARON is OP lay off the crack pipe.

Another person spoke up about Mag pilots with Sarons, most magriders run with 2/2 an are fitted as TANK HUNTERS. That is our outfitted primary role, killing armor. Not HE spamming infantry. Any Prowler/Vanguard fitted for tank hunting operations an seated with 2/2 is just as effective.

I have a fitted AT, Vanguard on my NC toon an it does incredibly well against 2/2 Magriders, even when I operate it solo. The heavy shield is very handy, shot placement an movement prediction when facing a magrider is key to success.
I know. My comment was about disproving that a good Vanguard player will always win against a good Magrider player. Which is just silly because of that very reason.

I only rarely saw anyone trying to hull down and there's only so much space to go around to allow for that tactic in large scale engagements. Basing the design around wanting players to hull down is just a bad idea, especially because of Esamir.
I don't believe that the Prowler has somehow become just as overall effective as the Vanguard and the Magrider since my absence. You have to get very close for the Vulcan to be effective and the recoil on the main cannons haven't been tweaked yet. So it can still be a pain to land both rounds.

It was the most powerful secondary weapon at the time when I stopped playing. It was a sniper. If that's has changed then ok.

Vanguards are great tanks, no question about it. I don't believe that they are as overall effective as the Magriders, but pretty darn close. I've never really used the Vanguard, only the Magrider and Prowler. So I'll defer to your experience on the matter of the Vanguards effectiveness.
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Last edited by ChipMHazard; 2013-01-26 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 2013-01-26, 07:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #39
artifice
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Originally Posted by Higby View Post
Someone asked me what the VS got as an empire advantage, that tweet was an answer to that question - not a declaration of impending nerfs.

IF we change the Magrider it wouldn't be any sort of change to it's maneuverability at all, that's what they're SUPPOSED to do.

We are considering some MBT changes though, including potentially

Removing or reducing magrider front armor since Magriders always have their front facing the things they're fighting, so the front armor bonus scales a bit better for them compared to the other two tanks.

Increasing the muzzle velocity for Vanguard cannons, this would help them be more effective at standoff ranges vs the other tanks, especially the Magrider, and it fits with the NC MO.

Prowlers are only performing very, very slightly below magriders in general right now, so we think they're probably alright, but if anything they might get a minor damage increase to AP and HEAT rounds.

We're still playing with these changes internally, so it's not by any means a done deal.
I would recommend stabilizers on the Vanguard and Prowler primary weapons. This would allow them to move and fire at the same time without every little bump in the road messing up the aim. They wouldn't be as manueverable as the Magrider, but it would help in that regard. I really doubt the future involves a regression in gyro technology.

Last edited by artifice; 2013-01-26 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 2013-01-26, 07:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #40
psijaka
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Speaking as someone who plays NC dual AV MAX a lot, I am much more wary of Magriders than of Prowlers; they seem to be able to get anywhere and their strafe ability + low profile makes them a tough nut to crack.

Edit - I do think that the NC AV MAX is a tad OP, but only against infantry at medium range; and definately not against tanks, especially the Magrider.

Last edited by psijaka; 2013-01-26 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 2013-01-26, 08:02 AM   [Ignore Me] #41
almalino
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Originally Posted by psijaka View Post
Speaking as someone who plays NC AV MAX, I am much more wary of Magriders than of Prowlers; they seem to be able to get anywhere and their strafe ability + low profile makes them a tough nut to crack.

A modest agility nerf is a reasonable and necessary step for SoE to take.
As a regular Vanguard/Lighting driver I even do not try to engage against Magraiders because it is useless ammo waste. I cannot hit them whatever I tried. They always escape.

Though yesterday I managed to kill one because, apparently, he forgot about its strafing ability May be some newbie
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Old 2013-01-26, 08:10 AM   [Ignore Me] #42
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Originally Posted by Archonzero View Post
We cannot "hull down" to use terrain as a shield for operating our maingun.
Actually, you can. But not in the traditional sense. You need to drive up a shallow incline to tilt the tank backwards and then you can poke your main gun just over the ridge. Since it is mounted at the very front you are hull down to the enemy. The downside is that the secondary gun cannot angle down that far and becomes useless, which is why I rarely use it.
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Old 2013-01-26, 08:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #43
Rothnang
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Originally Posted by ChipMHazard View Post
You did however fail to mention that Magriders are able to dodge incoming fire more easily than other MBTs the further away they are from each other. I highly doubt that a good Vanguard player will always win against an equally good Magrider player based solely on the Vanguard having the shield ability and dealing more damage. You have to be able to hit your opponent for your higher damage per shot to matter.
Making sure that when other tanks do hit the Magrider it hurst more, from the front, would be one way to handle it.

If you're so far away from an enemy tank that not all shots are hits there is really no way you should ever die to another tank. In what kind of battle are you getting into long range fights with a Magrider, where admittedly it has an advantage, and then you just stand there while the Magrider has his way with you until you die?

In order to produce a tank on tank kill someone has to be close enough to deny you cover and repairs, and when you're that close it should be pretty trivial to hit a gigantic tank even if it does move left and right a bit.


I mean, the reason why the mag riders long range advantage IMO doesn't at all translate into an overpowered tank is that only someone who is incredibly reckless should ever die in a long range tank battle. If the enemy has no way to follow you around that big rock you just drove behind to put a new paint job on then how can he possibly kill you? I have yet to lose a Magrider, Lighting or Vanguard in a long range battle, I mean, out of all the possible ways to lose a tank that is easily the most avoidable one.

Last edited by Rothnang; 2013-01-26 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 2013-01-26, 08:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #44
ChipMHazard
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Originally Posted by Rothnang View Post
If you're so far away from an enemy tank that not all shots are hits there is really no way you should ever die to another tank. In what kind of battle are you getting into long range fights with a Magrider, where admittedly it has an advantage, and then you just stand there while the Magrider has his way with you until you die?

In order to produce a tank on tank kill someone has to be close enough to deny you cover and repairs, and when you're that close it should be pretty trivial to hit a gigantic tank.
Well, the problem with trying to get closer to an enemy tank, especially when it comes to Magriders, is they are also driving further away to keep the gap as much as possible.
Trying to close the gap quickly is especially fatal during large engagements.

That's how most of the larger engagements were being fought before I left, at least on Amerish and Esamir.
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Last edited by ChipMHazard; 2013-01-26 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 2013-01-26, 08:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #45
Aveox
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Re: The Impending Magrider Nerf.


Originally Posted by ChipMHazard View Post
You did however fail to mention that Magriders are able to dodge incoming fire more easily than other MBTs the further away they are from each other.
Rotate tank body so the side faces your enemy and drive forward/backwards to dodge.
I can do that in a Lightning. Surely it must be possible with a Vanguard and Prowler as well?
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