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Old 2012-06-10, 01:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Ieyasu
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Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


I have seen where Higby has said before that there will be adjustable FOV up to 90 degrees. This is unfortunate imho as myself and others who have multi monitor setups will be unable to get the correct fov to use with our systems.

I understand that having a couple extra additional monitors is viewed by some (mainly those who do not or can not run such setups) as being an unfair advantage. I find this odd as I dont see those same people calling for lack of surround sound in the game because some people will only have stereo speakers. Positional audio can be a huge help in fps games but doesnt seem to be attacked with anywhere near the ferocity that multi monitor support seems to get.

It just seems like the same old tired arguments that gamers where making when they were opposed to people having widescreen monitors when those hit the market or when people use mice with more buttons than theirs have. Some people dont want to drop 2k on a system but some of us dont mind doing so. Why punish us because others choose not to or are unable to use some of the newest tech available?

people will always have a tech advantage on others. whether it is because theyre playing on a screen with 2560x1600 resolution vs someone on a 1024x768 or if they have a quad core i7 cpu and the other person has a pentium 4 660. I just dont see the point in blocking people form using the tech that they have choosen to pay for.
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Old 2012-06-10, 02:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
I have seen where Higby has said before that there will be adjustable FOV up to 90 degrees. This is unfortunate imho as myself and others who have multi monitor setups will be unable to get the correct fov to use with our systems.

I understand that having a couple extra additional monitors is viewed by some (mainly those who do not or can not run such setups) as being an unfair advantage. I find this odd as I dont see those same people calling for lack of surround sound in the game because some people will only have stereo speakers. Positional audio can be a huge help in fps games but doesnt seem to be attacked with anywhere near the ferocity that multi monitor support seems to get.

It just seems like the same old tired arguments that gamers where making when they were opposed to people having widescreen monitors when those hit the market or when people use mice with more buttons than theirs have. Some people dont want to drop 2k on a system but some of us dont mind doing so. Why punish us because others choose not to or are unable to use some of the newest tech available?

people will always have a tech advantage on others. whether it is because theyre playing on a screen with 2560x1600 resolution vs someone on a 1024x768 or if they have a quad core i7 cpu and the other person has a pentium 4 660. I just dont see the point in blocking people form using the tech that they have choosen to pay for.

Personally, I fully agree with you. If I could play Planetside 2 on a full size 15 foot parabolic simulator screen with a 270 degree field of view, I would. But I settle for a single monitor setup with an awesome surround sound system because as you said, the audio is a huge advantage. Multiple monitors just isn't as practical to me. However, I have no issue whatsoever with someone who feels like spending their money on that particular setup playing with a wider field of view. Being able to see a little more may mean they're less likely to be blindsided, but either way you have the advantage of surprise if you're attacking them with anything other than a knife. Faster internet connection, faster GPU/CPU, more RAM, less alcohol...there's a wide variety of factors and advantage/disadvantages that factor into who kills whom. Drink up and play on!
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Old 2012-06-10, 03:04 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
RedKnights
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


I would be very surprised if a game backed by Nvidia did not take advantage of it's multi-monitor tech.
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Old 2012-06-10, 09:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


Originally Posted by RedKnights View Post
I would be very surprised if a game backed by Nvidia did not take advantage of it's multi-monitor tech.
so would I, but with a capped fov of 90 running a resolution of 5760x1080 wouldnt be much of an option.

I would like to see the devs open up the FOV limitation as they dont appear to have any plans to lock people down to simply using stereo sound in a lame attempt to even out the playing field.
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Old 2012-06-10, 09:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
DviddLeff
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


Agreed I am considering an eyefinity set up if PS2 supports it.
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Old 2012-06-10, 03:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


It's not *only* about what's an advantage vs. people who don't have technology X.

It's also about how expensive it is to attain technology X and how prevalent it already is.

Plenty of people have surround sound audio systems, and if they don't, it's just a cheapo $20 pair of desktop speakers away since virtually every motherboard manufactured in the last, like, 10 years has the integrated Realtek HDA or equivalent.

For Eyefinity/nVidia Surround, though, you're talking about requiring a multiple GPU setup and 3 monitors to get access to that advantage. So for the vast majority of users, that's 2-3 new monitors (depending on whether the model they already own is still available to get two more), another video card, and probably replacing the motherboard.

The developers want the game to not have the stigma of being pay to win. Just because the $1000 upgrade that gives people an advantage is going to hardware manufacturers instead of the game publisher/developers, doesn't mean that's not pay to win.

And I say this as a guy with SLI already, and whose next hardware upgrade in the fall is going to be the monitors to run nVidia Surround. I don't want my rig's ability to support a huge FOV to translate into an advantage over people who can't afford that.

If you're that upset over all your money going to waste -- throw your monitors into portrait mode to get the same pixel-count at a 27:16 ratio (which would look absolutely fine within normal FOV ranges) instead of chasing the FOV advantage with a 48:9 aspect ratio.
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Old 2012-06-10, 03:11 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


If you want to use 3 monitors and nvidia surround or whatever in PS2, go ahead... you probably can. But to ask the devs design the game so that just because you use this setup, you have a "natural" advatage over those that don't, it's pretty effing arrogant and.. well, I'm not going to finish that sentence as it a discussion not suited for these forums... Anyway... I hope the devs wont cater to the "rich".
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Old 2012-06-10, 03:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


Good post Kaffis.

In the name of "fair play" it makes sense to cater for a more widely available and, more importantly, used setup. That said, the edge it gives is debatable and as pointed out other technological concerns often factor in too.

I find fault with the comparison between this and computer specification though.

If you have a lower specification PC then it means you are at detriment when compared to the intended design. However the multi-monitor setup allows you benefit beyond the intended design.

This of course is on the basis that the design intent is for a singular monitor setup, which would seem prominent by the 90' FOV limitation.

I suppose that is the crux of it; I think many people take offence to the idea that you would like a potential additional advantage on top of the fact that others may already be at a disadvantage.

Not hugely fussed either way personally.
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Old 2012-06-10, 07:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
Ieyasu
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


Originally Posted by kaffis View Post
It's not *only* about what's an advantage vs. people who don't have technology X.

It's also about how expensive it is to attain technology X and how prevalent it already is.

Plenty of people have surround sound audio systems, and if they don't, it's just a cheapo $20 pair of desktop speakers away since virtually every motherboard manufactured in the last, like, 10 years has the integrated Realtek HDA or equivalent.

For Eyefinity/nVidia Surround, though, you're talking about requiring a multiple GPU setup and 3 monitors to get access to that advantage. So for the vast majority of users, that's 2-3 new monitors (depending on whether the model they already own is still available to get two more), another video card, and probably replacing the motherboard.

The developers want the game to not have the stigma of being pay to win. Just because the $1000 upgrade that gives people an advantage is going to hardware manufacturers instead of the game publisher/developers, doesn't mean that's not pay to win.
you can run eyefinty from a single card for the past 2 generation of amd/ati and current gen nvidia 6 series gpus. you can also toss 3 22" monitors together for about 350$ I can build an eyefinity setup today for around 600$

how is my running 5760x1080 a huge advantage over someone running 1920x1080 (relatively common res nowadays) compared to someone running 2560x1200 vs someone else on 800x600 monitor resolution? Think its pretty clear from your post that you are one of the ones who cannot afford a setup so dont want others to be able to use theirs...
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Old 2012-06-10, 08:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
you can run eyefinty from a single card for the past 2 generation of amd/ati and current gen nvidia 6 series gpus. you can also toss 3 22" monitors together for about 350$ I can build an eyefinity setup today for around 600$

how is my running 5760x1080 a huge advantage over someone running 1920x1080 (relatively common res nowadays) compared to someone running 2560x1200 vs someone else on 800x600 monitor resolution? Think its pretty clear from your post that you are one of the ones who cannot afford a setup so dont want others to be able to use theirs...
...

What part of "Yes, I could go and order some cheap monitors today, but am waiting for the fall to get IPS monitors" says that I'm "one of the ones who cannot afford a setup so don't want others to use theirs..."? Unless, you know, you're just outright calling me a liar, in which case you're just rude instead of incapable of (or unwilling to try) reading. Or trolling, I suppose.

The advantage of the 5760 horizontal resolution doesn't come from the resolution itself, but in the ability to run wider fields of view. "Virtual" peripheral vision is very advantageous when you're playing games where threats can come from any direction, and that's what widening the Field of View gives you. Your 3-monitor setup with a 225 degree FOV lets you see the Light Assault sneaking up on you from the side, or allows you to actually SEE forward in your tank while you've got the turret rotated 90 degrees without messing with freelook controls.

I don't think I can spell it out any more than that why this is an obvious advantage over somebody not able to drop your $600. Which, by the way -- yes, the latest and greatest cards can run it without a dual-card setup, sure; but not as well as dual cards and they're expensive cards to boot. So whether you spend $500 on a new GeForce 680 or $200 on a new motherboard and then $300 on a second of whatever your prior graphics card was, you've still dropped half a grand before even getting the monitors to upgrade your non-Eyefinity/Surround computer.

And maybe you're just fine with that. But take a look at Planetside 1 and its population even before its graphics were dated. That's the potential market for a game that requires a higher than normal financial investment from an FPS player -- for PS1 it was a subscription. If you go and make all the people not willing to put in a higher than normal financial investment not want to lose to people who are... you'll get the same degree of "success" that PS1 did. And I'd rather play against jam-packed servers full of players who are drawn in by a free game that their computer can run competitively as-is.

Last edited by kaffis; 2012-06-10 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 2012-06-10, 09:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


People are entirely too worried about balance/advantages. Can't turn off cockpits, its an advantage, can't have track ir, advantaged, can't have colorblind mode, it'll be an advantage.

Just play the game. You'll never notice.
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Old 2012-06-10, 09:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


Originally Posted by kaffis View Post
...

What part of "Yes, I could go and order some cheap monitors today, but am waiting for the fall to get IPS monitors" says that I'm "one of the ones who cannot afford a setup so don't want others to use theirs..."? Unless, you know, you're just outright calling me a liar, in which case you're just rude instead of incapable of (or unwilling to try) reading. Or trolling, I suppose.
lol the part when you complained about the associated costs. I dont know you, but I know from your previous post that 1. you didnt know the actual associated costs with getting a multi monitor setup running and 2. that you dont have enough to have one now.

why wait till the fall to pick up ips monitors again? does your ips having better colors or faster response time give you an unfair advantage over someoene with a 5 year old lcd with 10ms response? As I said before the people who tend to be opposed to these things are usually the ones who cannot afford to run them themselves. I for example run 3 monitors and wouldnt mind in the least if someone else wanted to run 6.
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Old 2012-06-10, 09:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
lol the part when you complained about the associated costs. I dont know you, but I know from your previous post that 1. you didnt know the actual associated costs with getting a multi monitor setup running and 2. that you dont have enough to have one now.

why wait till the fall to pick up ips monitors again? does your ips having better colors or faster response time give you an unfair advantage over someoene with a 5 year old lcd with 10ms response? As I said before the people who tend to be opposed to these things are usually the ones who cannot afford to run them themselves. I for example run 3 monitors and wouldnt mind in the least if someone else wanted to run 6.
It's very simple. I don't put lifestyle expenses on credit. Also, I enjoy image quality (it's why I look to push resolution -- it looks better), and a big part of that is color fidelity, gamut, and brilliance. IPS trumps TN for that. Could I drop $450 on a few decent TN monitors tomorrow? Yes. But then, I'd just be looking to replace them as soon as I saved up to drop $1200 on IPS. So I'll just save up to drop the money on the good stuff in the first place.

The other advantage to IPS monitors? They won't look like crap if I decide to put them in a portrait-orientation multi-monitor setup. You know, as would be the smart decision if the devs agree with me on whether or not enabling large FOV is a smart move for the game's overall health.
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Old 2012-06-10, 09:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
Ieyasu
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


Originally Posted by kaffis View Post
It's very simple. I don't put lifestyle expenses on credit. Also, I enjoy image quality (it's why I look to push resolution -- it looks better), and a big part of that is color fidelity, gamut, and brilliance. IPS trumps TN for that. Could I drop $450 on a few decent TN monitors tomorrow? Yes. But then, I'd just be looking to replace them as soon as I saved up to drop $1200 on IPS. So I'll just save up to drop the money on the good stuff in the first place.

The other advantage to IPS monitors? They won't look like crap if I decide to put them in a portrait-orientation multi-monitor setup. You know, as would be the smart decision if the devs agree with me on whether or not enabling large FOV is a smart move for the game's overall health.
oh I know the benefit of ips monitors I have some myself. bought them about a year ago. Im all for people using them, but I wouldnt choose to not use one because other people cannot afford to buy them. I also didnt feel bad when I was one of hte first people I knew to pick up a widescreen lcd even though others told me that it was an unfair advantage and many games at the time didnt support widescreen resolutions. The trick is for devs and gamers to get with the times and not drag everyone down to the lowest common denominators level in an effort to force "fairness". Imagine if gamer developers never embraced widescreen... I can pull up old forums from years ago where people had heated debates over it.

at the end of the day it makes for a more immersive gameplay experience which is what I am after. Why punish those with money now (and not this fall) who are willing to spend it on tech that is not only supported by the 2 major gpu manufacturers today but touted by both as a selling point?
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Old 2012-06-10, 09:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
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Re: Eyefinity and Surround Vision Support?


People who think everyone should be forced into using the same or similar hardware should hop over to Xbox Live or PSN for their fps fix.

Computer gaming has forever been a technological arms race. Does not appear to be changing in the near future either.
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