Reaver a two seater now? [Archive]

BorisBlade

2011-07-14, 09:21 PM

It was balanced, but still too powerful for a one man vehicle. The prob is, its hard to make a one man attack chopper thats worth using but keepin it balanced for one man. In theory it should be as good as a lightning, but if that were the case they wouldnt get used much.

Sadly they are catering to the casual guys with the reversal to 1 man. It should be back to 2man. Let the pilot have a weapon to fire but give him a gunner to handle the heavy firepower. Keep the armor light and speed good so its not a mini gunship but still works like a reaver but balanced better manpower wise.

Let the skeeter be the one man vehicle. Far less firepower and armor sacrificed for higher speed and maneuverability. Has a light machine gun but its only good versus infantry, near useless vs armor or other air. The reaver would be the faster heavy burst firepower hit and run platform. Anti armor guns and rockets, slower than a skeeter but more armor, and needs two people.

CutterJohn

2011-07-14, 09:27 PM

Reaver, as it was in PS, should have been 2 man. Well, not quite, it was more at man and a half power. Still, when looked at as a whole, it was rather OP.

I admit I will be disappointed, as I've many fond memories of helos in BF2. Granted those were OP as fuck, but a 2 man close air support vehicle would be much fun imo.

SOE! Keep it 2 man! Have certs for mossie that make it a balanced 1 man attack aircraft.

Was_Ash_Emerald

2011-07-14, 09:39 PM

The screenshot we got here on PSU appears to have 2 seats, but I asked during the Q&A and it was stated there was one.. so there is some confusion.

Ah well, I never played well with others anyway.

http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character.jsp?worldId=15&charId=273559

Hezzy

2011-07-14, 09:42 PM

I think that the mossie should be the one seater aircraft - using two seats for reaver seems like a better idea.

SKYeXile

2011-07-14, 09:43 PM

2 pilot reaver:
pilot controls:
2x straightfiring 20mms - shared 200 round clip.
2x Air - ground anti armour rocket - shared 16 round clip.

Gunner controls:
2x Air - Air missiles 2 round shared clip
1x rotarry Auroa cannon, 12 round clip capable of single shot or 6 round salvo fire.

Sounds about the right balance.

Tool

2011-07-14, 10:06 PM

I wonder what role the developers are going to have the reaver perform. Something more akin to gunships like the Apache and give it VTOL capabilities? Or more of a jet fighter, high speed A2A and A2G capabilities?

In PS1 it could be both because of the way aircraft handled, new flight model may lead to an entirely different Reaver. :shrug:

Baneblade

2011-07-14, 10:07 PM

The Reaver always should have been a 2 seat PS rendition of the Cobra and Apache.

SKYeXile

2011-07-14, 10:13 PM

The Reaver always should have been a 2 seat PS rendition of the Cobra and Apache.

basicly, yea it should be an anti armour and anti infantry gunship.

Tool

2011-07-14, 10:19 PM

basicly, yea it should be an anti armour and anti infantry gunship.

Unless the Wasp makes a return, there would probably have to be another aircraft or variant to the Mossie to perform a strong A2A role to curb an aircraft which would be for AA and AI. In my eyes at least; it would be fairly boring with no strong A2A elements for those crack ace pilots to partake of.

SKYeXile

2011-07-14, 10:21 PM

Unless the Wasp makes a return, there would probably have to be another aircraft or variant to the Mossie to perform a strong A2A role to curb an aircraft which would be for AA and AI. In my eyes at least; it would be fairly boring with no strong A2A elements for those crack ace pilots to partake of.

Aerial aces dont use wasps.

Tool

2011-07-14, 10:23 PM

Aerial aces dont use wasps.

True, but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say :p

SKYeXile

2011-07-14, 10:35 PM

True, but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say :p

no, no i do not, i dont know why you would want to bring back something that takes no skill into a system that they claim now takes more skill.

The wasp makes large scale air engaugments a joke, i would seriously hope their would be no air-air lockons in PS2, (yes i do accuatlly get what you mean) im sure the skeeter would be moddable to suit more of an AA role with different guns. eg: the duel alt fire 20mm's, you cant really infantry farm with them.

BorisBlade

2011-07-14, 10:36 PM

The wasp should be a good AA platform, sadly its not as good as it should be in ps1. But it should suck at AV/AI making other aircraft its target and making it fodder for AA from armor or infantry and worthless versus ground vehicles. Much like the skyguard, great versus air, crap versus all else and can still be taken out by a reaver if it gets a jump on ya, but generally the wasp would win.

So if ya wanna take on other air, get your wasp as it would be great at AA but weak at all else. If you wanna take on armor but with limited AA and AI then get a bud and grab a reaver. If you wanna scout or take out infantry at the cost of being fodder to AA (unless you just run away) and unable to take on armor, grab a skeeter. This would add variety and choice. It lets em excell in certain areas but in exchange for being weak or even totally worthless in others. Adds to the rock/paper/scissors thing too.

Baneblade

2011-07-14, 10:40 PM

Aerial aces dont use wasps.

They don't use Mossies either. ;)

Tool

2011-07-14, 10:51 PM

no, no i do not, i dont know why you would want to bring back something that takes no skill into a system that they claim now takes more skill.

The wasp makes large scale air engaugments a joke, i would seriously hope their would be no air-air lockons in PS2, (yes i do accuatlly get what you mean) im sure the skeeter would be moddable to suit more of an AA role with different guns. eg: the duel alt fire 20mm's, you cant really infantry farm with them.

It was merely an example of an A2A platform, I never flew a Wasp more than a day just to get used to it's capabilites in fights, afterburner times, and powersliding.

I understand your gripe about lock-on for aircraft but in a futuristic sci-fi game it would be slightly odd with advanced weaponry on everything but aircraft. I picture WWII aerial battles, pilots dogfighting with just their mounted guns and no missles. While the infantry and armor on the ground using Javelin missle systems, depleted uranium shells, airbursting proximity grenades, etc. Just seems a little odd is all.

SKYeXile

2011-07-14, 11:00 PM

It was merely an example of an A2A platform, I never flew a Wasp more than a day just to get used to it's capabilites in fights, afterburner times, and powersliding.

I understand your gripe about lock-on for aircraft but in a futuristic sci-fi game it would be slightly odd with advanced weaponry on everything but aircraft. I picture WWII aerial battles, pilots dogfighting with just their mounted guns and no missles. While the infantry and armor on the ground using Javelin missle systems, depleted uranium shells, airbursting proximity grenades, etc. Just seems a little odd is all.

They're designing a game, made to be played and enjoyed, it does not have to make sense, leave the lockon weapons to the people on the ground in MAXs without the skill to fly. We however prefere direct fire weapons that require aim to use.

Tool

2011-07-14, 11:11 PM

They're designing a game, made to be played and enjoyed, it does not have to make sense, leave the lockon weapons to the people on the ground in MAXs without the skill to fly. We however prefere direct fire weapons that require aim to use.

Well your obviously biased when you say things like "maxs without the skill to fly." Your sense of enjoyment isn't their design focal point and thankfully your not helping design it with such obvious bias. One sided gameplay doesn't lead to many happy gamers.

SKYeXile

2011-07-14, 11:16 PM

Tool

2011-07-14, 11:28 PM

Im not even going to bother sifting through the threads to link you the negative wasp threads one by one.

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps/search/search.m?clean=1&query=wasp&keywordType=title&searchTerms=any&author=&userType=&exactMatch=true&forumId=&sortBy=relevance&sortDir=DESC&categoryId=&postTime=

the sheer volume of them says enough.

I thought we were talking about Planetside 2? I guess you win again with that lovely lack of context and perspective. It gets a little silly when people continually bring in PS1 issues as if their relevance still or will have bearing on a relatively unknown PS2.

SKYeXile

2011-07-14, 11:57 PM

Peacemaker

2011-07-15, 12:12 AM

New flight engine should separate the kiddies from the real pilots. Especially in A2A. Spin and shoot on this ya lag whores.

Tool

2011-07-15, 12:26 AM

We are talking about PS2...? you said "your sense of enjoyment isn't their design focal point" so i linked you 77 pages of posts from people who agree with me about skill based flying in planetside...? Which im sure their veiws will carryon over into PS2.

But anyway, im not going to argue with somebody who talks about lack of persepective and isnot a pilot in a thread about flying.

Yeah, I was the only one in KOTOR who didn't fly with the rest of the outfit, always ran on foot to bases. You seem to imply that flying in PS1 required a lot skill in the first place. I learned a lot from players like Term and could powerslide with the likes of Rift. I simply didn't enjoy dogfighting as much as the grunt game.

With your quote of my post, you obviously prefer or liked the dogfighting in PS1. With the introduction of the wasp, many players cried fowl since it challenged or disrupted a preferred playstyle. You know what we did? We said sure, they kinda suck; but rarely, if ever used them and adapted to their use in the air.

With all that moaning about the wasp, "real" pilots wasted little time understanding them and their weaknesses. How trivial those 77 pages became when players realized how to actually combat wasp pilots without their accustomed "skills" which usually relagated to turreting or cherry picking fights.

Don't try to pull that childish "your not a pilot, your opinion doesn't count" crap with me.

Ranik Ortega

2011-07-15, 12:57 AM

I have to side with the realistic missile lock on. If they are trying to go for "Real" flight mechanics then those who are good will still be good.

Logically if the flight mechanics are heavily revamped then the window of opportunity to shoot A2G is shortened by a good bit. If the window to fire on ground targets is shortened then it is very likely aircraft will be more killy per second. If that is true then AA and A2A may need to be stepped up accordingly. Just going on logic with this one.

SKYeXile

2011-07-15, 01:07 AM

Yeah, I was the only one in KOTOR who didn't fly with the rest of the outfit, always ran on foot to bases. You seem to imply that flying in PS1 required a lot skill in the first place. I learned a lot from players like Term and could powerslide with the likes of Rift. I simply didn't enjoy dogfighting as much as the grunt game.

With your quote of my post, you obviously prefer or liked the dogfighting in PS1. With the introduction of the wasp, many players cried fowl since it challenged or disrupted a preferred playstyle. You know what we did? We said sure, they kinda suck; but rarely, if ever used them and adapted to their use in the air.

With all that moaning about the wasp, "real" pilots wasted little time understanding them and their weaknesses. How trivial those 77 pages became when players realized how to actually combat wasp pilots without their accustomed "skills" which usually relagated to turreting or cherry picking fights.

Don't try to pull that childish "your not a pilot, your opinion doesn't count" crap with me.

oh KOTOR LOL, I'm alittle hazey on my history here, but after failing to adapt on the fly in outfit wars to another outfit going defensive on you, didn't you guys cry on the forums because you lost or drew or something and had the whole tourniment canceled? Loving the irony.

Volw

2011-07-15, 01:37 AM

The screenshot we got here on PSU appears to have 2 seats, but I asked during the Q&A and it was stated there was one.. so there is some confusion.

It could potentially be both, depending on a variant.

and/or they've scrapped the idea and instead Liberator will be able to deliver some heavy air to ground punishment other than bombs.

Traak

2011-07-15, 01:39 AM

You know what else reduces "Reaver whoring"? Actually balancing the damn thing.

This.

CutterJohn

2011-07-15, 01:46 AM

no, no i do not, i dont know why you would want to bring back something that takes no skill into a system that they claim now takes more skill.

Missiles in PS1 could not be dodged. Missiles in PS2, with flight fizziks of their own... who can say?

Flight physics and flares/decoys would make missile use far more interesting than it is in PS1.

That said, I do agree that lock on stuff is in general less enjoyable. Sometimes I really don't care that its sci fi.. As a self confessed AA whore, I'd greatly prefer flak or a ridiculous amount of bullets over missiles.

Tool

2011-07-15, 01:55 AM

oh KOTOR LOL, I'm alittle hazey on my history here, but after failing to adapt on the fly in outfit wars to another outfit going defensive on you, didn't you guys cry on the forums because you lost or drew or something and had the whole tourniment canceled? Loving the irony.

Yeah...perhaps you should enroll yourself for a history lesson as you display textbook ignorance. The question mark there is just icing on the cake. You've dragged me into derailing this thread long enough. and continually displayed your minor capacity to discuss without going off on tangents.

Try to discuss things and consistantly see this from posters who strongly disagree with elements that are hardly explained yet, attacking any form of reasoning given as logic for the change made. We get it, you liked things a certain way. Its time to grow up and see you can't get eveything you want in PS2.

Could you now start your discussions with "I don't like X because..." Satan forbid we try keep things civil and reasoned even on a gaming forum.

SKYeXile

2011-07-15, 03:16 AM

Missiles in PS1 could not be dodged. Missiles in PS2, with flight fizziks of their own... who can say?

Flight physics and flares/decoys would make missile use far more interesting than it is in PS1.

That said, I do agree that lock on stuff is in general less enjoyable. Sometimes I really don't care that its sci fi.. As a self confessed AA whore, I'd greatly prefer flak or a ridiculous amount of bullets over missiles.

Sorry should have put /sarscam at the end of that one.

With a more agile flight model and like you say missiles with physics, it could work. then there might be some sort of chance like you say to evade missiles. But like I say, i do hope they stick to their promise and have aircraft and specificity air to air encounters require more skill. Hopefully we will see the end of the boring turret fest PS1 is or has become?... I seemed to remember it as something grander in the past.

Redshift

2011-07-15, 07:12 AM

I'd give the driver 2x20 mm recoiless like it already had, and control of a set of chaff countermeasures (able to loose maybe half of the AA fired from a MAX in one go, assuming it's not stationary)

I'd give the gunner the AV rocket pods as a turret(and make them take over a clip to kill an rexo)
I'd also give the gunner a 20 mm recoiless like the rear gunner of the lib (mounted underneath to give full motion from rear to front), for getting skeeters off of you and for AI if needed

Will survive ok against AA then but get taken apart by skeeters

CutterJohn

2011-07-15, 09:05 AM

I don't see why the gunner would have to be so gimped vs infantry. Seems a bit out of spite, that.

Plus infantry will have AA options now anyway. They won't be so defenseless vs air.

Robert089

2011-07-15, 09:16 AM

That's a shame, I was looking forward to a 2 man gunship sort of vehicle.

Redshift

2011-07-15, 09:45 AM

I don't see why the gunner would have to be so gimped vs infantry. Seems a bit out of spite, that.

Plus infantry will have AA options now anyway. They won't be so defenseless vs air.

20 mm recoiless has a faster ttk than rockets, plus you actually have to aim it, plus it's not supposed to be an AV weapon like the rockets.....

kaffis

2011-07-15, 10:02 AM

You know what else reduces "Reaver whoring"? Actually balancing the damn thing.
And now, flight physics should greatly facilitate doing so.

kaffis

2011-07-15, 10:06 AM

That's a shame, I was looking forward to a 2 man gunship sort of vehicle.
Perhaps there'll be a Liberator variant/modifications that could serve?

p0intman

2011-07-15, 11:56 AM

You know what would be awesome to balance it all? Having to maintain an airspeed to keep in the air, and shoot.

oh.. wait a sec...

Skorne

2011-07-15, 12:43 PM

Slight off topic but did anyone else notice in the video the squadron of aircraft has what looks like 2 empty weapon mounts under each wing? I wonder if you will get to choose a loadout for say air to air or air to ground, that would be sweet.

Hamma

2011-07-15, 12:48 PM

Perhaps there'll be a Liberator variant/modifications that could serve?

There will be a gunship varient of the Liberator.

/back on topic.. :p

Kurtz

2011-07-15, 01:21 PM

Who wants to sit behind me?

I promise not to play Highway to the Dangerzone.

Seriously, any conjectures yet on how it might work?

Ha! looks like the Devs specifically targeted you for a nerf. Smed must have been in one of those Sunderers you nuked. Good to see you back.

Was_Ash_Emerald

2011-07-15, 03:11 PM

Ha! looks like the Devs specifically targeted you for a nerf. Smed must have been in one of those Sunderers you nuked. Good to see you back.

ya, I remember you.

Hopefully the new client works right with speed step processors now so you don't fire at 10x normal rate. :mad: