High Altitude Stalling

[Miir]

I know the dev team has mentioned that the flight model on air vehicles will be more realistic in Planetside 2. I'm really excited to see just how real it feels.

That said... I'm wondering how they are going to handle the ceiling limit this time around.

I thought it might be cool if rather than hitting an invisible barrier at a set altitude (like in the current Planetside) your air craft would instead stall out and fall back toward Auraxis. During the stall phase you would just be in a free fall waiting on an engine restart with limited controls.

If each vehicle had a slightly different stall height this would allow some interesting evasion/combat tactics.

[kaffis]

I could buy into this. OR, a system where when you go above "optimal atmospheric threshold" or whatever, the engine performance rapidly degrades. This way, you can push higher for a while, but your agility and speed would be lessened, allowing those below you to outmaneuver you.

Such a system would create a "soft cap" by offering your diminishing performance returns. Eventually, you'd hit the hard cap by virtue of just not being able to generate enough upward thrust to go higher, and trying would, yes, stall you out.

[Hamma]

I agree with all of this very good ideas. A solid cap that you just slam into sucks - losing power or something as you ascend would be awesome. It also adds another element of strategy to flying.

[Sentrosi]

Low power Galaxy drops. Oh man. I can see it now. Hit maximum sustained altitude, then adjust your glide slope to efficiently deliver your payload on target and quickly hightail it out of there.

Who's with me?

[Lonehunter]

I thought it might be cool if rather than hitting an invisible barrier at a set altitude (like in the current Planetside) your air craft would instead stall out and fall back toward Auraxis.

:nod:

[Quovatis]

Would be cool if different aircraft had different flight ceilings. I bet they're going to do something like this, and be able to upgrade your aircraft with more power to reach higher altitudes.

[Desoxy]

Would be cool if different aircraft had different flight ceilings. I bet they're going to do something like this, and be able to upgrade your aircraft with more power to reach higher altitudes.

I agree, they could do some real nifty things with the new PhysX system, as long as we do NOT end up with this: ;)

DCS: Black Shark -Clean Start up Procedure

[Hamma]

:lol:

You'd be dead in a quarter of a second if you were mulling around in your cockpit like that.

[Baneblade]

At least it would kill off the mossie farmers.

[Quovatis]

It would be cool to have aircraft require a little more skill (i.e. move toward more of a simulator than FPS). But that's a difficult thing to balance fun and simulation (see World War II Online as an example).

A somewhat unrelated feature I've always wanted in PS is the ability to turn off your engine while in the vehicle. That way you can be stealthy to ambush prey and be able to hear better (in a tank or ATV).

[Bing]

I'm all for anything that gets rid of arbitrary limits while simultaneously creating new strategies and flavor.

+1 from me.

[Valdae]

Its a nice idea, I can already imagine a pilot choosing to push his aircraft to the limit, and seeing the warning lights coming up!

You'd have to make all the aircraft altitude peaks the same, with maybe an extra 200 feet achievable for a few seconds before stalling. The idea of some aircraft being able to go higher than others would present too many tactical imbalances if they could remain at that height indefinitely.

[LordReaver]

I agree, they could do some real nifty things with the new PhysX system, as long as we do NOT end up with this: ;)

DCS: Black Shark -Clean Start up Procedure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sZ58EE-5Vw)

What are you talking about? I would fucking love that!

[CutterJohn]

I've no issues with aircraft flying really high, and well beyond the range of AA. Air superiority fighters would have to keep the skies clear up there.

The only real limitation should be that air can't, or can't reliably, attack from up there. Like dropping bombs and soldiers from a galaxy(no oxygen!). To do those things you should be within the range of ground based AA.

[Baneblade]

Like dropping bombs and soldiers from a galaxy(no oxygen!).

HALO dropping from a Galaxy isn't unheard of... especially since most players are in armor that would obviously have its own air system.

[CutterJohn]

Yes, i'm aware that realistically they would be able to, but I just don't think it would be a good idea to let them drop from so high AA on the ground can't respond.

[headcrab13]

I know the dev team has mentioned that the flight model on air vehicles will be more realistic in Planetside 2. I'm really excited to see just how real it feels.

Great idea about the varying stall heights -- I think that would add a lot to the strategy of certain attacks.

I can't wait to see a gameplay video of 1st or 3rd person flight that shows off the flight model and view distance. View distance was already incredible in PS, but I have a feeling we're in for a treat this time.

-HC13

[Traak]

At a certain altitude, you get a warning. At a higher altitude, you simply blow to bits.

Just like moving outside the boundaries of the continent. Simple.

[Zulthus]

Along with this, I'd welcome a detailed cockpit view instead of an altitude meter and crosshair.

[Logit]

I've no issues with aircraft flying really high, and well beyond the range of AA. Air superiority fighters would have to keep the skies clear up there.

The only real limitation should be that air can't, or can't reliably, attack from up there. Like dropping bombs and soldiers from a galaxy(no oxygen!). To do those things you should be within the range of ground based AA.

I'd say if you can't see a bomb coming from that far away, you deserve to be pwnt by it.

I'd love to be able to hot drop at extreme heights, sounds super fun to me.

[Baneblade]

Yes, i'm aware that realistically they would be able to, but I just don't think it would be a good idea to let them drop from so high AA on the ground can't respond.

Properly flown Galaxies should be able to skirt AA, AA shouldn't be supreme. If you want stuff flying around out of AA range shot down... get pilots on your side.

[Infektion]

I agree, they could do some real nifty things with the new PhysX system, as long as we do NOT end up with this: ;)

DCS: Black Shark -Clean Start up Procedure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sZ58EE-5Vw)

If they maybe cut the complexity 3/4's, I honestly wouldnt mind having this. But if you think about it, this is a "cold start", obviously they could implement a "warm" start once it's been already flown and landed, so that next lift would just be you getting in and turning on the HUD. But that's my idea.

[Traak]

Regarding your signature:
I remember when my PC was aweseome...

PC's, like LTR's or anything, are completely replaceable.

[Infektion]

Regarding your signature:
I remember when my PC was aweseome...

PC's, like LTR's or anything, are completely replaceable.

you're replaceable too, did you know? lol

[Raymac]

Yeah, this stalling idea is only a million times cooler than the invisible ceiling thats in PS1 now. I freakin love it! Falling back to earth hoping your engines will kick back on again and you can pull out of the dive in time. Classic action movie moment. (I live for those moments in Planetside) Maybe it could even be part of the pilots' skill tree, "improved chances of stall recovery" or something like that.

[Lartnev]

Such a system would create a "soft cap" by offering your diminishing performance returns. Eventually, you'd hit the hard cap by virtue of just not being able to generate enough upward thrust to go higher, and trying would, yes, stall you out.

I prefer this idea to an instant stall since it's realistic. <science>The higher you are the lower the atmospheric pressure, and the less lift you can produce, so you fall back towards the planet until you regain enough lift</science>. Therefore I would propose a maximum cruising altitude (you start floating back down) and a maximum altitude (hard stall). That allows the warning at the ceiling cap in a more intuitive and recognisable way.

Different maximum altitudes is a cool idea too: faster aircraft should be able to fly higher. If such a thing as a SkyGuard exists it should be able to hit heavy aircraft (AA MAXs can climb towers to do the same). Using pilots for air supremacy will still be necessary because enemy aircraft will be able to attack the heavier planes from above.

[Infektion]

I prefer this idea to an instant stall since it's realistic. <science>The higher you are the lower the atmospheric pressure, and the less lift you can produce, so you fall back towards the planet until you regain enough lift</science>. Therefore I would propose a maximum cruising altitude (you start floating back down) and a maximum altitude (hard stall). That allows the warning at the ceiling cap in a more intuitive and recognisable way.

Different maximum altitudes is a cool idea too: faster aircraft should be able to fly higher. If such a thing as a SkyGuard exists it should be able to hit heavy aircraft (AA MAXs can climb towers to do the same). Using pilots for air supremacy will still be necessary because enemy aircraft will be able to attack the heavier planes from above.

No, what I think they should do, is that the closer to the stall point you get, the more your alarms go off(which would mean the air density has gone below recommended and stall is imminent), Which is another thing they should add. When you're going down due to heavy damage, have the alarms go off! That'd be awesome. But yea, once you go get up to the stall point, have the craft react violently due to turbulence and then once you get passed the soft point of stall, have the power cut to 20% and drop the nose till it's at 90% of stall point.


is it wrong for me to get an erection during post? :P

[Malorn]

As long as it gave you a little warning prior to the stall... Hate to see bombers or gal pilots accidentally stall while trying to maximize altitude.

[Raymac]

As long as it gave you a little warning prior to the stall... Hate to see bombers or gal pilots accidentally stall while trying to maximize altitude.

Definitely. They already give us a warning that we are approaching the flight ceiling, so I'd assume they're doing the same for PS2 in some form.

[Lartnev]

No, what I think they should do, is that the closer to the stall point you get, the more your alarms go off(which would mean the air density has gone below recommended and stall is imminent), Which is another thing they should add. When you're going down due to heavy damage, have the alarms go off! That'd be awesome.

Agreed, a "Stall warning!" voice prompt and alarm would be good near the hard cap so new players know why their aircraft just became a flying rock but not all the time. And yes to some sort of shrill alarm telling you to bail out when you're heavily damaged (because health and safety is a concern on Auraxis ;))*.

As long as it gave you a little warning prior to the stall... Hate to see bombers or gal pilots accidentally stall while trying to maximize altitude.

The beauty of a soft and hard cap is you can't get to the hard cap by just flying normally, you can go above the soft cap a bit but will then find it hard to climb any further. The only way to hit the hard ceiling (and stall the aircraft) is by gunning it vertically with full throttle and afterburners. Then you're just asking for it :p

*Assuming you get xp for destroying the aircraft and/or a kill from the resulting explosion.

[Bing]

Why isn't this in the Planetside 2 Idea Vault?

[knaggsy]

I personally believe the best option for flight controls for the mozzy/reever are the Battlefield 2142 gunship controls. Fairly easy to fly but difficult to master.

Can roll and loop and all is fun.

Galaxies and larger ships should be like battlefield 1942 aircraft... i.e. most of your team will crash them into trees because they have no clue how to fly them but when you master them they are much fun to fly.

[kaffis]

On the topic of verbal "Stall Imminent!" warnings, your crew/passengers should definitely hear them, too. Let the bastards know they hopped into the crazy pilot's Galaxy...

[Ninebreaker]

How about just implementing what real aircraft do, an aircraft usually only stalls when the pilot wants it to. It happens when there is not enough air flowing over the wing.

So if the pilot does nothing the performance degrades, stall warning starts getting louder until the aircraft just cant maintain its current attitude, then it will just drop its nose towards the ground.

What would be interesting is spinning, when the aircraft stalls and the pilot just kicks in the rudder it will start spinning towards the ground. Would be awesome to see a spinning galaxy.

[wildcat140679]

I've stopped counting how often I've seen this idea pop up in the PS forums along with different ceiling levels for different air crafts to stimulate aerial combat. I truly hope the dev's take this path and add this concept in to PS2.

[Lartnev]

On the topic of verbal "Stall Imminent!" warnings, your crew/passengers should definitely hear them, too. Let the bastards know they hopped into the crazy pilot's Galaxy...

:lol: Definitely, especially if it sounds like it's coming from the cockpit.

[Baneblade]

And to complete the effect, make the passengers sit inside the windowless hold, like a C-130.

[BUGGER]

On topic of Stall warnings. Yes have it flash Stall once you hit that wall for you and passengers, but there shouldn't be a "btw500footztillstalz" warning. If your certed, you should already know what your vehicle can handle.

Which brings me to my next point I noticed a long time ago that the Galaxy actually has wheels instead of skids, hopefully that is an indication of something rather than cosmetic. It would be cool to have straight fliers and some ups and downsies fliers like we currently have. Hard to freefall when every vehicle can hover....

Different ceilings for different vehicles would be cool.

Cockpit view.

Interchangable weapon loadouts (Reaver surface to ground, AA missles, etc).

I always wanted to see a balanced Empire specific flier too, curious what those would look like for each faction.

[FastAndFree]

Not to be a party pooper, but I don't think that an aircraft that flies on vectored thrusters can "stall" since they don't require any forward speed to fly

Helicopters for example can't stall, their individual blades can but that's a different problem related to high velocity, not low

Though we alredy have the perfect handwave - the power links!
The further you go, the less power your engines have, making you more and more sluggish as you keep ascending, and at one point you will simply not have enough power to climb anymore (though that won't cause any spectacular dives, unfortunately)

A fix to that could be that your engines will lose power entirely when you are playing around the edge for too long, playing out the falling-out-of-the-sky-scenario that people have envisioned above

[kaffis]

Which brings me to my next point I noticed a long time ago that the Galaxy actually has wheels instead of skids, hopefully that is an indication of something rather than cosmetic. It would be cool to have straight fliers and some ups and downsies fliers like we currently have. Hard to freefall when every vehicle can hover....
Actually, I'm crossing my fingers that advanced flight mechanics means we have NO hovering vehicles, or, if we do, it's more helicopter-like in its performance. (Slower, lower operating ceiling)

Make those reavers that want to play tank-buster do it on the fly, instead of playing hover-unload-run away. Strafing runs!

[Lartnev]

Not to be a party pooper, but I don't think that an aircraft that flies on vectored thrusters can "stall" since they don't require any forward speed to fly

Helicopters for example can't stall, their individual blades can but that's a different problem related to high velocity, not low

However the higher you go, the less dense the air gets. That means less airflow over rotors and/or reduced engine intake. Physics is still with us!

[FastAndFree]

Yeah but I presume they just sorta slowly lose lifting power, kinda like what I suggested with the power link, not dramatically tip over and start falling :)

[Baneblade]

Actually, I'm crossing my fingers that advanced flight mechanics means we have NO hovering vehicles, or, if we do, it's more helicopter-like in its performance. (Slower, lower operating ceiling)

Make those reavers that want to play tank-buster do it on the fly, instead of playing hover-unload-run away. Strafing runs!

Get rid of the afterburners and the problem would solve itself.

[Frostiken]

I agree, they could do some real nifty things with the new PhysX system, as long as we do NOT end up with this: ;)
[DCS: Black Shark]

God forbid it takes some skill to fly around in circles in a Reaver killing everything you come across.

[wildcat140679]

Get rid of the afterburners and the problem would solve itself.

After burners where good in PlanetSide. But the netcode didn't handle high velocity or the sudden increase of speed very well. Air to air combat wasn't that much effected by it when chasing down an enemy, but those on the ground not moving or moving much slower, trying to shoot at a air craft that kicks in his after burners was a real pain to hit.

[FastAndFree]

After burners where good in PlanetSide. But the netcode didn't handle high velocity or the sudden increase of speed very well. Air to air combat wasn't that much effected by it when chasing down an enemy, but those on the ground not moving or moving much slower, trying to shoot at a air craft that kicks in his after burners was a real pain to hit.

I think he meant that pilots wouldn't be able to use their afterburners to quickly accelerate from hovering in place, leading to hoverspamming becoming much more dangerous

[Baneblade]

I think he meant that pilots wouldn't be able to use their afterburners to quickly accelerate from hovering in place, leading to hoverspamming becoming much more dangerous

Bingo.