Shotguns for Cloakers, I say no, you?

[VanuVirus]

Okay, watching the faction weapons webcast, they said this thread would be here, so I'm ensuring they know the future, because I want them to look into their crystal ball there at SOE and tell me that shotguns on a cloaker is smart.

I am a former cloaker, and at this point, I'd love it, but hate it. There's plenty of pros and cons...

Pros:
One-shot kills of other cloakers.
Serious damage to infantry in close quarters.

Cons:
Loud noise, draws lots of attention.
Slow reload and almost entire loss of cloak.

These are just what I thought up right now... I'm sure there's more. Let's elaborate, and each weigh in on how well this would work.

[VioletZero]

There are also suppressed shotguns.

[SUBARU]

What are they thinking:huh:

[DayOne]

OH NOES!

[NewSith]

I vote "uhm, no" it'll be overpowered on snowy conts.

[Hmr85]

I vote we wait and see how it turns out. They said they where playing with it still. As in they might or might not give them shotguns.


With that said,If they do it right I have no problems with it.

[SniperSteve]

IDK about you all, but I might just have to try cloaking out so I can use my silenced shotgun with it's 8X zoom scope.

[SUBARU]

Its like putting a 12 mm gun on the Phantasm.That didnt work out to well

[Bitmap]

Op weapon for op class.... Let me think..... Um, No.

[NewSith]

Op weapon for op class.... Let me think..... Um, No.

OP class? Barely.

[Nephilimuk]

I thought the cloaker was just pleased to see me :doh:

[Myomoto]

Sounds sweet. I don't see any reason to not let a cloaker carry a shotgun. If they're already giving them sniper rifles, the shotgun would seem like a logical next step.

[DaddyTickles]

Lets just see how it pans out.

[VanuVirus]

I vote we wait and see how it turns out. They said they where playing with it still. As in they might or might not give them shotguns.


With that said,If they do it right I have no problems with it.

Let's not all stick our thumbs in our mouths and wait... You know, collaborative thought, it's a wonderful thing when it's used properly. I also noticed that my Pros and Cons do kind of outweigh each other, but honestly, this might be taking away some of the difficulty and skill it takes to be a moderately good ninja.

[EVILPIG]

I don't like your poll options. You need, "Let's wait and try it first".

[Geist]

I think it's awesome. They'll have to play around with it.... a lot... but still.

[NEWSKIS]

It's pointless to straight up say yes or no. Like every other thing they've talked about we cant decide whether it's good or bad until we try it in the game.

[Mirror]

Well it could be like Planetside 1 where a cloaker could use the scat pistol...I'll wait and see.

[NewSith]

I see one thing independent from the weapon-class concept - White background. Or BRIGHT background to be precise. Midday on Esamir will be shotty cloaker's paradise.

[Knightwyvern]

I see one thing independent from the weapon-class concept - White background. Or BRIGHT background to be precise. Midday on Esamir will be shotty cloaker's paradise.

True, but it will also be a reaver pilots paradise ;)

[VanuVirus]

If ever a mod were to check this thread, please reset poll and recreate with the option "Let's wait for beta..." on the poll. I still vote "Umm... No." either way. You would effectively have to make the Infiltrator class completely useless to justify a shotgun IMO.

[Knightwyvern]

If ever a mod were to check this thread, please reset poll and recreate with the option "Let's wait for beta..." on the poll. I still vote "Umm... No." either way. You would effectively have to make the Infiltrator class completely useless to justify a shotgun IMO.

It was pretty balanced in PS1, loved my scatter-pistol.

Remember, infils already don't really have armor/defense. If they miss with their shotgun, they can say good night.

[Bitmap]

True. I'll go along with the "wait n see" but I still think it will be overpowered.

[Hmr85]

Let's not all stick our thumbs in our mouths and wait... You know, collaborative thought, it's a wonderful thing when it's used properly. I also noticed that my Pros and Cons do kind of outweigh each other, but honestly, this might be taking away some of the difficulty and skill it takes to be a moderately good ninja.

They have stated, that things that might of been op in PS1 may not be the case in PS2. I still say lets wait and see. Also, they have said cloakers cannot fire their weapon while cloaked.

[Vancha]

Oh look, people reaching conclusions based on a mental context of PS1 again.

[MooK]

Oh look, people reaching conclusions based on a mental context of PS1 again.

PS1 (pre-cc) WAS INFALLIBLE YOU TAKE THAT BACK!

[Cosmical]

If theyre going by any other game, then if your close enough to get a one shot kill with a shotgun, youre probably close enough to use a veriaty of other instant death options. I.e. pistol to the face, knife to the neck.... sniper to the balls. To be honest shotgun seems the most boring option to me.

[Knightwyvern]

Oh look, people reaching conclusions based on a mental context of PS1 again.

It can be used viably in the sense of, "hey look, it's been balanced before, it could be again."

[DaddyTickles]

C'mon, don't be naive the whole thing about MMOs is that you OP some stuff then nerf it and OP other stuff. Rinse repeat. Its that churn that keeps people coming back and spending more money.

[VanuVirus]

It was pretty balanced in PS1, loved my scatter-pistol.

Remember, infils already don't really have armor/defense. If they miss with their shotgun, they can say good night.

I loved the scatter pistol too, don't get me wrong, but I found it wasn't always the best tool for the job and most of the time I kept a beamer packed on my hip. Scatter-pistol does you no favors once you've been spotted by med or rexo, you're gone. Shotguns I would think would end up just being more of the same thing. Good only vs other ninjas or light armor. There's the costs to think about, still a loud noise, but instead of being concussive and all-encompassing because of the short barrel, now it's focused and tight and somebody will be able to narrow down a more precise direction faster. The kickback on the scatter pistol was minor enough that it didn't throw you off, but it did make you visible enough for just long enough. Is shotgun going to be more of the same racket because of pump-action shotguns, or way less because of auto-shotguns? Where's the shotgun lie on the damage scale compared to the scatter-pistol?

[Knightwyvern]

I loved the scatter pistol too, don't get me wrong, but I found it wasn't always the best tool for the job and most of the time I kept a beamer packed on my hip. Scatter-pistol does you no favors once you've been spotted by med or rexo, you're gone. Shotguns I would think would end up just being more of the same thing. Good only vs other ninjas or light armor. There's the costs to think about, still a loud noise, but instead of being concussive and all-encompassing because of the short barrel, now it's focused and tight and somebody will be able to narrow down a more precise direction faster. The kickback on the scatter pistol was minor enough that it didn't throw you off, but it did make you visible enough for just long enough. Is shotgun going to be more of the same racket because of pump-action shotguns, or way less because of auto-shotguns? Where's the shotgun lie on the damage scale compared to the scatter-pistol?

Don't forget, suppressed shotguns. Sweeper is pump action. But also remember that the general lethality of weapons is higher in PS2 as far as we know. We also don't know if medics will be able to self-heal at any decent rate. I think a SG infil would be a good close range version of the "scout rifle" infil they were talking about in the podcast. I'm gussing this will be like a designated marksman rifle in modern military terms.

Also, I don't really WANT any specific weapon/class combo to "own" all others. The shotgun not being ideal for many situations is cool with me, as long as it is good at what it does do.

[VanuVirus]

Don't forget, suppressed shotguns. Sweeper is pump action. But also remember that the general lethality of weapons is higher in PS2 as far as we know. We also don't know if medics will be able to self-heal at any decent rate. I think a SG infil would be a good close range version of the "scout rifle" infil they were talking about in the podcast. I'm gussing this will be like a designated marksman rifle in modern military terms.

Also, I don't really WANT any specific weapon/class combo to "own" all others. The shotgun not being ideal for many situations is cool with me, as long as it is good at what it does do.

Amen.

They did say that there would be multiple models in each class so we can pick and choose, maybe an auto wouldn't be so bad later on once you've gained proficiency with the pump.

[That one noob]

Don't see too much of a problem with this as much as I have a problem with cloaked snipers. We gotta remember that the Infiltrator is extremely fragile, and only has the element of surprise as its advantage. Once a regular grunt sees it (via Darklight or some microwave vision or whatever) the infiltrator is pretty much dead. Adding a shotgun just gives it another incentive to get closer. Infiltrators should only be effective on a one-on-one scenario. Plus it shouldn't be a threat if you travel in a squad or with a MAX.

On a somewhat unrelated note, what kind of suppressor are we talking about on the shotgun?
Flash suppressor or muzzle brake? Please no sound suppressors. D:

[SniperSteve]

I see one thing independent from the weapon-class concept - White background. Or BRIGHT background to be precise. Midday on Esamir will be shotty cloaker's paradise.

Since they are developing the game now, they will be able to make the appropriate modifications to the visibility of the cloaker if/where they are needed.

[VanuVirus]

Since they are developing the game now, they will be able to make the appropriate modifications to the visibility of the cloaker if/where they are needed.

I was thinking about this too, a partial reveal of the suit from where the sudden motion (and therefore initially-uncorrectable error in the refraction methods of the suit) occurred would be a nice fix for this. That would mean as a cloaker moves along, it's running pattern is expected by the suit, so it's correcting fast enough and keeping them invisible up till a short distance. The instant they pull the trigger though, you know that there's going to be a kickback, but the suit does not, therefore an error in motion correction and a reveal of the suit as it tries to catch up.

Oooo... another upgrade path idea, upgrade-able class armor, like the infil suit can get better with upgrades, better motion correction, extra pistol slot, etc, that would be sweet.

[Grognard]

I don't like your poll options. You need, "Let's wait and try it first".

This is where I am on it... They do have sniper rifles, both seem just as odd to me... Lets just see how its implemented relative to everything else...

Lots of stuff I'll speculate on, but these two... I cant seem to get my head around either one yet...

[Warborn]

Sounds like a pretty terrible idea. All they could think of to make cloakers more useful was to just give them a bigger gun?

[Myomoto]

Sounds like a pretty terrible idea. All they could think of to make cloakers more useful was to just give them a bigger gun?

Would you rather they just give them a bigger knife? To me it generally just sounds like the general 'I'm a vulnerable but invisible character that can kill you easily in close quarters combat'-archetype.

[CutterJohn]

I am going to say it will be fine, on the assumption that, like the sniper rifle, having a shotgun makes the cloak less effective.

I think you should only be able to be completely invisible with a pistol.

[Sta]

In all games I've played I've said cloakers or stealth abilities are for carebears.. guess what I've voted :p

[Daimond]

it seems that you all missed what they acualy said. and thats they were looking into the idea of infiltrators that can use shotguns. Not that they are ingame now or will be its just a thought they put out there.
Like T-ray said basicaly it will depend on what end of the gun your on if you might like it. :)
Me I think its a neet idea, but could be dont vary wrong, in several ways. but bring up thoughts of the scat pistol though, and other such 1 shot kill burst mode types already inplay. they maybe thinking that route for it and just put it out there to stur up wild speculation.

as for things like sniper rifle me and others long ago talked about on forums that would be a great idea, and Im a sniper btw. they down side I put forth that most agreed if ever done, and should be for anything other then a pistol is that when not sheathed lets say, you ar uncloaked. on a knife and pistol weapons can be pulled to remain cloaked. the other down side would be your still a 1 shot kill from most weapons and specialy other snipers.

[HitbackTR]

Threads like this repeatedly make me wonder why SOE didn't keep the classes the same and introduce the ability to let us choose what specs we want our weapons while also keeping the certification system with some of the same and new certs.

[Graywolves]

I think it might be cool. With thermal vision and dark light I don't think it will be a problem.


Just seems gimicky.

[DaddyTickles]

I thhink the deal here is rock, paper, scissors. Ok, you got a cloak and a shotgun - cool. But what about the guy with darklight? Oh yeah, you can get an implant or something to break his DL when he looks your way, but say he's got infra-red instead of plain iron sights? He sees you, he shoots you.

Its all about rock, paper, scissors.

[HitbackTR]

darklight isn't much of a deterrent to a competent cloaker

[DaddyTickles]

darklight isn't much of a deterrent to a competent cloaker

It doesn't matter you can break the DL ability with an implant or somesuch. The point is infra red.

[Death2All]

Just based off the way it sounds, absolutely no.


Letting some cloaked unit carry a weapon that does insane damage. Yeah, there cloak will probably suffer as a result of using the shotgun. But I say no.

[Hamma]

It sounds interesting to me - I'd like to see how it works out.

They did say they were playing around with it though so it doesn't mean we will ever see it.

[Yutty]

as long as the cloaker isn't completely invis with a shotgun i think it'd be fun. Not too sure about a silenced shotgun though. Has anyone heard a silenced pistol in real life? Not even close to what video games make them seem like.

[NCLynx]

I vote we wait and see how it turns out.

This. No one in this thread can confirm that this combo will even be super OP. It's a cloaker, I'd be willing to bet they have very VERY limited ammo or something along those lines.

I'd also be willing to bet quite a few of the people in this thread have it in their minds that this will be like a PS1 Cloaker wielding a Jackhammer with tons of ammo. Lol.

[WaryWizard]

I see this as a cloaker with a shotgun sneaking up and shooting people as fast as they can. I don't think most classes could survive an attack from point blank behind.

I would rather they get an smg than a shotgun.

[Bags]

If a cloaker gets close enough to get you with a shotgun they deserve it, imo.

Unless cloaking is reeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaallly easy.

[mrkdilkington]

"WTF" is all I can say. It's obvious that the weapons guy from the podcast has absolutely no Planetside 1 experience and is trying to add MMORPG & Battlefield elements into the game. I'm trying to decide what pisses me off more, the priest medic getting a prayer of healing spell AoE healing or infiltrators with sniper rifles.

[Ragefighter]

you'll probably only get off one shot if you run up to a bunch of guy with a shotgun. I would think after firing a gun your invis would turn off for a short time?

Am I correct in the assumption that when you spawn you choose 1 main gun? (no "hammer space") Like you would pick sniper rifle, scout rifle, or shotgun?
makes sense to me, 1 long range, 1 medium, 1 short.
or does the class carry all these weapons at once? Tried to get all the info I could but sometimes the lingo is a little hard to grasp for a new person lol.

with the sniper rifle you should be relatively safe, the scout rifle you will need to be closer but it does more damage to compensate for the higher risk. and the shotgun should be high damage but also high risk. (maybe change the spread of the shotgun for this class? not sure if wide or narrow would be more balanced).

but I do see the shotgun as a suicide tactic. like the infiltrator just goes in and kills one important class than gets promptly owned after his cover is blown. Not a fan of suiciders but idk... a sniper should be able to kill more players from a distance if he can stay in cover, if his aim is true.

maybe when your base is being over run, spawn with the shotgun or something and hide behind the corners peeking out and blasting people.

I voted 'ok, cool'. but really want to see how it works in beta like probably everyone else...
But I also figured an infiltrator would use a knife in close combat, since, afaik, the knife is a side arm.

I will probably play as an engineer or medic any way, not a big fan of stealth play. more of a support class enthusiast in pretty much all games.
but I do like shotguns!

[Bags]

"WTF" is all I can say. It's obvious that the weapons guy from the podcast has absolutely no Planetside 1 experience and is trying to add MMORPG & Battlefield elements into the game. I'm trying to decide what pisses me of more, the priest medic getting a prayer of healing spell AoE healing or infiltrators with sniper rifles.

Not really sure what other game besides GA has cloaking snipers.

[Fenrys]

I voted the middle option.
Lets wait and see how it works.

IDK about you all, but I might just have to try cloaking out so I can use my silenced shotgun with it's 8X zoom scope.

I was eating a mouth full of pie when I read that and you almost made me spit it out :p

Still chuckling at the mental image . . .

[Hermes]

Find me a fence to sit on.

I need to see it in action I think.

[ringring]

I voted 'Umm No', however it does depend on how they implement it.

If a cloaker becomes fully visible once they equip the shotgun and it takes a little while to equip and there is a warning noise ..... free kill to someone who is aware.

[Redshift]

I'm seeing this could work. It would seem more balanced than the spiker, the amount of hate tells i used to get with that thing was fantastic

[Gandhi]

If a cloaker gets close enough to get you with a shotgun they deserve it, imo.

Unless cloaking is reeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaallly easy.
I dunno, if this were an arcade shooter with set maps and 12 guys on a team I'd agree with you. In the middle of a chaotic 300v300 battle I don't think it'll be too hard for fast, almost totally invisible guys to get close to people.

I really don't want this to turn into TF2, where I constantly have to look behind me as I'm doing anything. It's not really a skill, it's just something you have to do, all. the. time.

[RedKnights]

I don't know if anyone else remembers when in the PS1 beta for a time the cloakers had a rifle slot? Sniping and Shotty cloakers were literally nuts.

But lets see how they implement it, it sounds like the larger a gun you have the less time cloaking you're going to have, At the same time it also sounds like there's going to be quite a number of serious drawbacks. So lets see how/if it's implemented and go from there. If it's not fun during their internal testing we're never going to see it anyways.

[Redshift]

But lets see how they implement it, it sounds like the larger a gun you have the less time cloaking you're going to have, At the same time it also sounds like there's going to be quite a number of serious drawbacks. So lets see how/if it's implemented and go from there. If it's not fun during their internal testing we're never going to see it anyways.

Yea i was just thinking this too, the cloaking sniper wasn't invisable on the screen shot, same is probably true for shottycloakers, would be hard to close in if that's the case

[DaddyTickles]

Yea i was just thinking this too, the cloaking sniper wasn't invisable on the screen shot, same is probably true for shottycloakers, would be hard to close in if that's the case

Prolly only really useful when the target is otherwise occupied like a sniper with their head buried in their scope or somesuch.

[basti]

Gotta see it myself really. I love cloaking, and having a shotung at my disposal would be quite cool.
But it needs proper downsides, or it would be rather OP. Wait and see really.

[Magpie]

Wooohoo!!! I get my NC cloaker with a sweeper!!!! Here's my credit card

[RedKnights]

Yea i was just thinking this too, the cloaking sniper wasn't invisable on the screen shot, same is probably true for shottycloakers, would be hard to close in if that's the case

Yea, you would literally deserve to die at that point if that is the case. At that point he isn't leaning only on the stealth suit, he got the drop on you big time.

...The more I think about this idea the more I find it exciting and appealing if done correctly... I see what those devs did there. :rolleyes:

[MockZero2]

They said in the magazine article that the snipers could never fully cloak so it sounds about right. Now not being fully cloaked from a distance as a sniper isn't a huge deal, but with a shotgun I could see that as impossible. At least with any kind of group of enemies around. So it would still be the cloakers picking the straglers off in the outfeilds on the base which sounds pretty justified. Still difficult if you aren't completely cloaked even. I dig it.

[Hydra]

You know when TRay joked about a person making topic to complain about Shotgun cloakers I didn't actually think someone would actually go ahead and do it anyway.:rolleyes:

I'll reserve my judgement when I actually play beta.

[DaddyTickles]

You know when TRay joked about PSU making topic to complain about Shotgun cloakers I didn't actually think someone would actually go ahead and do it anyway.:rolleyes:

I'll reserve my judgement when I actually play beta.

You're doing it wrong;)

[Redshift]

You know when TRay joked about a person making topic to complain about Shotgun cloakers I didn't actually think someone would actually go ahead and do it anyway.:rolleyes:

I'll reserve my judgement when I actually play beta.

Really? i was expecting the post to appear with the exact title he suggested, infact i was expecting several all at once :P

[Squeegeez]

Has anyone played Dystopia? It had a cloaker with shotgun available. I remember it being REALLY f-ing fun. It wasn't too OP either, plenty of counters, be it thermal or just something that could take out light armor fast (rocket AoE). Oh the joys of legboosters and cloaked shotties... brings back some really great fond memories. This must make it in, I might actually have more fun as a cloaker this time around!

Edit: I found a video with some stealther shotgun action!
A Half Life 2 Mod: Dystopia - YouTube
You can start to see it at 47 seconds, and a little bit more throughout the video, along with the counter to the light stealth - thermal vision.

[VanuVirus]

You know when TRay joked about a person making topic to complain about Shotgun cloakers I didn't actually think someone would actually go ahead and do it anyway.:rolleyes:

I'll reserve my judgement when I actually play beta.

You sir, underestimate the determination of a fanboy... and being a cloaker in PS1, I'm looking forward to doing the same in PS2. This thread isn't to bitch so much as to help find a logistical balance that doesn't make the cloak-shotty OP, and not unnecessarily nerfed.

[Mastachief]

Not really sure on this one. Like all the weapons and balance i will wait to pass judgement until we are in beta.

[Bags]

You know when TRay joked about a person making topic to complain about Shotgun cloakers I didn't actually think someone would actually go ahead and do it anyway.:rolleyes:

I'll reserve my judgement when I actually play beta.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39153

[Hydra]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39153

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae110/mayuuu_/wink.gif

[Naeadil]

I say leave it for beta. If it's broken, remove it. Sounds like it could be lots of fun though. Doesn't Crysis 2 have something like this?

[FastAndFree]

Cloakers can instagib people from point blank with the Eraser and it's NC/TR equivalents right now. (Granted, it all but guarantees death if any other enemies are nearby) How could a shotgun be worse than that?

[Gandhi]

How could a shotgun be worse than that?
No charge up time, no gigantic spread and no crippling hit to stamina. If it only takes 2 shots at point blank to take most classes out it could be pretty overpowered, but I guess we'll see in the beta.

[Lord Cosine]

NC cloakers in PS1 technically had a shotgun.
The different classes in PS2 may not have access to the same weapons, so the cloaker shotgun could easily do a lot less damage than a Jackhammer or Sweeper.

Obviously if they can one shot it would be stupidly over-powered, however if they find the sweet spot of damage than we may see some old ps1 style cloaker combat.

I think this is a right side better than cloaker snipers so I am totally on board.

[Raymac]

I hate cloakers with a passion. Being a NC who likes to use the Phoenix, they were the bane of my existince on the ground. However, something like this can easily be balanced. I like the idea. We shouldn't automatically dismiss every single minor deviation from PS1.

[That one noob]

Not really sure what other game besides GA has cloaking snipers.

Crysis 2

[Aurmanite]

Battlefield 2142 has cloaking snipers. Recon class.