Quick question, how strict is the NDA during beta?

[SuperMorto]

Hi all,

Just a quick question.

How strict is the NDA in beta regarding PS2? What will it stop and what wont it stop?

Before you ask, no I'm not planning in breaking it or anything like that. But would just like a heads up on what to expect other people to do, regarding uploading info/videos to websites etc etc.

Cheers,

Morto.

[EVILPIG]

Hi all,

Just a quick question.

How strict is the NDA in beta regarding PS2? What will it stop and what wont it stop?

Before you ask, no I'm not planning in breaking it or anything like that. But would just like a heads up on what to expect other people to do, regarding uploading info/videos to websites etc etc.

Cheers,

Morto.

You need to read the NDA agreement if you get in. You are expected to follow it to the letter. If you violate it and get caught, do not complain.

*EDIT

To expand on that and I believe the concern is regarding your website project, if you are under NDA, you had better not allow any NDA content or discussions on your site. That will only be allowed on their official boards.

[Bags]

I imagine it will be very strict during closed beta, but we won't know untilt then.

[ThGlump]

First rule of Beta: Dont speak about Beta!

Some dont even allow you tell anyone youre in. Guess that one will be broken on this site.

[Raymac]

I imagine it will be pretty strict. For example, I'm in the Firefall beta and that is literally all I can say.

[ThGlump]

If you want to provide some info/upload screens and video, to your less fortunate outfit members, you better do it somewhere without public access (and hope nobody will spread from there)
It will be still violating NDA, but if it wont spread to public you can get away with it. Unless you totally trust your outfit members, dont do it or you will be in trouble.

[Quovatis]

Seeing as they are giving out beta keys in a magazine, I expect any NDA to be fairly lax, but we'll have to see.

[Duddy]

Well, even if something appears to be allowed by the NDA, it doesn't hurt to ask the folks in charge first anyway.

Just a consideration for later.

[Hamma]

We don't know for certain and honestly it's possible that recording footage pre-NDA and releasing it post NDA could be a breach.

[Eyeklops]

We don't know for certain and honestly it's possible that recording footage pre-NDA and releasing it post NDA could be a breach.

It would not be in a games best interest to have buggy beta footage bouncing around the interwebs post-launch.

[Vash02]

I doubt it even has a NDA. I mean they just released possibly tens of thousands of keys in PC-Gamer. if someone releases some footage they probably wont be caught.

[SuperMorto]

Cheers folks, but you all missed my point completely. As expected.

I stated I wont breach NDA, therefore I wont breach NDA!.. just jot that down so you don't get confused again.

My project had nothing to do with this post. Also as stated above and in the OP if I wont breach it then PTV will never see a word or stream or video about PS2 until SOE say so.

The reason I asked the question is so I can put a estimate of what will be released online without SOE's permission. Will people do it? Has there been a Firefall video posted on say YouTube without the owners permission, and if so do YT remove the videos?

This post is a question about who will breach NDA, not me as I will not nore will I be a part of anything that will. Just trying to get some scope.

Thnx.

[Coreldan]

It will have an NDA, probably just as strict as it would be without PCGamer too, they probably just wont expect it to hold :D

But most likely for "legal purposes" they will have the NDA in place anyways.

It's very easy to get stuff removed from YouTube even if you arnt the gaming company in question. Like in APB for example, people have uploaded video proof of obvious cheaters so they can share it with customer support/devs, but the cheaters themselves make a copyright infringement report claiming to be K2/G1 to get the video taken down and succeed in it lol.

[SuperMorto]

I doubt it even has a NDA. I mean they just released possibly tens of thousands of keys in PC-Gamer. if someone releases some footage they probably wont be caught.

this came in while I was posting my other reply.

So you think a lot of folks will just do it anyway?

[PoisonTaco]

Morto, since you plan on doing streamed events in PS2, why not check in with the devs first if there's an NDA? Maybe there could be a way to work around it.

[Infektion]

Seeing as they are giving out beta keys in a magazine, I expect any NDA to be fairly lax, but we'll have to see.

That's a really good marketing strategy, doing this one move is more than they EVER did for PS1, that's for sure. lol

[texico]

The NDA will be likely be laid back seeing as they released keys to any stranger who buys PC gamer. However, that doesn't mean they'll let people get away with it if they find out.

Probably, you'll see loads of information released on PS2's Beta. If there's anything piracy has thought us it's that you won't be able to control people who have access to the internet. somebody will post footage online. I don't know if YT would remove it - maybe, but then again YT isn't the only video hosting site.

So I guess there's your answer. Especially given the release of thousands of keys, the devs are probably expecting a lot of leakage that they won't/can't do anything about.

[SuperMorto]

It will have an NDA, probably just as strict as it would be without PCGamer too, they probably just wont expect it to hold :D

But most likely for "legal purposes" they will have the NDA in place anyways.

It's very easy to get stuff removed from YouTube even if you arnt the gaming company in question. Like in APB for example, people have uploaded video proof of obvious cheaters so they can share it with customer support/devs, but the cheaters themselves make a copyright infringement report claiming to be K2/G1 to get the video taken down and succeed in it lol.

cheers Core. Now this puts me in a rather silly predicament.

A. Do we abide by the rules and miss out on fresh new viewers on the streams and Youtube. While we wait for the NDA to finish or SOE to update it. PTV is reliant on being up to date with video and streams. If others are doing it we will loose valuable viewers. And that leaves us with option B.

B. Abide by all the rules until we see 1 video or stream, then break the rules of the NDA to gain the fresh new fan base that PS2 will bring, remember we are only here to promote PS2 and the community? And yet I still don't like this idea.

We all know that timing can be a very important part of the success of anything. Just look at PSU, the PS2 news is on the front page normally within a few hours. Now if another site had the news quicker, then folks (and they would) would visit the other site, just to see the news a few hours earlier. And this is one of the points I'm worried about. I'm not sure I like the idea of folks breaking the NDA and making of with the fresh new video/streams that I'm trying so hard to make a bigger success.

And please don't mistake this for me not wanting others to do it, I just mean the rule breakers.

Thanks,

Morto.

[Duddy]

Sorry Morto, but if you've said you don't intend to breach the NDA... then why would anything anyone else does influence that?

Furthermore, just because something is shown outside of NDA, this doesn't then mean it becomes fair game to anyone else to show it.

With this in mind your question seems either redundant or disingenuous.

[SuperMorto]

Morto, since you plan on doing streamed events in PS2, why not check in with the devs first if there's an NDA? Maybe there could be a way to work around it.

@ Taco,

I am already talking with folks from SOE, still don't have anything solid about it. But if I find out I will let everybody else know.

The NDA will be likely be laid back seeing as they released keys to any stranger who buys PC gamer. However, that doesn't mean they'll let people get away with it if they find out.

Probably, you'll see loads of information released on PS2's Beta. If there's anything piracy has thought us it's that you won't be able to control people who have access to the internet. somebody will post footage online. I don't know if YT would remove it - maybe, but then again YT isn't the only video hosting site.

So I guess there's your answer. Especially given the release of thousands of keys, the devs are probably expecting a lot of leakage that they won't/can't do anything about.

This is the problem, a laid back view means folks will get away with uploading streaming content. But folks and sites ran by folks like myself will loose out, as we advertise what we show on twitter etc.

This really is a funny position to be in. Break the rules to help, or dont break the rules and not help as much.

lol :)

[SuperMorto]

Sorry Morto, but if you've said you don't intend to breach the NDA... then why would anything anyone else does influence that?

Furthermore, just because something is shown outside of NDA, this doesn't then mean it becomes fair game to anyone else to show it.

With this in mind your question seems either redundant or disingenuous.

I suppose what I mean by my comments is will the end of the NDA be official or will it sort of just die off and be unofficially ended as the internet fills up with PS2 content.

but I do see where you coming from Dud.

[Duddy]

I suppose what I mean by my comments is will the end of the NDA be official or will it sort of just die off and be unofficially ended as the internet fills up with PS2 content.

but I do see where you coming from Dud.

Well that is a good question, and probably something only the right legal representatives at SOE have an answer for! So I think you'd need to talk to SOE. :P

In terms of generating content without breaking NDA, I think the bestapproach is trying to arrange exclusive content (not to dissimilar from what PSU and other sites do!). As to what type of content that is, well that's for you to figure out. ;)

[BigBossMonkey]

First rule of Beta: Dont speak about Beta!

Some dont even allow you tell anyone youre in. Guess that one will be broken on this site.

Even if we do talk about it, this isn't some underground thing... The at least half a dozen developers visit here DAILY. And those are just the ones who log in.

Hopefully not many people lose beta access as a result.

[Raymac]

I just had a thought:

Conspiracy Keanu on Planetside 2 (http://qkme.me/36ew74)

[Sirisian]

What an odd thread. When you get invited you'll sign an agreement, just read it then. It'll say if you can talk about it or upload content to the Internet. I was in the Microsoft Flight alpha and I'm in another alpha at the moment and they're all extremely clear what you can and cannot do. For instance, Microsoft Flight said you couldn't tell anyone or talk about it and you had to use their official alpha/beta channels to talk. The new one I'm in has alpha forums setup. The same system happened when I was in the Stargate Worlds alpha and the Vanguard: SOH beta. Special forums and you were expected not to talk to anyone about the game except those already in it. So just wait and read it. If you have questions about the wording post in their official forum when you're in and someone will clarify things.

That said it's like fight club usually.

I just had a thought:

Conspiracy Keanu on Planetside 2 (http://qkme.me/36ew74)
:lol:

[Coreldan]

Well as said, I dont expect NDA breaching content to stay on at least YouTube for long. I'd suppose something like the biggest streaming names will be very swift to remove the content too upon SOEs demand. I'd suppose it's also a legal thing, they probably cant "not act" when it comes to illegal content.

Naturally stuff will get a way on the smaller sites for sure.

APB Reloaded's beta also had such an NDA that you werent ever allowed to publish the NDA bound footage. When NDA was lifted, it still bound the old footage, so you were only allowed to upload stuff from the post-NDA build. That made "piling up" video content ready for when the NDA got lifted impossible.

I'd suggest especially you with such an ambitious project not to breach the NDA even if everyone else did, you've managed to establish a good connection to the devs, they might not want to "help you" out afterwards if you wont stick to the NDA :D

I wouldnt really worry though. Most NDA breaches for games in beta have gone down fairly fast from any major site where people actually are on, including the streaming websites. I dont think you'll lose much customers to some private russian site hosting videos :D

[Firefly]

Pro-tip: when in doubt, throw it out.

Each game defines its beta NDA terms, both technically and in layman's terms. Most closed betas are strict and rigid, whilst open beta becomes much more lax.

With regards to being a content manager, as I understand that's what you are getting at - is OTHER people submitting content - you should hold them to the same standards. I would recommend having a strict moderation policy, with a warning for the first offense and a ban/suspension for the second offense. And have sufficient coverage. As well as a clearly defined copy of your policy in whatever website sign-up process you have, and a copy of the SOE Planetside 2 NDA.

[EVILPIG]

Honestly, I really don't see the point of this thread. The NDA will be clear. When the NDA ends will be clear. Though you stated you won't violate it SuperMotto, you're fishing for a "feel" of who will and whether people should. There is technically nothing wrong with the question, but it doesn't seem like a very smart thing to be doing given you are looking to establish a relationship with the developers and gain some exclusive content for your project. From this end, it appears untrustworthy, whether it was your intention or not.

Not a knock on your project, in fact, I commend you for trying. I hope it works out as a valuable resource.

[Graywolves]

Unless the NDA states otherwise I intend to record and prepare some things so that it can be ready after the NDA is lifted.


As I said, unless it is stated otherwise.

[Coreldan]

Unless the NDA states otherwise I intend to record and prepare some things so that it can be ready after the NDA is lifted.


As I said, unless it is stated otherwise.

Same here :D

[ThGlump]

Unless the NDA states otherwise I intend to record and prepare some things so that it can be ready after the NDA is lifted.


As I said, unless it is stated otherwise.

Be quiet. They are reading this site. Now you put it in their mind and they add that line to NDA. I blame you :)

[Shogun]

first: never ever violate beta nda in any form. it´s not only a legal problem, it can even hurt the game and the game´s image.
if others do, simply ignore it, or even report them to soe.
stockpiling footage for after nda drop may be possible or not. depends on the details in the nda we don´t know yet.
but it will always be an option to record something, and send it to the devs for approvement. soe can grant you the right to show off stuff, just ask them for every single bit of content.
like higby said in the latest hardcore interview, the communication between devs and community is the best part of ps2 developement. some years ago i wouldn´t have suggested such an impossible thing as to contact a developer of a game and get an answer ;-)

[Mastachief]

Yeh the NDA is pretty much in the name. Like hamma says it may extend to anything filmed in the nda beta. This will help prevent embarrassing bug videos and the like.

Unfortunately as the beta sample grows this will become impossible to police.

[texico]

I actually read the terms before signing up for Beta, although I can't remember all the details. However, it did talk about something along the lines of a NDA, and I vaguely recall it mentioning that it could be against the terms to record any footage or take any screens.

I definitely remember it stating that a specific forum for testers would be opened, which is the only place you'd be allowed to talk about Beta, and only to other beta testers.

I can't find the terms again though.

[Vash02]

If they expect people to not take any screenies or video I laugh at their naivety. Ha.

[Crator]

I was gonna say, how can they tell if the screenshots/video are made during beta? I can see if they are posted before the NDA is over how it could be an issue. But are they really gonna police every screenshot/video after the NDA is over to check to make sure they weren't made during beta?

[cellinaire]

I doubt it even has a NDA. I mean they just released possibly tens of thousands of keys in PC-Gamer. if someone releases some footage they probably wont be caught.

Talking about guilty pleasure. Haha!

[stordito]

first rule of the fight club...

[SuperMorto]

EVILPIG, im not fishing for anything, but I have used the ignore button for that remark, please get a grasp of and OPer (me) before making comments. You clearly have no idea what I'm about. And wishing me and my project good luck does nothing to me after an insulting reply.

Ok folks I'm not out to break the NDA, I'm not thief or a cheater, I do respect companies and individuals. Please drill that into your head before you make silly posts about me. Or the the ignore button will be released along with the hounds! But lets get this strait, I'm not gona sit back and watch others freely stream and upload videos without any problems.

So I put it on SOE's head to make it clear to me what can and cant be done, and to keep the NDA updated ferociously. I will abide by every rule with no problems if this is done.

first: never ever violate beta nda in any form. it´s not only a legal problem, it can even hurt the game and the game´s image.
if others do, simply ignore it, or even report them to soe.
stockpiling footage for after nda drop may be possible or not. depends on the details in the nda we don´t know yet.
but it will always be an option to record something, and send it to the devs for approvement. soe can grant you the right to show off stuff, just ask them for every single bit of content.
like higby said in the latest hardcore interview, the communication between devs and community is the best part of ps2 developement. some years ago i wouldn´t have suggested such an impossible thing as to contact a developer of a game and get an answer ;-)

@ Shogun, Finally a reply I was after. This look more like the info I needed. I have never been in a beta, well not one I can remember anyway. So I don't know many of the written and unwritten rules. I may try a little harder with SOE to get some approval to show stuff later in the beta.

If they expect people to not take any screenies or video I laugh at their naivety. Ha.

This was the original reason I made this "odd thread" to understand how things worked and how strict the NDA will be. And.... that was all stated in the title.

Yeh the NDA is pretty much in the name. Like hamma says it may extend to anything filmed in the nda beta. This will help prevent embarrassing bug videos and the like.

Unfortunately as the beta sample grows this will become impossible to police.

Thats another point, will SOE just wait for level of content to be on the internet before they lift it? I just hope the community get the heads up before the folks who don't care about NDA's etc.

Morto.

[Yutty]

I definitely remember it stating that a specific forum for testers would be opened, which is the only place you'd be allowed to talk about Beta, and only to other beta testers.


This

[sylphaen]

EVILPIG, im not fishing for anything, but I have used the ignore button for that remark, please get a grasp of and OPer (me) before making comments. You clearly have no idea what I'm about. And wishing me and my project good luck does nothing to me after an insulting reply.

Sorry Morto but I think you are overreacting. Evilpig did have a point.

What's the point of a public thread asking to people if they will act in a dishonorable fashion and breach a non-disclosure agreement ?

We all know NDAs can be breached successfully without getting caught. Those documents work first and foremost on honorable conduct.

A thread about guessing how strict the NDA would be can be fun since it's all about conjectures, assumptions and opinions. However, trying to get a feel of who will break an NDA should be done... In private.

I think that's what Evil tried to say and not to insult you. And if I read it wrong, maybe I just do not understand what you mean and you can discard this opinion.

[Hamma]

What exactly ARE you asking then Morto.

[SuperMorto]

What exactly ARE you asking then Morto.

The reason I kick off is most of you have me all wrong. You imply alot when it comes to me, most of you just like having a dig when you can and that is a fact. Also some of you may have valid points, but im afraid you get dragged into the shit storm with the other fools. Thats just the way it is. I get very defensive on this site only because of the actions of the people on it. I make my own choices remember that.

And Hamma, I'm surprised at you.

Tittle of this thread says it all:

Quick question, how strict is the NDA during beta?

Its not to hard for you all is it?

Grr.

[sylphaen]

Well, to answer strictly to that question:
- either no one knows because beta has not started and thus no one had to agree to a NDA.
- or some people are in beta and the NDA is as strict as the fight club's NDA because no one in beta has talked about beta.

[XPquant]

Honestly, I really don't see the point of this thread. The NDA will be clear. When the NDA ends will be clear. Though you stated you won't violate it SuperMotto, you're fishing for a "feel" of who will and whether people should. There is technically nothing wrong with the question, but it doesn't seem like a very smart thing to be doing given you are looking to establish a relationship with the developers and gain some exclusive content for your project. From this end, it appears untrustworthy, whether it was your intention or not.

Not a knock on your project, in fact, I commend you for trying. I hope it works out as a valuable resource.

+1 EVILPIG

[Hamma]

Yes... the NDA will be strict? It's an NDA.. Kind of pointless thread overall.. sorry Morto :p

Someone will violate it and someone always does. Overall though NDA's for game beta's don't have much in the way of teeth. They will remove the content and kick the offender from beta.

[Aurmanite]

A public beta like this won't have an NDA.

The main thing wrong with this thread is that the OP is asking a fansite what the NDA is going to be like. None of us have any clue.

The next thing that is wrong with this thread is that the OP seems to state they would break the NDA. Because "everyone else is doing it", or "I want to increase awareness of the game" are not good reasons to break rules. We are not 5 years old. We should know the difference.

[Coreldan]

A public beta like this won't have an NDA.


I bet you are wrong.

[DayOne]

A public beta like this won't have an NDA.

Not once it goes to open beta. Closed beta will just have the letters "N-D-A" written across the sky in volumetric clouds!

[SuperMorto]

Yes... the NDA will be strict? It's an NDA.. Kind of pointless thread overall.. sorry Morto :p

Someone will violate it and someone always does. Overall though NDA's for game beta's don't have much in the way of teeth. They will remove the content and kick the offender from beta.


That will do me, Ive never been involved in one so I didn't know.

See it was that easy.

:)

[EVILPIG]

I don't understand why you are being so abrasive with the community Morto. You're blaming everyone else for their reaction to what you wrote. Perhaps you should think about how you are presenting yourself, especially since you have an aspiring project that will need these very same people to be successful. I was answering your question and encouraging you to follow the NDA. I was also warning you to not break it. For whatever reason, it cannot be justified. I also offered my opinion as to how your original post looks, from my perspective. It's not an acusation nor an indictment of your character.

[Fortress]

Yep, sure is autistic in here.

[SuperMorto]

Honestly, I really don't see the point of this thread. The NDA will be clear. When the NDA ends will be clear. Though you stated you won't violate it SuperMotto, you're fishing for a "feel" of who will and whether people should. There is technically nothing wrong with the question, but it doesn't seem like a very smart thing to be doing given you are looking to establish a relationship with the developers and gain some exclusive content for your project. From this end, it appears untrustworthy, whether it was your intention or not.

Not a knock on your project, in fact, I commend you for trying. I hope it works out as a valuable resource.

Ok let me begin.

0. I have stopped smoking and sometimes I just love a good flame fest, and a lot of you provide this for me :) Thank you.

1. I don't know 95% of this community. I have been here only a few months. Now it is far easier for me to hit the ignore button than it is to defend my corner every time I make a post, as I am doing now, again. But also while I am typing I'm on TS, and the guys on there are looking at this post, and they get it? So why do you folks not?

2. I asked a question, I was after an answer. I was not after this:


"I really don't see the point of this thread" (I forgot I had to explain why I ask a question..... not!, I had my reasons, but it was long winded so I didn't share)
"you're fishing for a "feel" of who will and whether people should" (you don't know the point of this thread so how could you know what I'm doing/thinking? this was a guess nothing more. But stated it as if it was fact.)
"technically nothing wrong with the question" (So why did you post the above? Why could you just contribute the to the answer?)


Awww. Here we are again flaming Morto. Good luck beating a dead horse.

http://i.imgur.com/KgU5V.png

[Fortress]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsWHZGQtuwd39ZpRKQj9e6aJ2D6jCu6 jg2ZxaFMJftn2HTIb0i

[Fortress]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9ymTvbbMDfC5-ZuSfAuNFcMLuP7CODA_bL_LmqR_1SFMZ6hgV

[Fortress]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7n8ES-XU28G1oADrsmzNCPDTTpC8jmqrZmCPdrEca6MzoxS-mRw

[SuperMorto]

Really your spamming puppies now?

[Fortress]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgdaoD3ZPWJHoTfeU5RZXffAGBIKvsE IXrNV_2pHQBu_XOKCuM

[Fortress]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwFITUt4owzEm5iW3VssB4GWUzlki6T lCsQUpXfXqRUk4FOGYe

[SuperMorto]

Kazoos - YouTube

[Graywolves]

Fortress is my favorite Troll

[Hydra]

Fortress is my favorite Troll

I think its because hes so shitty at doing it. :lol:

[Hamma]

Since Morto got his answer I am closing this.

Fortress, do not spam threads with one image replies.