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View Full Version : I want feedback on this computer spec. Orderring tonight!


Drex
2003-03-25, 10:55 PM
Here's what I put together at www.micropro.com

SILVER Service Plan (3 Years Labor, 1 Year Parts).
Enermax CSX3171LS Black Tower Case 350W P.S..
Asus A7N8X nForce2 SPP/MCP DDR266/333 USB 2.0 AGP8X Audio .
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ "Barton" (333MHz FSB).
Coolermaster CP5-6J31C CPU Fan.
512MB Corsair PC3200 DDR400 CMX512-3200C2.
ALPS DF354H 3.5" Black Floppy Disk Drive.
40GB 7200RPM Ultra ATA/100 WD400BB.
32x10x40x12x DVD-ROM/CD-RW Black, Toshiba.
Chaintech GeForce4 Ti4800SE 128MB, Retail.
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition.
Chicony KB-2961 Keyboard PS-2, Black.

This is costing me $1007 with shipping included. Is this a good deal? Everything is compatible right?

*edit* - Another question, would it be worth waiting another few weeks/month to order this? Would the price go down very much on any of the parts that would make it worth the wait?

Trebor95
2003-03-26, 06:06 AM
looks ok, however I would suggest a beefier heatsink, a Thermalright SLK800? or SK-6/7?

you could go for cheaper Ram like Twinmos unless you are a hardcore overclocker? I wouldn't go for the Geforce imo, a Radeon 9700/Pro is a much better option and will compliment the rest of the system much more.

Motherboard is ok, ASUS are very good, although that model is a little dated, but as they say ... tried and tested tends to be more stable, you wont need the Corsair ram anyway asthat mother board only supports PC2700 at stock anyway :)

but all in all that setup looks excellent, it will be upgradeable, if I had to change one thing I would change the gfx card, a Radeon 9700 PRO will last much longer than the Geforce (in terms of running future games)

HTH

Zatrais
2003-03-26, 06:44 AM
You don't want a Barton core, they perform overally worse than the thoroughbreed....

And heres what you want motherboard wise: The a7n8x running 512 (or more) MB corsaires CL2 333mhz (pc 2700, DAMN i HATE that system) whit a xp2700 thoroughbreed. Reason: You want the ram and cpu to run at the same speed for synchronious transfer rates whit dual band DDR for optimal performance.

And a 9700 pro if you can afford one hehe.

edit: and oh yea, you might want a 400W+ PSU.. 350 won't cut it much longer.

Drex
2003-03-26, 09:11 AM
Ok how is this setup instead? I downgraded the Barton 2500 to a regular Athlon 2400. Downgraded the ram from pc3200 to pc2700 and upgraded the video card to a 9700. This totals $1100, so for $100 more is this a better setup?

SILVER Service Plan (3 Years Labor, 1 Year Parts).
Enermax CSX3171LS Black Tower Case 350W P.S..
Asus A7N8X nForce2 SPP/MCP DDR266/333 USB 2.0 AGP8X Audio .
AMD Athlon XP 2400+ (266MHz FSB).
Coolermaster CP5-6J31C CPU Fan.
512MB Corsair PC2700 DDR333 CMX512-2700C2.
ALPS DF354H 3.5" Black Floppy Disk Drive.
40GB 7200RPM Ultra ATA/100 WD400BB.
32x10x40x12x DVD-ROM/CD-RW Black, Toshiba.
ATI Radeon 9700 PRO 128MB, 8X AGP, Retail.
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition.
Chicony KB-2961 Keyboard PS-2, Black.

I could also get a Tyan Tachyon G9700 Pro-M 128DDR video card for the same price ($366) as the ATI...Which is better Tyan or ATI?

And also I dont have the option for a better heatsink but that case has 5 fans on it already. That good enough?


My other option is to stick with the GeForce 4 card mentioned above and upgrade to the Athlon 2600 (not barton) and also downgrade to pc2700 DDR...I do not want to spend more than $1100 for this.

Thanks for the feedback by the way, keep it coming as I want to order this when I get home from work tonight!

Zatrais
2003-03-26, 09:21 AM
Thats a better setup yeah, you'd want a xp 2700 for the best performance from your ram tho, the speeds would match then but if you can't afford the 2700 i'd go whit the setup you have there.

As for the cooling, you have plenty...

There shouldn't be anny difference between the 2 9700 pro's but i'll take a look at the Tachyon G9700 Pro-M 128DDR if you post a link to it.

Trebor95
2003-03-26, 10:02 AM
i said need, zatrais didnt :) you could choose any CPU you wanted, they all perform great :) my personal choice would also be the 2700

all the XP2700 denotes is the equivalent clock speed a thunderbird has to be to equal the xp's performance, it has no reference to ram. what stepping is the CPU? the t-bred b's are much better than the a revision and run cooler.

ok, you have the XP2400, it will run at 166fsb, (266FSB DDR) and the PCI/AGP buses are locked on the nforce2 board. The multiplier will be multiplied by the fsb to give the clock speed.

also you would be better off in getting 2 separate sticks of ram to run them dual channel.

go for the cheapest Radeon, they are all the same spec and difference between brands are 1-2fps at most, they simply are not at all different as the geforce4's are.

you should really get a decent heatsink to keep temperatures reasonable, but try it with the default one first. those 5 fans are overkill, you only want 2-3 one in the front bottom drawing cold air in, one at the very top as a chimmney extracting hot air from the top of the case and one at the back below the PSU to extract warm air from the heatsink area.

Zatrais
2003-03-26, 10:05 AM
where did i say need? i never said NEED....

however, for the BEST results on dual band DDR board you should match the ram and cpu bus speeds.

Trebor95
2003-03-26, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by Zatrais
where did i say need? i never said NEED....

however, for the BEST results on dual band DDR board you should match the ram and cpu bus speeds.

sorry, you didnt say need, my bad

I agree you are best matching speeds, it's just it sounded that your previous post was saying that only an XP2700 would be suitable for best performance. Also 200FSB (400DDR) - I must leasrn to analyse :)

:love:

SpacemanSpiff
2003-03-26, 11:01 AM
Alright Drex,

I'd have to agree with the advice Trebor and Zatrais are giving you. They definitely know what they're talking about.

Only (and this is my personal experience and research) - The "Barton" is great, and I have a 2500 "Barton" myself. You can check out www.tomshardware.com to check out some benchmarks that compare the Barton with the Thoroughbred, and, for the most part, the Barton shows a significant number of advantages in speed. With the 2500 Barton only going for about 170$ these days... you really won't go wrong with whatever Proc you end up choosing.. they're all good - but I went with the Barton myself, and I've been an AMD whore since AMD released the AMD K6 (321-pin PGA) chip, and that was quite some time ago.

Also, Zatrais is right about the Radeon 9700's differing insignificantly as far as brands are concerned. Although, you're getting the 9700 (which is what I have myself), here's a little factoid about the GeForce 4800 - it's simply the GeForce 4400 with 8x AGP... so, the GeForce 4600 is actually a better card than the 4800.. heh.

Anyway, be sure to go to pricewatch.com to see if there are other places that may have that rig for a better deal. It looks good so far though. I tend to do most of my shopping at newegg.com. Of course, I doubt you'd get the warranty there, so it's a toss-up.

SpaceDrake
2003-03-26, 01:57 PM
TYAN, by the way. Tyan owns all your children.

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/tachyon9700/images/01.jpg

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/tachyon9700/images/02.jpg

Awesome cooling. Booyah. Buy one now and spread the Love. :love:

SpacemanSpiff
2003-03-26, 02:04 PM
Tyan can cool, but can it dance?

Seriously, the benchmark differences between the standard ATI Radeon 9700 are insignificant... better off to save money and buy any decent OEM.

OneManArmy
2003-03-26, 02:18 PM
I love these myths you guys throw around....

1. the man does not need a beefier cooling system unless he is going to over clock.

2. PC 2700 ram is the way to go. there is no improvement in 3200

3. yes, ram speed should equal proccesor speed (i.e if you have 333mhz ram get the CPU with the 333mhz fsb [2500+ and up I think]

4. Gfx card is a gfx card is a gfx card. (unless you're comparing two different types like Geforce vs Ati...

5. Dual channel ram will NOT give you any real world performance increase. (it only helps when everything is integrated)

now its time for my opinions...

go for the 9700 (or better yet PRO version)
get some CAS 2 latency PC2700 ram
get the 2500+ or better
get 512mb in one stick (allows for more ram later)
no real comment on the Power supply but just to let ya know I run similar to that machine on a 300w (though I do recommend going higher)


thank you for your time...
PS: i wasn't bashing anyone, I have much :love: !

SpacemanSpiff
2003-03-26, 02:22 PM
Here's some loving feedback. ;)

Once everything is integrated... you will definitely see an improvement with dual integrated RAM.

Also, I'll have to piggyback on your comment of 2700 RAM - this is true, but even moreso than you said. There have been numerous benchmarks that show that a gamer will get even better fps on dual integrated 2700 RAM than on dual integrated 3200 or higher. Much love. :love:

OneManArmy
2003-03-26, 02:30 PM
1-2 fps don't count :p


It doesnt justify the money and taking up an extra slot where you could put more ram in later.

SpacemanSpiff
2003-03-26, 03:19 PM
Not if you install TWO 512mb RAM Corsairs. :p Then you're just ahead of the pack.

Drex
2003-03-26, 03:30 PM
So go with Barton 2.5ghz or the regular 2.4ghz? I dont have enough money to get the 2.7ghz so that's outa the question. I have some people saying Barton is good and some saying dont get Barton...I have no idea what Barton is in the first place lol.

Also if you want to see the difference between the ATI and Tyan cards you'll have to go to www.micropro.com and go to the configure option and take a look at the video cards, it wont let me post a direct link to it.

Also the case for my cpu has a neon light inside and one of the fans has a sound activated neon light in it as well...This isnt going to effect performance or anything, taking up power, will it? Should I just go with a plain boring case? I like the way this one looks.

Thanks again for the help!

OneManArmy
2003-03-26, 03:34 PM
get the barton. get the ati. don't worry about the neon light, its nothing more than decoration..

Drex
2003-03-26, 06:39 PM
I found this 9700 for nearly $100 cheaper than the one that I'd get built into my system if I bought it at micropro.com...is this the same as any other 9700 pro? Should I order my system with no video card and then order this one seperately?

http://www.ocsystem.com/atirad8512dd1.html

I dunno if the sight I linked looks too legitimate, maybe I'm just too skeptical...it says "This the OEM white box version, same as ATI" then says down at the bottom they arent responsible for typographical errors. Is this sketchy? SHould I just buy the 9700 with my computer and pay the extra $90?

OneManArmy
2003-03-26, 08:29 PM
yesm that card is the same as any other radeon 9700 PRO


dont worry I bought my 9500 pro from them!!! they are very good.

Drex
2003-03-26, 09:27 PM
ehh too late, bought my system, went with the 2.5ghz barton and the 9700 retail. Cant wait for it to come!

BurningSpear
2003-03-26, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Trebor95
Motherboard is ok, ASUS are very good, although that model is a little dated, but as they say ... tried and tested tends to be more stable, you wont need the Corsair ram anyway asthat mother board only supports PC2700 at stock anyway :)


No mean to flame here, trebor, but where do you get your info? This board came out only several months ago and all reviewers hail it as THE board for athlons. and the ram issue? here's the specs:
Specifications:
CPU Supported: Socket A AMD Athlon/XP/Duron (600MHz - 2.8.GHz up to XP2800)Throughbred core CPU ready
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce2 SPP
FSB: 333/266/200MHz
IDE: 2x channel ATA133
RAM: 3x 184-pin DIMM Sockets(PC3200/PC2700/PC2100/PC1600 non-ECC DDR Ram)
Slots: 1x AGP (Pro/8X), 5x PCI
Ports: 2xPS2, 4xUSB, 1xCOM,1xLPT, and Audio Ports
Onboard Audio:Realtek® ALC650 6CH
Onboard LAN: MCP integrated NVIDIA® MAC + Realtek® 8201BL PHY

anyway, gl with yer system, man. sounds good.

Zatrais
2003-03-27, 04:03 AM
ehh too late, bought my system, went with the 2.5ghz barton and the 9700 retail. Cant wait for it to come!

9700? You didn't get the 9700 pro?

Trebor95
2003-03-27, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Zatrais
9700? You didn't get the 9700 pro?

theres virtually no real world difference in performance between the 2 if you take the price difference into account, but then again I live in the UK and there are big £'s difference between the non-pro and pro :)

Trebor95
2003-03-27, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by BurningSpear
No mean to flame here, trebor, but where do you get your info? This board came out only several months ago and all reviewers hail it as THE board for athlons. and the ram issue? here's the specs:
Specifications:
CPU Supported: Socket A AMD Athlon/XP/Duron (600MHz - 2.8.GHz up to XP2800)Throughbred core CPU ready
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce2 SPP
FSB: 333/266/200MHz
IDE: 2x channel ATA133
RAM: 3x 184-pin DIMM Sockets(PC3200/PC2700/PC2100/PC1600 non-ECC DDR Ram)
Slots: 1x AGP (Pro/8X), 5x PCI
Ports: 2xPS2, 4xUSB, 1xCOM,1xLPT, and Audio Ports
Onboard Audio:Realtek® ALC650 6CH
Onboard LAN: MCP integrated NVIDIA® MAC + Realtek® 8201BL PHY

anyway, gl with yer system, man. sounds good.

ROFL - how much of an idiot am I? :o :rolleyes: i totally mis read the spec of that motherboard, I thought it was a KT333 based motherboard :eek: :o i must have simply glazed over the nforce 2 bit.

Apologies, thats a really nice motherboard.

Zatrais
2003-03-27, 09:23 AM
theres virtually no real world difference in performance between the 2 if you take the price difference into account, but then again I live in the UK and there are big £'s difference between the non-pro and pro

Heres the difference between the pro/nonpro

275/540 non pro clockspeeds
= 16.2 gb/sec bandwidth or GF FX bandwith. You'll notice it when you crank up AA/FA.. that low bandwidth is kinda what kills the FX.

325/620 pro clockspeeds.
= 19.3 gb/sec bandwitdh.. Those 3 extra gb helps immensly whit AA/FA. Try turning your 9700 pro down to non pro levels.. you'll notice.

The AA/FA is kinda the reason to get the 9700, least to me.. The difference between the pro and non pro here wasn't much, $10..

Depends on the size of the price difference i bet.. You sure you didn't look at at AIW 9700 and not a pro? the AIW cards are insanly more costly.

Drex
2003-03-27, 10:14 AM
I did get the Pro, my bad.

Trebor95
2003-03-27, 10:15 AM
ahhh :) the price difference here is about £70 or $110 in your currency :)

thats for a card from sapphire

Zatrais
2003-03-27, 10:17 AM
Makes sense then... Sapphire mods their cards some.. or they sell some high end ones that they mod by adding heatrails and such

Trebor95
2003-03-27, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Zatrais
Makes sense then... Sapphire mods their cards some.. or they sell some high end ones that they mod by adding heatrails and such

these are the same as any other Radeon, they arent modded at all, same clock speeds etc. no added heatsinks or ramsinks.

yep - looked at a few places all 9700 - 9700Pro seems to be a price gap of £70 // $110

Zatrais
2003-03-27, 10:27 AM
fucked up pricing there then hehe.

Trebor95
2003-03-27, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Zatrais
fucked up pricing there then hehe.

too right

"AMD Athlon "Thoroughbred" XP 2700+ 333FSB"

£215.67 // $338.69

:(

SpacemanSpiff
2003-03-27, 01:06 PM
Of course the 9700 pro is going to go down significantly within a month... once the 9800 comes charging out that is. I'm building my new baby tonight... and going to run some mad benchmarks on it. :rock: