Improvements to the TR's Mini Chaingun

[Orisoll]

I just recently purchased TR's ES heavy weapon, and needless to say I'm a bit let down. Having tried both the Lasher and the Jackhammer, I can safely say that this weapon is the worst at what it does.

You see, the other two ESHWs have a trait that helps the weapon in its respective roll (splash/3x burst), unlike the MCG who's special trait (spin-up time) is it's downfall. So I propose a few changes that could be made to make this weapon worth using, and not outclassed by all the other LMG's in the game.


Remove all recoil.
This would give the weapon a trait that actually helps its performance, rather than causing it to fall flat.

Increase RoF to 900RPM.
This should be done regardless of any other improvments, because the minigun should be the maximum dakka weapon (that means NC weapons shouldn't out RoF it, which they do). The spin-up time is a huge detrement to this guns effectivness, and needs something more than 800RPM to balance it out.

Give access to ADV. Laser sight.
The MCG has no access to scopes -and is primarily a hipfire weapon- which is why the lack of a fitting attatchment selection is a bit odd.

Decrease/remove spin-up time.
This should not be done if any of the other items on this list are added, as it would get rid of the need to balance out a major flaw.

Make it underslung.
For the sake of awsomeness.


Please keep in mind that these are separate suggestions, I'm well aware that all together these would make the MCG the only gun worth using. Read this on a "pick two" basis.

Anyhow, what are your thoughts? Do you think it's fine as is, or do you see room for improvement?

[bpostal]

At the bare minimum, number 5 needs to be implemented.

[maradine]

The MCG is within 10% kills per user of the Jackhammer, vastly superior to the Lasher, and as popular with players as both of the others combined. A better question would be "what did you expect out of it?" They all have different roles.

[AThreatToYou]

#5 is all that needs to be done.

[Stick Pin]

I don't use it because of the spin time. What good is it when you see a light flying above you?

[camycamera]

At the bare minimum, number 5 needs to be implemented.
^

i have araxium on the chaingun, and i would definitely go back to it and get another 1000 kills just because number 5 would be so badass.

[MaxDamage]

As a MAX user I despise the lasher. It blinds us, hits us with direct and splash damage and can be fired from behind cover at night whilst the user strafes so that it is near impossible to see or shoot the person firing it. To say the MCG is superior is laughable.

[maradine]

To say the MCG is superior is laughable.

Hardly; the MCG is a vastly more productive killer. This really isn't up for debate. That doesn't mean the Lasher is pointless or weak - like I said, they all have different roles. I'm sure its sucks to be a MAX on the end of the Lasher. You are, however, not scoring a lot of actual kills with it, comparatively. And, as such, I ask - what does OP want out of the MCG, exactly? Asking for a laundry list of kill enhancers doesn't make a ton of sense for a highly kill-productive HA special.

[ChipMHazard]

Apart from the Lasher I don't really think the old heavy weapons have much of a role in PS2 since we already have sooo many weapons that more or less do the same thing. At least the Lasher is unique in its function.
As such I don't really know what should/could be done about the MCG since it's already doing what it's supposed to in an effective enough manner. I think the problem here is that it's just drowning in a sea of LMGs and other weapons choices for the HA.
SOE is going to have be more creative when it comes to making both the Jackhammer and MCG more unique, imo.

All that said I would still like to see it become an underslug again:p

[Orisoll]

What does OP want out of the MCG, exactly? Asking for a laundry list of kill enhancers doesn't make a ton of sense for a highly kill-productive HA special.
I suggested various independent improvements as possible ways to make the weapon itself have a niche that isn't being a very bad LMG. The spin-up time renders it's supposed function (group thinning) obsolete, as it makes the user an easy kill before he/she can even get the thing spooled up. Removing the spin-up time or buffing other aspects of the gun would make it fulfill it's role much better.

As for the "highly kill-productive" part, it is a terrible weapon for just straight-up one-on-one fragging. The MSW-R and T9 CARV are better for any and every situation the MCG would be good at, and don't have any spin-up mechanic. The Chaingun is supposed to be a group-killing weapon, but it's special mechanic renders that niche null and void.

That is not to say the other ESHWs are great at what they do, it's just that the MCG is the only one that doesn't fill it's roll at all.

[Lonehunter]

SOE is fully aware of the underslung preference. That's how it was in PS1, it was addressed after we first saw the new version They basically said to make it look respectable they'd have to do new animations for all the armor class avatars. I'm not saying that's impossible, but using that many resources/time for 1 gun just isn't optimal.

[Plaqueis]

As a MAX user I despise the lasher. It blinds us, hits us with direct and splash damage and can be fired from behind cover at night whilst the user strafes so that it is near impossible to see or shoot the person firing it. To say the MCG is superior is laughable.

O'rly?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AshlLUNJ_SE8dHNCallDSUF5aVhBUVctUXQxUnlIS 2c&usp=sharing#gid=1

[Osskscosco]

Only bad thing about it is the model.

[Falcon_br]

There is a good explanation why the MCG is vastly used:
1- All other TR machineguns sucks, and they suck bad comparing to all other empires machineguns.
When a player is tired of using the t9 carv, he will choose the next weapon he will use, comparing the in-game status with all other weapons available, the only true option is the MCG.
The mcg is bad, it used to be good, but after 4 nerfs and 1 questionable buff, it is just like all TR weapons, far inferior from the other faction weapons. The lasher is bad at killing, but at least it have a tactical use, the noobhammer (sorry, played too much ps-1) is better then any other shotgun on the game, you just need to learn how to use it. The mcg is just a worst version of the t9 carv.

[Rolfski]

There is a good explanation why the MCG is vastly used:
1- All other TR machineguns sucks, and they suck bad comparing to all other empires machineguns..
TR lacks high flyer LMG's like the EM6 and overpowered SVA-88, but I doubt this is the main reason why MCG gets vastly used.

The MCG is the only TR MG that has pinpoint long range accuracy and devastating short range dps (if you prefire it, before turning around corners). Which makes it a good all-round gun in theory and probably explains its popularity.

The problem is that it sucks in either of these roles and it's use a team suppression weapon is also lacklustre (you're better off with a T9 Carv-S or T16 with extended mags). It doesn't fit any role particularly well where the Lasher is a great team weapon and the Jackhammer a good high skill shotgun.

[KesTro]

Honestly something I would love to see with the MCG above all else is the removal of the zoom function and your RMB would begin spinning the barrels instead. This would likely cause some noise to at least alert the players around the corner to the metric ton of death that's about to come their way.

[Mastachief]

The MCG is a great weapon, on par with the JH although suitable for total opposites in use. It needs nothing.

[Baptist]

The MCG is a great weapon, on par with the JH although suitable for total opposites in use. It needs nothing.

This

[Plaqueis]

The MCG is a great weapon, on par with the JH although suitable for total opposites in use. It needs nothing.

^This.

I just wish the full-auto flare-launcher we have would be even in the same ballpark but no...

[Falcon_br]

The MCG is a great weapon, on par with the JH although suitable for total opposites in use. It needs nothing.

The MCG is a good weapon, the problem is that it is just the second best machinegun we have, the NC got the best shotgun on the game and the VS got something gay.

I was doing a weapons comparison on the game, and it is hard to me to see why 80% of the TR arsenal have a practical use.

Looking for all heavy weapons on the TR arsenal:
The t9 carv is the best all around weapon, able to kill in long and close range. Since the nerf, the only big deal is that the foregrip is not optional, is essential.
The msw-r is better at close range, only, you can use it on long range with foregrip, but no point on using it over the t9 carv unless you are going inside a bio lab and there are few enemies inside where you have time to reload.
The tmg-50 is a long range weapon, worst than all long range hmg on the game, it is so bad that it is easier to kill with the t9 carv in long range then using the tmg-50, it sucks at close range, I have nearly auraxis with it, but I don´t recomend to anyone.
Rhino, t9 carv-s, bull, are just bad jokes, they are not real weapons.
The rhino doesn´t have a reflex 2x, what makes it or suffer a lot on close range engagements, unless you are using reflex 1x what will make you suffer a lot on long range engagements. It doesn´t have a compensator for long range.
The bull is the worst hmg on the game, it have a compensator, what makes useless to fire from the hip, the only bonus it got.
The t9 carv-s is worst then the t9 carv, more recoil, less dps, not one good useful attachement, with extended mags you can´t hit shit with it.

So, the only real option we got is the Mini chaingun after you got auraxis with the t9 carv, and it is worst then the t9 carv, we just use it because it is awesome to use a chaingun, too bad it is not a real chaingun.

[maradine]

too bad it is not a real chaingun. I hesitate to ask - what is a real chaingun? Hint: number of barrels unimportant.

[Ruffdog]

I hesitate to ask - what is a real chaingun? Hint: number of barrels unimportant.

One with an ex-US Governor on the end of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLWrmlIWb_w

[AThreatToYou]

I hesitate to ask - what is a real chaingun? Hint: number of barrels unimportant.

I like the point that is brought up here.

[Falcon_br]

I hesitate to ask - what is a real chaingun? Hint: number of barrels unimportant.

Chaingun are an area of denial weapon, they got replaced on the field with heavy machine guns.
They used to be fixed emplacements or carried on wheels.
Using the first concept of it created by Richard Jordan Gatling, industrial tecnology on its maximum use in murder.

You can use the lasher as a area of denial weapon, but you can't do that with the mini chaingun.
If they included suspression on the game, maybe the chaingun would be a support weapon, but they are clear they won't.
If they decrease the precision, but make it recoil less for the first 20 shots and with low recoil after that, maybe we could use as an area of denial weapon. Like it was on planetside 1.
The problem is, with weapon that needs almost 10 shots to kill someone (with nanoweaver) and with no suspression in the game, the mini chaingun is just another machine gun on the game.
Also, they are light machine guns, maybe some of they are general propose medium machine guns, but calling those weapons heavy machinegu s that normally needs to be deployed to fire, is an insult.

Making it a real chaingun, firing from under, using mouse 2 to spin up the barrels, and having adv laser sights, would really be very welcome for us.
We really don't care we will not be able to fire for cover, if you do care about that, please, join the VS.

[GreyFrog]

Wow, MCG just really isnt your weapon and I can't believe you complain about the MSW-R and Rhino. So far I've Auraxiumed the T9, MSW and MCG. The MCG was Auraxiumed in the smallest amount of time, its a room sweeper with a conc grenade and a great weapon to use when you are out numbered due to its 200 round mag (with ext). TTK with it is great when you chain headshots and its first few round when you ADS go dead straight.

I really like it :D .... in fact I really like most of the TR LMGs, except the TMG-50 :P

[maradine]

Chaingun are an area of denial weapon, they got replaced on the field with heavy machine guns.
They used to be fixed emplacements or carried on wheels.
Using the first concept of it created by Richard Jordan Gatling, industrial tecnology on its maximum use in murder.


That would be a Gatling gun. A chaingun is a weapon whose action is driven externally by a chain drive rather than by the gas expansion force of its cartridges. While there is frequently overlap, they are entirely different things. Gatling guns can be recoil driven, and chainguns can have one barrel. The status of RJG's original work is a curious corner case, being directly crank driven. You can thank Doom for the introduction of the confusion.

[Falcon_br]

Wow, MCG just really isnt your weapon and I can't believe you complain about the MSW-R and Rhino. So far I've Auraxiumed the T9, MSW and MCG. The MCG was Auraxiumed in the smallest amount of time, its a room sweeper with a conc grenade and a great weapon to use when you are out numbered due to its 200 round mag (with ext). TTK with it is great when you chain headshots and its first few round when you ADS go dead straight.

I really like it :D .... in fact I really like most of the TR LMGs, except the TMG-50 :P

How the hell do you think I got to BR-100? Repearing tanks?
I got auraxis with the mcg on the beta server, got again when the game went live, the actual mcg is not even a shadow of I the mcg from the beta servers.
Concussion grenade is also no longer a useful tool, everyone with a BR over 50 uses a sensitivity macro, everytime I will breach a room, someone on the direct blast of the grenade kills me while I am on the move!
On day one, mcg with just one nerf and the concussion grenade without the nerf it got, it was an awesome combo to clear control points with several enemies inside, paired with adrenaline shield.
After all the nerfs, mcg+concussion+adrenaline! All nerfed! This tactic got butchered.
I remember my outfit breaching training, conclusion, hold mouse one, count one second, get in, kill everyone inside.
With the dps nerf, the fire from the hip nerf, the all around CoF nerf, receiving a weapon with a very small dps on its first second, is an insult to the mcg.

[GreyFrog]

How the hell do you think I got to BR-100? Repearing tanks?
I got auraxis with the mcg on the beta server, got again when the game went live, the actual mcg is not even a shadow of I the mcg from the beta servers.
Concussion grenade is also no longer a useful tool, everyone with a BR over 50 uses a sensitivity macro, everytime I will breach a room, someone on the direct blast of the grenade kills me while I am on the move!
On day one, mcg with just one nerf and the concussion grenade without the nerf it got, it was an awesome combo to clear control points with several enemies inside, paired with adrenaline shield.
After all the nerfs, mcg+concussion+adrenaline! All nerfed! This tactic got butchered.
I remember my outfit breaching training, conclusion, hold mouse one, count one second, get in, kill everyone inside.
With the dps nerf, the fire from the hip nerf, the all around CoF nerf, receiving a weapon with a very small dps on its first second, is an insult to the mcg.

Yeah gunning and repairing tanks would be accurate looking at your player page. I tried to be opinion based in my original post, because thats what my thoughts on the MCG are....my opinion.

I never got to use the MCG before it got changed and I only used Resist Shield until a recent switch to adrenaline so I'm not sure what nerfs it got either. After talking with you and LessonTeacher(most MCG kills worldwide) it would appear the MCG used to be an amazing weapon, its still good, but you guys remember it as it used to be and it obviously disappointing.

I agree with the sensitivity macro issue re: concs, but the tactic of concing hitting adren shield and clearing a room with the MCG still works. My point is despite what the gun used to be, its still an effective weapon and lots of fun to use.

[Falcon_br]

Yeah gunning and repairing tanks would be accurate looking at your player page. I tried to be opinion based in my original post, because thats what my thoughts on the MCG are....my opinion.

I never got to use the MCG before it got changed and I only used Resist Shield until a recent switch to adrenaline so I'm not sure what nerfs it got either. After talking with you and LessonTeacher(most MCG kills worldwide) it would appear the MCG used to be an amazing weapon, its still good, but you guys remember it as it used to be and it obviously disappointing.

I agree with the sensitivity macro issue re: concs, but the tactic of concing hitting adren shield and clearing a room with the MCG still works. My point is despite what the gun used to be, its still an effective weapon and lots of fun to use.

Dude, I got more kills with the MCG then any other weapon in the game, vehicles weapons included. Also 180 more kills then you. If you look right at my status you would see 70% of my kills are from infantry weapons or explosives.

The MCG is not bad, but it is not good anymore. I just can clear rooms better with the t9 carv that I can do now with the MCG after the triple MCG nerf + concussion nerf + adrenaline shield nerf.

The fact is, we need to get almost all TR weapons redone to have any pratical use in this game. I do use all weapons in the TR arsenal, and most of then there is no point in existing, since they are worst then the default weapon in almost all situations. MCG included.

[GreyFrog]

Thats like, your opinion man. I personally find most TR weapons pretty good. TAR is a direct upgrade from the T1 Cycler and Lynx/Jag from Trac-5. I do like the T9 the best out of the LMGs so far, so I definitely agree there. The additional weapons should be side-grades that suit particular play styles so I have no expectation of them being better than the standard guns.

Incidentally 3 of your top 5 weapon kills are Prowler weapons - http://www.planetside-intel.com/character.php?id=5428010618019212913&view=weapon-performance

[Falcon_br]

Thats like, your opinion man. I personally find most TR weapons pretty good. TAR is a direct upgrade from the T1 Cycler and Lynx/Jag from Trac-5. I do like the T9 the best out of the LMGs so far, so I definitely agree there. The additional weapons should be side-grades that suit particular play styles so I have no expectation of them being better than the standard guns.

Incidentally 3 of your top 5 weapon kills are Prowler weapons - http://www.planetside-intel.com/character.php?id=5428010618019212913&view=weapon-performance

This is the worst website with top planetside 2 weapons I ever saw, I really don´t use much rocketpods and tank mines as a top weapon? Lol. I just use rocketpods when engaging, I am always on rotary equipped.
Yeah, I was on a quest to place all prowlers weapons on auraxis, did last week, now I am using the lighting.
And I was discussing with my outfit another day, jaguar is an waste of 250 certs, the trac-5 is better, in almost all situations. The only real good carbine we got is the lynx and it has been nerfed twice. You just use the trac-5s if you are going to spawn grenades.
The VS got the VX6-7 that is better then the lynx in almost all status, the even got the sepent for the price of the jaguar and maybe better then the vx6-7 and the lynx! Unless you think 0,75 move ADS a real boost to fire from the hip weapon. TR trademark, all advantages we got denay the best feature of it class.
Also, the Orion, default VS LMG it is better in all aspects to the MSW-R, TR second best LMG that got buffed once.
Like I said, unless they start making weapons unique, comparing in game status, the TR arsenal really lacks the top weapons of the other empires.

[GreyFrog]

Well that stats site works fine for total kills, the point being you clearly aren't some infantry playing expert with insight into the weapons we might not have achieved. All of your arguments so far is hearsay and opinion, written like they are truths.

Lets get down to some facts, the VX6-7 and Lynx are very similar stats wise. The Lynx benefits from a lower first shot recoil modifier, a 40 round clip, slightly lower horizontal recoil. The VX6-7 has better CoF and slightly faster bullet velocity. These weapons seem pretty well balanced against each other all in all, but once again this is going to come down to player preference.

The TR have a top notch weapon in every category, they even have a weapons that the other two empires cannot compete with. You are being overly dramatic with this "All TR weapons are the same and shit" rhetoric.

[Falcon_br]

Well that stats site works fine for total kills, the point being you clearly aren't some infantry playing expert with insight into the weapons we might not have achieved. All of your arguments so far is hearsay and opinion, written like they are truths.

Lets get down to some facts, the VX6-7 and Lynx are very similar stats wise. The Lynx benefits from a lower first shot recoil modifier, a 40 round clip, slightly lower horizontal recoil. The VX6-7 has better CoF and slightly faster bullet velocity. These weapons seem pretty well balanced against each other all in all, but once again this is going to come down to player preference.

The TR have a top notch weapon in every category, they even have a weapons that the other two empires cannot compete with. You are being overly dramatic with this "All TR weapons are the same and shit" rhetoric.

Dude, I have almost the double kills you have, 25k vs 15k, please, I may not be an specialist, but I know less the 50 TR on my server have more kills then me, so STFU when talking about kills and player status. Try to use another arguments.

Use a weapons chart before talking something you don´t know:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLW c&type=view&gid=12&f=true&colid0=17&filterstr0=CARBINE&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250
Both weapons got almost the same recoil, same maximum, lynx got 10% less mininum, something that means less then 5% extra recoil, something you can´t notice on a full clip. The extra 50% recoil on the first shot it is almost nothing for weapons where you can use 10-15 rounds burst.
Also lynx got much more horizontal recoil, something very hard to master, I don´t say it is impossible because it is the first weapon on the game I got auraxis, before the pump action shotguns and two nerfs it was king in CQC combat, only losing to the serpent in competent hands. The GD-7F is also a CQC king, but it is harder to master then the Lynx, so I don´t complain about it.
After getting BR-100 you start playing with other factions just to discovery how bad are your faction weapons. Even the guass saw is so fucking good that since I started playing with the NC I can´t use the tmg-50 anymore.