SOE Changes Premium Plan [Updates from Smed]

[Ghoest9]

link doesnt work follow from log in screen

Instead of getting 500 free SOE cash each month they will instead let us have 1 free item worth 2000 SOE each month.


This is NOT an improvement, this is not a good deal for the majority of customers - its just a way to give us less station cash than we originally signed up for.

I was happy to be paying my monthly fee to support the game - but this is just greed on SOEs part. Can we get out money back if we are in the middle of a 6 month or yearly sub?

EDIT:

There have been several updates since initial posting:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=952985

And finally a change similar to the original:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=952999

[almalino]

Instead 500 in cash you get an item of your choice that cost 2000 (500x4) in cash? Do I get this right?

[Redshift]

Instead 500 in cash you get an item of your choice that cost 2000 (500x4) in cash? Do I get this right?

And what if you want to buy something that costs 125? you know like the sales....

[JesNC]

And what if you want to buy something that costs 125? you know like the sales....

Then grab some SC ;)


For me, this change feels great. No more pitiful amounts of SC on some weird recurring membership model, just simply grab whatever you want from the shop once a month.

[Redshift]

Well except it's not, because you're not allowed to get player made stuff, so that's 90% of the new stuff, you can bet they won't let you buy the gold/black weapons, so the 2000 is a bit of a smokescreen, you'll be spending 1000 max most of the time.

As mentioned before it also pretty much invalidates your membership sale. The only people this will be good for is people that dump loads into SC anyway, and those people have more money than sense so it'll mean little to them.

If you're happy with it then that's great, but don't be under any illusion that this is an improvement designed to enhance players gameplay experience, it's a straight up money grab by SOE.

[pungentstentch]

Then, what's the catch right now to be a member at that price? It wasn't very generous before. And I just paid my membership again....

Enviado desde mi GT-N7000 mediante Tapatalk

[Redshift]

The problem with membership is it scales backwards with the time you have it for, i've had it long enough to unlock pretty much all i want, once this change goes through the only useful bit of it for me will be the resource bonus. I bought a years worth about 11 months ago, i'm not sure it'll be worth a resub now.

[Eggy]

Then grab some SC ;)


For me, this change feels great. No more pitiful amounts of SC on some weird recurring membership model, just simply grab whatever you want from the shop once a month.

Except for the part that player studio items and bundles, and "some" items will be excluded.
"Free To Play, Your Way" means that all I spend my SC on is cosmetics. In the last few months, most of these haved been player studio.

Also its a use it or loose it deal, once a month. So Im going to end up with tonnes of stuff I never use.

What about saving the current 500 SC for a few months so you can buy a 1000 SC item.

I literaly just re subbed for 6 months, there was no indication this was going to happen and for me the deal is no longer worth it.

As a long term player who allready has all the guns they want, and I am sat on certs I dont use there are zero reasons to sub.

Resources are never a problem if you play sensibly.
Queue priority is rarely an issue with the ever decreasing player numbers.
Now you cant choose to spend MY Station Cash on what you want.

The sub price needs to be reduced by 50%.
It should include acces to member sales, resource boost (when we get a new resource system) and queue priority. Thats it.

[Sturmhardt]

I guess you have the right to terminate your membership right away due to these changes. Like with all contracts, if one party changes something withing that contract, the other party immediately gets the right to terminate the contract. So if you suddenly feel like membership under the new conditions is not the right thing for you, you can write an Email saying exactly that to SOE support and hopefully quit.

[Dodgy Commando]

Glad I cancelled my membership just before this change. I'd much rather have the option to spend my SC how I want on the entire store than this.

Good for newer players I suppose (for a time).

[HereticusXZ]

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/customer-service-announcement-premium-membership.166053/

We regularly evaluate our offerings at SOE to ensure we are consistently delivering great games and products, while also offering exceptional value to our players. Given that we just started a new year it seemed like the perfect time to add more value!

The week of February 3rd, 2014 we will be making a very important change to the Premium Membership level in PlanetSide 2. The current benefit of receiving 500 Station Cash (SC) monthly will be replaced with a new program that allows you to select one single item valued up to 2000 SC each month. Nearly all items within the games’ Marketplace will be available for this selection. Players Studio, bundles and additional exclusions may apply. This new benefit must be claimed each month that you are a member as it will not carry over to subsequent months.

We appreciate our customers, especially our valued members, and therefore are excited to bring you this additional value.

Thank you for your continued support and we look forward to seeing you in game soon.

Best,

Sony Online Entertainment

[HereticusXZ]

At this point only the Player Studio stuff has been worth my attention, if I can't buy that then what good is this subscription stuff?

Increased XP and by proxy of that increased Resource gain and You get to cut in line during a Que....

Well the XP can be gained with cheaper Boosts and the Resources are going away with the Resource Revamp system that's in the works...

So what good is subscribing? Dodging ques?

[synkrotron]

I must admit that I'm a bit disappointed with this change. In any other business, contracts cannot be changed like this.

I don't want to cancel because I want my 48 certs per day. And I would rather have had a constant 500SC per month and then spend that as I see fit.

Anyway... will just have to see how this pans out...

[DirtyBird]

I reckon subs overall have probably tanked and this is to try and draw in some of those new players to purchase a sub.
I see the greatest benefit of this new plan being for new players.

The 500SC was good to save up for when something decent was released or on sale.
With certs aplenty you dont waste SC on weapons.

The only other reason I have a membership is the resource bonus.
I'm not looking forward to the day they "revamp" resources and make all those banked boosts useless.

[capiqu]

I have debated if I should state here that I will not resubscribe. I do not want to sound negative about the game or Soe. However I also feel that if nothing is said, than the game may continue in a direction that will make more and more players dissatisfied.
I have kept a full continues subscription of Planetside and Planetside2 since 2003. However quite frankly I am tired of fighting over and over on Indar. Reason being that Esamir and Amerish do not have as big populations. I have been waiting for intercontinental play but it's been over a year and nothing. Hell not even the roadmap is active anymore.
I know they said that the Road Map will come back up shortly. I hope that is true because many players are losing interest. Do not take your loyal customers for granted. Anyway you guys are business people you know what needs to be done.

[Selerox]

I get the feeling a lot of people will cancel subscriptions because of this. SOE has managed to turn their playerbase against them again.

God knows who's running the show...

[Hamma]

I changed the title of the thread a little so it has a bit less negative commentary. Posted as news as well.

When they make changes like this it's hard to figure out where their brains are, they have to know changes like this are going to cause a backlash. I can't imagine they were losing too much SC from the membership plans.

[GeoGnome]

This... This makes my head hurt.

Obviously this comes from higher up, because this is a company wide change, that said... why... in the HELL, is SOE Doing this.

Did SOE steal pirate treasure or something, because everytime they get to a stable point, something mind numbingly idiotic happens.

[AuntLou]

I'm BR 100 and don't really need anything else in Planetside 2. I planned on spending that extra 500 SC on Everquest Next. If this is really what they are doing I will be unsubbing.

[doomocrat]

I do not like this change at all and will be cancelling premium immediately. This seems like a situation where an item they want you to add additional SC for will be made a non-Member item. I might not cancel if I can be assured this will not be the case.

Edit: I really do feel like SOE feels PC players can leave at any time because they'll rake in so much more on PS4 launch.

[Tatwi]

From what I have read over the years, Playstation Network currency runs out over time if it isn't used, where as SOE Station Cash does not. SOE has "down sized" probably as much as it can to save money and with EQN on the way, they probably need to maximize their income to stay in business. Locking down Station Cash to direct currency exchange makes sense for SOE/Sony in the long run, because it will be easier for them to track and project their income. This appears to be a company wide restructuring of Station Cash.

While I do agree that changing the terms of the PS2 membership further devalues the already worthless membership, I do understand why SOE made the change.

Smed, you need to make a recurring membership PS2 genuinely worthwhile, by providing valuable services to your customers, such as 24/7 admins, fast/accurate customer service, "free" character services (name/server/gender changes), access to SOE created SC/Cert items while subscribed, and member-only servers (one per region). This is stuff people who want to be members would actually pay for, because they would substantially improve their quality of life.

People don't mind paying for services that are worth their money (such as cell phones with data plans, cable/satellite TV, Internet, insurance, Interac fees, shipping). Simply granting access to a game no longer holds value for most gamers. It did ten years ago, but not today. People will pay for "stuff" a la carte in a free2play model and they (rightly) expect extra services (be that exclusive content or services like what I described above) when they purchase a membership.

[Mastachief]

Sounds like they are giving with one hand and taking with another to me. I will be canceling my subscription due to the anniversary bundle farce and the terrible customer service soe provided around this issue, i feel this only strengthens my resolve. My 500 sc was often used to buy little things here and there as i have pretty much everything else when it comes to equipment. With the current direction, lack of new content and frequent failures i do ponder just how you will retain membership and marketplace income.

In the current decline in revenues i think hossin and the battle islands are like to be the only new maps we ever see before this cash cow is put out to pasture. The only glimmer of hope is the PS4 but even here you need to take that chunk of income and get the momentum back otherwise you end up back in the same position once those players reach a certain point (likely 6-9months with console kiddies) Avid players want to support the game but they don't want to waste their money.

[KesTro]

It likely does hurt a lot of subscribers but I always thought it was weird for having a subscription in one SOE game you got a currency for ALL their games. What with Everquest NEXT coming out they probably want to stop people from hoarding all their SC to capitalize on as much sales as they can get when it releases. At least that's where my head is when I think why they might do a change like this.

[Mastachief]

I don't think their would be half the up roar over this and the lack of SC sales if it was not for the fact that the PS2 micro transaction are anything but micro.

They needs to look at their prices and pretty much half the lot of it.

[YourFutureEx]

How f'ing convenient that they do this when all the hardcore PS2 people's yearly subscriptions re-up!! What the hell is worth 2000 SC in there anyway? Most of the highest costing things are about 1000, there is nothing in there anywhere near 2000!! What a crock of sh1t!

[wicky]

Annoyingly I have just paid for a 6 month sub on the understanding I would receive my 500sc per month... if I had known I probably wouldn't have resubbed.

I am not usually one for complaining but this change will result in me cancelling my subscription.

[BlaxicanX]

I'm glad I pay the service month-to-month instead of via the multi-month subscription.

This'll probably be my last month with the service then.

[Kail]

Personally I read the "Players Studio, bundles and additional exclusions may apply" as that, for example, brand-new items might not qualify for a time (like for a month or two), and not that studio / bundle items are forever exempt from the membership bonus.

As far as being a worse deal, realistically that depends on your buying style. Right now the monthly SC promote waiting for the sales, cause 500 can buy you a single camo or one of the daily deals (and a few of the cheaper weapons). Most weapons are 700 and a lot of the fancy cosmetics are 1k, not to mention the styled weapons (ie, gold/black variants) being up there.

Will it prevent you from banking up SC for use during holiday specials? Yeah, but honestly I think that's what they're trying to fix. As long as you use it on an item over 500SC, which is super easy to do, the holidays are the only major problem.

[J Baley]

This just makes my head hurt. I use SC to buy boosts. If it means I will ONLY be able to get 1 (one) 7 day boost a month (if that is in fact, included in this offer), I might as well cancel my membership. There is nothing there I want, that I do not already have.

Sad. :(

[Crator]

Most weapons you can buy with SC are worth around 700SC right? So that's already better then 500SC you got with the old sub plan. This of course will benefit the new player who doesn't have as many weapons as the existing players.

It's possible they might charge more for newer weapons/items they release as well. Therefore bringing the 2000SC you can spend with the sub closer to it's full value potential.

[Ghoest9]

Most weapons you can buy with SC are worth around 700SC right? So that's already better then 500SC you got with the old sub plan. This of course will benefit the new player who doesn't have as many weapons as the existing players.

It's possible they might charge more for newer weapons/items they release as well. Therefore bringing the 2000SC you can spend with the sub closer to it's full value potential.

I bought many weapons over the year - I think i have bought everyone on salee - ie less than 500 station cash.
This is a straight up bad deal for many people.

[Hyncharas]

Basically the purpose is to force people to invest in an experience boost, but also pay separate batches for Station Cash they can use on items in the store. A better deal would be to offer either 1,000 SC or select an item worth 2,000 SC every month, but I doubt SOE management cares about players if they're doing this...

With this new plan I might as well not renew my subscription at all - not if personal choice is being curtailed, in favour of a free-to-play system that obviously isn't paying its way as much as they intended.

[typhaon]

I don't think their would be half the up roar over this and the lack of SC sales if it was not for the fact that the PS2 micro transaction are anything but micro.

They needs to look at their prices and pretty much half the lot of it.

That's a BIG issue.

Changing this right after the subs renew for those that have been in it since the start... bad move.

If this is the way they want to go, fine. But - terms should apply moving forward... not to subs that already renewed.

* I totally quoted the wrong post.

[Neurotoxin]

Need more 2000 SC items. It doesn't do much for ya if everything is priced under 1k except gold trim pistols.

[Boildown]

I had bought a year long sub. I let it end and not renew ~ a month ago. The 500 Station Cash per month was a good hedge against Planetside 2 sucking. Because even if PS2 sucked, I'd be able to use that Station Cash in another game. This deal? It increases the value for Sony, not the customers, unless you're brand new to Planetside 2. They should let us pick which deal we want, they're basically telling their most established players to go Free to Play, which is idiotic.

[Dougnifico]

Ya, I'm going to guess this is a great way for them to finally pawn off the stupid hood ornaments and crap. "Here, pick between 3 things that absolutely no one wants!"

[Boildown]

Also this seems to be asking for a Class Action Lawsuit. Because they are changing the terms of a subscription after you've bought it, and they famously have No Refunds. I normally just ignore those things, but I'd sign on to this one to punish Sony. Better they learn now than to be trying this stuff when EQ Next is out.

[Grendalsh]

Let's examine the economics of this decision.
A membership costs between $15 and $10/mo depending on the package. Let's go with an average of $12/mo (6 month sub) as a baseline.
A players subs for 6 months, paying $72 upfront. Previously this would net a total of 6x500sc = 3,000sc ($30), parsed out 500sc/mo.
This was still income for SOE, as payment for shop items went to SOE. Now it is possible for players to spend that 3K SC on Player Studio items, 40% of which goes to the artist. Assuming a player saves their monthly 500SC and spends it all on Player studio items, that means of the $30 worth of SC, up to $12 can go to Player Studio artists, out of a $72 sub; roughly 17% of revenue from subs. From a f2p business model perspective, subs are supposed to be a reliable small chunk of income and microtransactions are a larger but unreliable pool. This places a rather large amount of volatility on what should be a reliable revenue source. That is, while SOE takes in your $72 sub, it can't count on holding all of it, which defeats the business model of the sub.

By giving players a 2000SC purchase per month, excluding Player studio items, SOE keeps your sub money in-house, pushing the payout for Studio items squarely onto the micropurchase side of the equation. In theory, this should be a win-win... We get more purchasing power, SOE stops losing core income to studio payouts.

So let's examine the other side of this equation, Player usage. With 500SC a Player can choose to purchase camo, a weapon, or a bundle, or even save for a sale or a Player studio item. With one 2000SC purchase per month, players are more likely to want to get the full value of this single purchase and save it for a big ticket item. However, most big ticket items are excluded (Player studio, bundles, etc). This means the value of the 2000SC is limited to whatever items it can actually be spent on, and will likely NOT be spent on any item below 750SC; why waste a potential, if virtual, 2000SC on a 150SC camo purchase? Effectively this precludes subscribers from spending their shop allowance on smaller ticket items. They will then likely be less willing to pick up these smaller ticket items as a micropurchase, as any SC they do spend will likely go towards items that they can't spend their monthly purchase allowance on - Player studio and bundles.

The real issue is that the allowance is limited to a single purchase, not the amount of the purchase. If the new plan allowed us to purchase UP TO 1000SC worth of items per month, even with exclusions, it would be more palatable. Instead of choosing a single item to try to get full value from our allowance, we could select several lower cost items we desired and still get our full value.

The SC allowance was a bonus on top of the passive cred, xp and resource boost, and queue priority. With the pending resource changes and the loss of purchasing flexibility, the sub is now realistically only worth the passive cred, xp boost, and queue priority.

For a BR1 Player, this means being able to unlock a new large ticket weapon each month and boosted leveling.
For a BR100 Player, the only value of subbing is the queue priority.

A BR1 Player is more likely to spend SC on unlocking gear, while a BR100 is more likely to buy cosmetics.

The net effect is that subs are now more valuable to new players than to top tier players.
SOE is apparently trying to flip the model to support subs from new players and micropurchases from capped players.

The problem with this model in a f2p game is that new players are less likely to sign up for a sub until they're committed to the game, while capped players are more likely to sub to continue getting value from their invested time. Which means as the game ages and players hit cap, they'll be dropping their subs, negatively impacting the game's long term revenue.

As an experiment on how to increase subs among lower level players, I find this intriguing. However, SOE needs to do something about the value of a sub to higher level players, as that's where long-term revenue resides.

[OCNSethy]

What is going on with you SOE? Every time we get to a good place with the game, you throw something stupid into the mix and we all get FU.

2000 SC eh? to spend on ONE item eh? How generous. Will I get change from this one purchase? Naw, didn't think so...

[WarbirdTD]

This is what happens when you go without content for 6 months and start hemorrhaging memberships. You can't do that, unless your game is in GREAT shape, and Planetside 2 certainly was/is not. Optimization is not a content patch... it's something to do before the game launches. It's arguable as to whether the continent redesigns are even "content," but let's see what's done with Amerish and how many bases are placed down inside bowls for vehicles to shoot at.

I'm a longtime Planetside 1 player and subscriber (paid for about 6 years), but I'm already done paying for Planetside 2 until it's proven to me that this development team can actually deliver. So far, it's not looking good.

[Rolfski]

Not being able any more to save up for that one cool helmet that is now excluded from the new premium program, doesn't feel like an improved customer experience to me.

Not to mention that the daily (membership) deals have now become completely irrelevant to most subscribers.

[camycamera]

not premium here, but wouldn't it be easier to make it optional, to be able to choose between the two?


best of both worlds for people who want or dont want it. if i were to choose.... hell, idk. i was thinking of subbing in the future because of the500sc thing, but heh.

also there is this:
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/customer-service-announcement-premium-membership.166053/page-21

...Right now there is a lot of concern in this thread about restrictions and future pricing. The ball is now in our court, to make sure we do this right. That being said 500sc monthly was a significantly greater inflationary pressure on us than the new offer. I can't say prices will never increase, inflation hits us all, but this will not be the reason.

[DirtyBird]

Be careful if and when you decide to cancel your current sub.
SOE will have locked down everything in the T&C's to cover their ass.
Dont rush in before reading what will happen to any outstanding benefits of that sub.


And drop Smedly a polite message of your approval or disapproval, this is a decision he ticks off not the devs.
[email protected]

[Ghoest9]

I called SOE, talked to a real person and got a refund for the unused part of my most recent premium subscription.(they canceled my premium service and refunded me 4 of the 6 months I had prepaid.)

They said refunds are against their policy but because this was a unique situation they would do it.


I dont like that they changed the plan - but I thought the refund was fair.

[Ruffdog]

:stupid:

This is like when Arsenal wanted their fans to renew their season tickets a month before they sold Fabregas to Barcelona. Except that was funny. This is not. I'm only glad I did not renew my sub.

I worry for this game.

[Boildown]

I called SOE, talked to a real person and got a refund for the unused part of my most recent premium subscription.(they canceled my premium service and refunded me 4 of the 6 months I had prepaid.)

They said refunds are against their policy but because this was a unique situation they would do it.


I dont like that they changed the plan - but I thought the refund was fair.

This is amazing. I'm actually impressed. If you don't like the new deal, I would get it cancelled and get your refund before they tell their operators to stop doing them.

In reality they should just give current subscribers a choice, and if they want maximum goodwill, grandfather them in as long as the subscription is kept active. But goodwill is not something bottom line lookers are interested in.

When is Star Citizen Dogfighting Module again?

[Timithos]

This is not how I understood the change. From what I read, it seemed like you had a choice. A) You receive 500 SC per month, B) If you make a 600-2000 SC purchase, you forego your 500 SC for that month. (Also, these big, single item purchases don't accumulate.)

Is that wrong? Or is everyone really misunderstanding what they are doing?

Edit: Ok, I read it again. It says the 500 SC program is being "replaced" by an up to 2000 SC one-time monthly item purchase. Ok so everyone is right to be up in arms.

As soon as I don't find a 1200-2000 item I think I need, I'm canceling my membership.

[Timithos]

This is not how I understood the change. From what I read, it seemed like you had a choice. A) You receive 500 SC per month, B) If you make a 600-2000 SC purchase, you forego your 500 SC for that month. (Also, these big, single item purchases don't accumulate.)

Is that wrong? Or is everyone really misunderstanding what they are doing?

Edit: Ok, I read it again. It says the 500 SC program is being "replaced" by an up to 2000 SC one-time monthly item purchase. Ok so everyone is right to be up in arms.

As soon as I don't find a 1200-2000 item I think I need, I'm canceling my membership.

I actually don't understand why they don't enhance their membership by the choices I thought they gave above.

[Jaybonaut]

So here's something interesting that I'm able to discuss:

Prior to the FNO this last Friday, the panelists got to briefly discuss this new announcement with Luperza. Naturally, we all hate it. It is SOE-wide and the PS2 team had absolutely nothing to do with it.

According to her, people would open their wallets during double/triple SC and sit on it and keep it forever. Here's the interesting part: the individual dev teams for the SOE games get nothing until you spend your SC on in-game stuff. Sure, SOE gets paid but the work that the devs put in to each SOE game (including the PS2 team) don't get compensated for unless you decide to spend it on their game. SOE doesn't know who to give it to unless you do.

[DirtyBird]

That's interesting since the majority of new items have been player created recently.
Does that mean by making player made purchases we are also effectively restricting compensation as well?
Is the ultimate goal to have all items player created and just have someone like TRay oversee it while most of the others in that department are given the flick.

[Hobnail]

2000SC items? The only thing that approaches that are the bundle packs which are of no use to veterans.

This would be great for new accounts (say on PS4) to get your Lib/ESF/Harasser fully armed once every month.

[Carbon Copied]

So here's something interesting that I'm able to discuss:

Prior to the FNO this last Friday, the panelists got to briefly discuss this new announcement with Luperza. Naturally, we all hate it. It is SOE-wide and the PS2 team had absolutely nothing to do with it.

According to her, people would open their wallets during double/triple SC and sit on it and keep it forever. Here's the interesting part: the individual dev teams for the SOE games get nothing until you spend your SC on in-game stuff. Sure, SOE gets paid but the work that the devs put in to each SOE game (including the PS2 team) don't get compensated for unless you decide to spend it on their game. SOE doesn't know who to give it to unless you do.

So what does this have to do with buying a subscription to specific SOE game? Sure SC is across the board in any of the SOE titles but if I sub to PS2 then I'm going to be playing PS2 (arguably minus "a potential" 500SC recurring) - and "bought into the concept" for however long.

Are they saying now that the subscription benefits are the "free" part (i.e you're not actually buying into the game) and subs were just receiving (paying) a bog standard convenient auto recurring SC amount?

The statement from Luperza is true enough for those that wouldn't sub and just buy the SC but does little to answer the actual question and clearly doesn't change anything for the SC bought outside of memberships; people can still sit on their SC they pick up in sales or normal transactions whether they have a sub or not.

[Sturmhardt]

According to her, people would open their wallets during double/triple SC and sit on it and keep it forever. Here's the interesting part: the individual dev teams for the SOE games get nothing until you spend your SC on in-game stuff. Sure, SOE gets paid but the work that the devs put in to each SOE game (including the PS2 team) don't get compensated for unless you decide to spend it on their game. SOE doesn't know who to give it to unless you do.

It is very hard to believe that SOE sits on a pile of cash from SC sales that is untouched for months until the SC is used. But the developers probably get a bonus based on the SC used in their games so they have an interest in that.

[Calista]

I guess next is a "use it or lose it" policy for SC.

[Rolfski]

My main gripes:


Daily deals become irrelevant overnight.
You cannot save up credits.
You can only get 1 item a month.
Lot's of fancy stuff (bundles/Player Studio gear) is excluded from members.
Members getting pushed to buy additional Station Cash feels like an insult if you're already paying 120 dollars a year for this game.
There's not much expensive stuff to buy out there that justifies this new deal as an improvement.


SOE is trying to sell this as adding greater value to their customers, but unfortunately for many customers, especially the loyal ones, this will turn out the other way around.


This really makes me doubt if I should renew my subscription. The more loyal your customers are, the better you should reward them, not the other way around.

[SgtMAD]

I wonder how much money the player-designed items are generating and is it cutting into SOE's bottom line?


SOE was always shooting themselves in the ass during the first few years of PS and it seems they are going to stick to that plan for PS2.


the SONY mothership is in trouble also,they were rumors that the movie company was for sale,it would explain why they have been squeezing everything that is generating cash flow

[Baneblade]

It likely does hurt a lot of subscribers but I always thought it was weird for having a subscription in one SOE game you got a currency for ALL their games. What with Everquest NEXT coming out they probably want to stop people from hoarding all their SC to capitalize on as much sales as they can get when it releases. At least that's where my head is when I think why they might do a change like this.

Their new SC directive is to limit cross game SC as much as possible. Which is why the SC sales are gone. This move sucks, but it shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.

[Tatwi]

Their new SC directive is to limit cross game SC as much as possible. Which is why the SC sales are gone. This move sucks, but it shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.
Truly!

I always thought they were crazy with their sales and freebies, especially the 1500 Point Wal-mart cards with the free 500 Points that they would then allow people to triple - $60 of SC for $15? Hell yeah!

SOE should have gotten this in order years ago. I bet if they had the guns would have been real micro transactions, $2 or $3 rather than $7.

[typhaon]

Their new SC directive is to limit cross game SC as much as possible. Which is why the SC sales are gone. This move sucks, but it shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.

The way SOE is implementing it, though.. is making PS2 subs less valuable to PS2 players. The benefits were already sketchy (especially, the longer you were a member) - but now they seem almost nil.

[Mustakrakish]

If unused unlocks rolled over from month to month I might be okay with it, but that would still be a big step down from the current membership benefits. As-is, I don't think I'll be renewing my membership.

If SOE's revenue from PS2 is dropping, it's because the vast majority of depot items have been Player Studio items and they have to share 40% of the sales with the creator. They might start making more money if they, I dunno, started releasing new content again?

When was the last time they added a helmet or camo that wasn't from Player Studio?
When was the last time they added a weapon that wasn't a Nanite Systems novelty pistol?
When are we getting the long-awaited Recert Item?

[AThreatToYou]

When is Star Citizen Dogfighting Module again?


January 6th, 2015

[Jaybonaut]

That's interesting since the majority of new items have been player created recently.
Does that mean by making player made purchases we are also effectively restricting compensation as well?
Is the ultimate goal to have all items player created and just have someone like TRay oversee it while most of the others in that department are given the flick.

No. It doesn't change how that works anyway.

[Jaybonaut]

So what does this have to do with buying a subscription to specific SOE game? Sure SC is across the board in any of the SOE titles but if I sub to PS2 then I'm going to be playing PS2 (arguably minus "a potential" 500SC recurring) - and "bought into the concept" for however long.

Are they saying now that the subscription benefits are the "free" part (i.e you're not actually buying into the game) and subs were just receiving (paying) a bog standard convenient auto recurring SC amount?

The statement from Luperza is true enough for those that wouldn't sub and just buy the SC but does little to answer the actual question and clearly doesn't change anything for the SC bought outside of memberships; people can still sit on their SC they pick up in sales or normal transactions whether they have a sub or not.

People were sitting on SC with their sub increments as well so it makes no diff. There are plenty that play multiple SOE games and have SC stacked on their account.

[Jaybonaut]

It is very hard to believe that SOE sits on a pile of cash from SC sales that is untouched for months until the SC is used. But the developers probably get a bonus based on the SC used in their games so they have an interest in that.

We were all shocked. I got it straight from Maggie herself. I believe it and if you think about it, it makes sense and isn't hard to believe at all.

[Carbon Copied]

People were sitting on SC with their sub increments as well so it makes no diff. There are plenty that play multiple SOE games and have SC stacked on their account.

I get that and wasn't arguing that point but what I'm trying to say is that if I pay £8.99 for a month sub £4.99 of that goes to the devs straight away, the remaining potential £4.00 doesn't because they argue you might spend it elsewhere (alter for your country's currency conversion etc.) - so they still get paid don't they. Even on a 12 month sub of £77.88 you receive (eventually) 6000SC to the store value of £45.00 so the devs still receive the remainder of that (with -/+ for taxes).

So although she can turn around and say "we don't get paid if you buy and sit on store SC" thats true enough this alteration won't change any player practices of sitting on SC or not - all it does is fuck over the players paying subs and force them with a time limit and restriction on what they're allowed to redeem their voucher with in PS2.

In a way it will work out "cheaper" and "better" to not sub and just get 500SC a month to spend it on or save what you please. Hilarious.

There are 2 ways to solve this:

1. They introduce the subscription value as a second game specific currency:


Purchasing store SC - over arching & works in all SOE games.
PS2 Subs receive 500 Nanites per month - same as SC but only works in PS2 and can be combined with store SC for purchases.
EQ2 subs receive 500 "Cyrstals" per month - same as SC but only works in EQ2 and can be combined with store SC for purchases.

So on and so forth - it's a "secondary SC" (just game specific to the game you're subbing in (just making currency titles up for example sake)).

2. They remove the SC element from the sub package and drop the price of it accordingly.

[Eggy]

I get that and wasn't arguing that point but what I'm trying to say is that if I pay £8.99 for a month sub £4.99 of that goes to the devs straight away, the remaining potential £4.00 doesn't because they argue you might spend it elsewhere (alter for your country's currency conversion etc.) - so they still get paid don't they. Even on a 12 month sub of £77.88 you receive (eventually) 6000SC to the store value of £45.00 so the devs still receive the remainder of that (with -/+ for taxes).

So although she can turn around and say "we don't get paid if you buy and sit on store SC" thats true enough this alteration won't change any player practices of sitting on SC or not - all it does is fuck over the players paying subs and force them with a time limit and restriction on what they're allowed to redeem their voucher with in PS2.

In a way it will work out "cheaper" and "better" to not sub and just get 500SC a month to spend it on or save what you please. Hilarious.

There are 2 ways to solve this:

1. They introduce the subscription value as a second game specific currency:


Purchasing store SC - over arching & works in all SOE games.
PS2 Subs receive 500 Nanites per month - same as SC but only works in PS2 and can be combined with store SC for purchases.
EQ2 subs receive 500 "Cyrstals" per month - same as SC but only works in EQ2 and can be combined with store SC for purchases.

So on and so forth - it's a "secondary SC" (just game specific to the game you're subbing in (just making currency titles up for example sake)).

2. They remove the SC element from the sub package and drop the price of it accordingly.
I "think" you have missed a crucial point.
In your first paragraph, you specified 6000SC as guaranteed income for SOE.
This is not the case.
If people sit on it and spend it on sale items, this is less income for SOE as you dont need to buy more SC. There model works by you buying a GUN for 1000SC and then needing to buy more SC for the next one. It doesnt work, when you buy the gun for 250SC and then wait with your 750 SC for the next sale.

If people spend it on player studio 40% of its value goes to a random person.
Again SOE loose out. This is the main reason why the sub was altered as they were loosing Sub money to player studio.

None of the suggestions you made add cash into SOEs pockets or even let them keep the cash they have. They are doing this by restricting what you can spend your subscription benefits on AND also by making it "use it or loose it, with no change" so you spend more on SC.

The 2ndry currency idea has some merit but again, for SOE to make/keep your cash they would need to restict the purchases.

The last solution (reduced subs) makes the most sense but would also have a potential negative impact. There are dimininishing returns on queue priority. If the subs are reduced, more people will subscribe and you just end up sat in a queue full of subscribers instead of a queue full of freeloaders.
OR, you realise that a reduced sub has little value. Dont sub and also possibly dont buy SC so SOE loose out again.


Yes. If you dont mind sitting in a queue to change conts. It will make more financial sense. To not sub and just buy some SC now and again. In fact you will probably save money as you would stuggle to find 8.99 worth of stuff every month that you "want" when your faced with the prospect of paying full price for it. As a seasoned player most of your purchases will be cosmetics, a high chance of player studio items and again SOE loose out by 40%.

[Ghoest9]

This is the inherent problem and stupidity of creating a proprietary currency that doesnt exist in solely in a virtual world be can be purchased with real cash.


Its a total disaster if you have parallel development projects with separate budgets.


Imagine if CCP(makes of EVE) released a new game and allowed you to pay for it with Plex.
EVE has a gianormous amount of dead money in Plex currently - but most of it will remeain dead money as long as its stuck in EVE. If they allowed you to move it out of EVE then either EVE would start running at huge loss or the the new game would start out in such a hole that it could never climb out.

The most elegant book keeping solution is to set the money aside and drqw interest - but thats not an attractive option if your company or division is in need of profit.

[Carbon Copied]

-snip-

(Snipped just so I'm not quoting the entire post!)

The 6000SC example I never said was guaranteed: on a 12 month sub you get 6000SC (if you'd bought in on the site it would set you back £45) so from a year's sub (minus the SC "value") is £37.88 (again I'm not accounting for taxes/currency exchange here) that will go to the PS2 side of development. At least that's what I would have thought would happen... the entirety of that £77.88 doesn't sit in limbo until you've spent the equivalent to 6000SC because the store to sub values don't equate.
The same as on a smaller scale of a one month membership; the entire £8.99 isn't in limbo until you spend your granted 500sc because £4.99 of that is invested in that game sub and not SC.
(Correct me if my understanding is wrong here?)

I'm not convinced by the Player Studio reasoning at all in it's entirety (no matter how much of a factor it is); Everquest 2/Freerealms has had the studio since Dec 12(?) already so this can't be something that's "suddenly become apparent" to the accountants at SOE HQ. Granted SOE lose their 40% to the author but 60% is still divied between SOE/Devs/tax man etc. and that only accounts for studio generated items.

I think this global change is largely influenced as some upcoming model EQ Next is going to built around..

(Edit: excuse any thick sounding reasoning in the above!)

[Badjuju]

Since I'm only interested in cosmetics, if player studio items are included, then I love the change. If not, I'm canceling my sub.

[BlaxicanX]

How do you unsub?

I don't know if I'm retarded or if the game's UI is just doing everything it can to try to dissuade me from doing so.

[Emperor Newt]

Use the SOE account website.

Also keep in mind that unsubing now, due to the completely retarded system subscriptions are set up, you are loosing some of the benefits if you unsub to early.

[SgtMAD]

the plan is to piss off all of us subscribers,that way when we all kill our subs SOE can use that fact to just port the game to the PS4 and merge the US servers down to the old "Markov-Emerald" model and let the new PS4 players pay for this bullshit sub they are offering now.

this may not be the main reason for the change system-wide but it sure is a nice perk

[SgtMAD]

Use the SOE account website.

Also keep in mind that unsubing now, due to the completely retarded system subscriptions are set up, you are loosing some of the benefits if you unsub to early.

yea,wait until it's the last day on your sub before cancelling

[DirtyBird]

I'd like to see other membership options, you can keep the Premium option but why not offer a standard membership.

How about putting something together for $8 p/m and dont include the SC, Priority login, Additional Character Slots and Early access?

Mind you I can already foresee them stitching us up with a clause saying "new members only".

[Ghoest9]

Use the SOE account website.

Also keep in mind that unsubing now, due to the completely retarded system subscriptions are set up, you are loosing some of the benefits if you unsub to early.

try reading the whole thread - I made a post about how to do this.

[Illtempered]

Well I was thinking about renewing my sub, partly because I thought the daily member sales would last longer than the holidays. With this change, there is literally no reason for me to renew. I have all the weapons and certs one could possibly want. The SC would have been mostly for cosmetic items. I'm hardly ever low on resources. In fact, it may be a little more fun, now that I'll actually have to manage the resources.

Maybe when some new content comes out :|

[Hamma]

Update via Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1ukdxb/regarding_the_changes_to_our_subscription_plans/
Hello everyone,

I hope you all had a Happy New Year! we're here back working hard to make cool stuff.
I wanted to give a little more insight into our thinking regarding the changes to the upcoming subscription plan.
I have been personally reading every post I can find about it and I understand there is a lot of FUD out there around it. So let me clear some things up and let you in on some of our thinking process.

Goals
The goals of our plan are very simple. Let players buy anything they want up to 2000 SC. It's fair to say that there aren't a lot of high priced items in the Planetside 2 shop, but that's kind of a good thing too. It's just when you look at it from the perspective of someone who's plan is changing they are right to ask "why is this good for me?".

We are discussing the feedback we've been getting and we are making some decisions regarding this today. Particularly around Player Studio items (yeah that was a bad idea) and we're talking about bundles as well. I promise that we are listening.

Why did we make this change? There were a few reasons really. First and foremost we wanted to let players get some of the larger items on the marketplace. People complain the other way on this all the time - they complain that the 500SC isn't enough for them to buy enough stuff. So we thought this would be a positive change.

Second - it helps us deal with some internal issues regarding accrual of balances of SC for people who aren't playing or spending. There are a lot of people who play and have SC in their wallets and don't spend it ever.. this accrues over time and it's a problem. Before the jaded among you cry out that this is really the most important reason - please don't judge just yet. It's actually not but I don't want to hide the fact that it's a part of it.

Third - we have a problem with a disparity between our console titles (which can't use Station Cash) and our PC Games. We can't do the same kind of promotions as easily on the PS3 and PS4. We're a lot more limited because we can't use Station Cash on there. So when we have a 3x sale on SC we have to do something different for our console titles. It's a pain in the neck to deal with this.

Forth - And this is very important -

We are considering (and are likely going to move forward with) a plan that means if you subscribe to one of our games you are a subscriber to all our games (this applies to PC titles only btw).. all for the current $14.99 a month. That's a benefit most companies simply can't offer because they don't have our portfolio of games. The goal would be to let you pick an item in each game you play. Some of you might say "well who cares..I only play Planetside 2. How is that a benefit to me?" My answer is simple - we've got a great lineup of games, some of which aren't announced yet that cater to a lot of players. We have EQN and EQNL coming along with other..... games... that PS2 players might just like :)

I will do my best to keep up with this thread and answer questions as much as I can (a bit AMA style).

Smed

[Hamma]

Smed also mentioned that PlanetSide2 was a 25 million dollar investment:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1ukdxb/regarding_the_changes_to_our_subscription_plans/cej0h0m?context=3

[OCNSethy]

So now, they are looking seriously at including Player Studio stuff... good move.

TBH, I haven't used SC for awhile because most of the stuff I want is Cert purchase only... weapon attachments etc.

I really hope this works out... just have to wait and see, I guess.

[Tatwi]

Access to other games is not a benefit to a person who has no interest in those games. I have coffee in the house at all times, but my wife has yet to make herself a cup after nine years. She simply doesn't like coffee, ya know.

OK Smed, sure I bought over $100 worth of Station Cash since SWG shut down and I didn't use all of it until the other day. So what, buddy. I spent $60 on Guild Wars 2 and $10 on Torchlight 2 and I can play those every day for the next 10,000 years without spending another dime on them. Don't blame the end user for making use of the system you designed.

I clearly stated in beta what I expected from a subscription to Planetside 2. Those expectations weren't met, so I didn't bother subscribing. I did buy Alpha Squad and SC though.

However, had PS2 been a subscription-only game, I would have purchased a sub to be able to play the game.

The current subscription benefits aren't worth it, because I can just buy some SC to get the "stuff" I'd like. If that's not good enough for SOE, then that's SOE's problem, not mine. Either make the subscription worth the money or close the Free2Play model and make the game subscription-only. Until, I'm content to be one of those evil people who buy SC and sit on it.

That's my feedback.

Ps. Thought I should mention that all of the weapons I have unlocked on my two characters were purchased with SC rather than certs. I did triple $20 for 6,000 SC once, but I used it on all xpacs for EQII and DCUO (games I haven't played in almost two years) years ago. Other than that I've paid full price, if memory serves me correctly. Furthermore, I certainly did not always wait for items in PS2 to come on sale. Just a week ago I bought a camo at full price when I knew full well it would be on sale a few days later. Keeping SC around isn't about being cheap, it's about "free to play, your way", which I had previously assumed was a genuine sentiment from SOE.

[Calista]

Smed also mentioned that PlanetSide2 was a 25 million dollar investment:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1ukdxb/regarding_the_changes_to_our_subscription_plans/cej0h0m?context=3

Wonder if he is including Forgelight development cost in with that. Probably is and of course that will be a shared expense going forward so that 25 isn't really 25 but a substantial cost nonetheless.

[Jaybonaut]

Basically Smed just confirmed what I stated that Maggie told us before the panel for Friday Night Ops.

...also, $25 mil is actually cheap for a AAA title if history serves.

I might be interested in giving DCUO another try if this automatically makes me subbed to that too.

[TheRagingGerbil]

update via reddit:

with other..... Games... That ps2 players might just like

planetside 3 confirmed!!

[Timealude]

planetside 3 confirmed!!

I hope not...heh other wise that means they have given up on planetside 2 :P

[Dragonskin]

I'm probably in the minority here since I do play MMORPGs and other games along with coming back to PS2 every once in awhile, but I like the new membership plan if it includes DCUO, EQN, EQNL and future games. More than likely I would play more of those and less buying other games which would save me money over time. Especially with BF4 and COD Ghosts turning out to be crap. I'm not looking forward to any more BF or COD games.. tired of being let down with those.

[OCNSethy]

A change of heart and business plan...

https://twitter.com/j_smedley/status/420387511504867328


Hi everyone,

Thanks for the feedback. We listened.

Here are the basics of our revised plan. Please note - we have not had the time to do estimates of the work involved, and also we're continuing to listen. so this isn't baked just yet. Do not expect that this is all going to happen immediately. We plain don't know yet. we're doing that meeting tmw.

1) We're lowering the price of All Access to $14.99 2) We're going to make it so every subscriber to all our PC games an all access member. Basically there will be one SOE membership for our PC games. Please note there are some minor restrictions around our kids titles (simply put - if you're a 12 year old who signed up for FR you won't have access to the adult games so we'll likely leave the lower priced kids offerings as separate subscriptions for under 12 for the same low prices). 3) We're keeping the 500 SC included with the subscription instead of going to the "pick an item" system. We heard you. You didn't like the change. The only change we are making is that we're now going to make you claim it monthly. You can still hoard it though :) I realize this is a bit of a pain but honestly it's the best compromise we could come up with that solves the problems I mentioned in the other thread. 4) we are going to be giving our members a 10% discount in our marketplaces. 5) European players - we have an idea on how to include you in this but we need to discuss with our partners.We have a pretty good idea on this though. give us a bit of time to suss this out. 6) Nothing is changing with Player Studio items - you'll still be able to buy them with your 500SC. 7) Console titles - you'll notice I only mentioned the PC titles. Our goal is to include the PS3 and PS4 games that we have, but I want to be up front and say that isn't a done deal.

In a nutshell that's where our head is at.

As always your feedback is welcomed. Please do us a big favor and carefully think about #3. Our goal is to give you more value in the subscription to make it more attractive and making it simpler in the process.

I really feel like we're making a good decision going this route. It makes things simpler and gives more value to our players.

Thanks

Smed
Feeling much better about this now :)

[DirtyBird]

I assume this All Access pass gives you the XP/Res bonuses and and the other extras in the premium membership as well?

[Climhazzard]

Update via Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1ukdxb/regarding_the_changes_to_our_subscription_plans/

We are considering (and are likely going to move forward with) a plan that means if you subscribe to one of our games you are a subscriber to all our games (this applies to PC titles only btw).. all for the current $14.99 a month.

That's kind of amazing.

Access to other games is not a benefit to a person who has no interest in those games. I have coffee in the house at all times, but my wife has yet to make herself a cup after nine years. She simply doesn't like coffee, ya know.

Do you also feel that you should pay less in taxes simply because you don't intend to read every book in your public library?

I assume this All Access pass gives you the XP/Res bonuses and and the other extras in the premium membership as well?

I'm not entirely sure, but that sounds like a safe assumption.

[mcargo]

I can confirm all-access does gives bennies. auraxium level bennies point of fact. not sure if this will change wil this however

[Crator]

Hmmm, All Access $14.99 per month? Correct? Not bad. Existing prices are


1 month plan $19.99/mo.
3 month plan $17.99/mo.
6 month plan $16.99/mo.
12 month plan $14.99/mo.


http://tagn.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/soe-all-access-what-does-19-99-a-month-get-you/

So I'm assuming they just are getting rid of the different month plans and going with a single plan for $14.99/mo.

[DirtyBird]

thx mcargo.


A recurring monthly plan.

Gespenst MKIII ~ HeliosCSarsalid 1 point 1 hour ago
I'm sorry could you explain the reason why one month memberships through prepaid cards don't get the 500SC? I didn't catch it in the last thread

j_smedley[S] 9 points 1 hour ago
To put it as simply possible - we want you to commit to a recurring sub to get these benefits. I don't want to sugar coat it. That is straight up why.

[Edfishy]

Why not just make hoardable "Purchase Tokens" that you can collect once every month? Personally I kind of like the idea of 'buy 1 of anything you want' over saving up the SC. =\

Either way I'm fond of the idea of an all SOE pass for $15/mo.

[OCNSethy]

Just thought.. I would probably buy more armour cosmetics with SC if it was possible to place rank and decal insignia on them.... just a thought...

[typhaon]

RE: Smed's Update

Confused...

But - I think this is good.

[Ghoest9]

Im impressed.


Im impressed that players gave strong enough feedback to cause a change.

Im impressed that SOE listened and came to its senses.

[Chefkoch]

So one Sub for all SOE PC Games ?? So technically we get Planetside 1 included in the "new" Subscription ? Cool

[Eggy]

So one Sub for all SOE PC Games ?? So technically we get Planetside 1 included in the "new" Subscription ? Cool

I had not considered this, but yes I would assume its included.
Id rather they just switched PS1 off completely though.


The "revised" sub plan is pretty good I think.
Still allows the hoarders to hoard.
Still gives PS2 subs spending power (on everything in the store).
The discount was unexpected.
The "all access pass" is also nice. Means i might actauly have a look at eq next now.

[Johnjohns]

Sounds good to me.

[Ghoest9]

Id rather they just switched PS1 off completely though.





Yay for self important irrationality.

[Mox]

It isnt clever to think this is a good deal.... poor subers.....

[Ruffdog]

It isnt clever to think this is a good deal.... poor subers.....

It's good they listen to feedback though. It's just too bad some of their initial ideas are half baked, unpopular and out of left field.
Wonder how many people un-subbed between Plan1 and Plan 2?

[Tatwi]

It's good they listen to feedback though. It's just too bad some of their initial ideas are half baked, unpopular and out of left field.
Wonder how many people un-subbed between Plan1 and Plan 2?

The truly half baked thing is SOE treating station cash like a currency conversion rather than an item purchase. When I buy $10 of SC that money is gone, never to used again, it belongs to SOE. Can't be converted, can't be refunded. Thus to the buyer, purchasing SC is a straight up purchase of goods. Yet SOE does not treat it as such, which is really their problem, not ours - customers should not be expected to try and understand the inner workings of a company in order to use the services provided, largely because the customer is not privy to detailed information on the company, but in no small part because it is inappropriate to burden the customer in such a way.

Does McDonald's make customers understand the production chain of a Big Mac meal before selling them the meal? Does anyone do anything similar? Not to my knowledge.

No one cares how SOE handles SC internally. If it's broken for SOE, that's their problem to solve, not the customer's.

[Crator]

No one cares how SOE handles SC internally. If it's broken for SOE, that's their problem to solve, not the customer's.

However, they had to make a change to the existing plan that they are offering the customer. In turn customers asked questions and raised concerns with the modified offering. This in turn prompted them to let the customer know the inner workings of the station cash inside the company. Also, they modified the new offering because many were not happy with it.

[Tatwi]

However, they had to make a change to the existing plan that they are offering the customer. In turn customers asked questions and raised concerns with the modified offering. This in turn prompted them to let the customer know the inner workings of the station cash inside the company. Also, they modified the new offering because many were not happy with it.

I totally understand and agree that they need to get the SC system in order, but what Smed said implied that people should feel bad about not spending their SC. That he should have left out.

[Baneblade]

When I buy SC, I'm buying SC, not the stuff I trade the SC in for.

[Elahhez]

The emergency change with the subscription plans, to cover all games at the same price, suits me mighty fine as i was thinking about trying out EQN when it's out.

[RSphil]

seems ok to me. have to see how it plays out. never really noticed the 500SC as i always spent a lot in Planetside 2. dont play any other SOE games. well not untill EQN and EQNL come out.