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View Full Version : the difference between radeon 9800and 9700


theironfist
2003-04-17, 04:38 PM
the difference any one now I'm not exactly a tech head here

I'm just wondering (since I can't find a 9800 now) should I wait or just get a 9700 pro?

SpaceDrake
2003-04-17, 04:49 PM
Clock speeds. The R350 (the core of the 9800) is essentially a revamped R300 that allows higher clock speeds. The improvement so far isn't that impressive IMHO, however. I'd go with a Raddy 9700.

An article on the matter: http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/ati_radeon_9800_pro/default.asp

Gammit10
2003-04-17, 04:51 PM
^ I agree ^

zenthor
2003-04-18, 01:33 AM
Id agree with him go with the 9700 theyre all very similar just a bit faster on the fps end but they all get a good 100 fps any more then that and you cant really notice the differance i just ordered one like 20 mins ago off of the internet its about $220 with shipping ittle be here friday

WickedDeus
2003-04-18, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by zenthor
Id agree with him go with the 9700 theyre all very similar just a bit faster on the fps end but they all get a good 100 fps any more then that and you cant really notice the differance i just ordered one like 20 mins ago off of the internet its about $220 with shipping ittle be here friday

You got a 9700 Pro AGPx8 128MB for $220 with shipping?
Would you mind posting what site and if it was made by ATi or a 3rd party?
Lowest I found for it was $260 without shipping.

zenthor
2003-04-18, 12:18 PM
I found it on www.pricewatch.com there all oem third party but a word of warning dont buy from compuhq.com they are out of stock and wont give me my money back for the next 10 days:( :( :(

WickedDeus
2003-04-18, 12:30 PM
Lowest on pricewatch is $264....you must have gotton a 9700 Gold. Which is a great card.

Doobz
2003-04-27, 09:55 PM
i beg to differ

tom's hardware site has a great review of the 9800 Pro and the tests and benchmarks show it pulls ahead of the 9700 Pro by a good margin, not just a few fps

OmnipotentKiwi
2003-04-28, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by Doobz
i beg to differ

tom's hardware site has a great review of the 9800 Pro and the tests and benchmarks show it pulls ahead of the 9700 Pro by a good margin, not just a few fps
Off the top of my head I think it is a 5-10% increase, which was below the expected 20% increase. It IS noticable but the question is, is it really worth the price difference?

Lion of Judah
2003-04-28, 05:45 AM
i still need to upgrade my PC to utilize the 8x....
that makes me a sad panda.

OneManArmy
2003-04-28, 08:14 AM
trust me panda, you're going to be even more sad when you find out that upgrading to 8x AGP does nothing...

OmnipotentKiwi
2003-04-29, 05:33 PM
There is barely a difference between 2x and 4x as it stands anyhow on top of the 0 difference between 4x and 8x.

Zatrais
2003-04-30, 04:11 PM
Damnit, AGP 8X yields half a percent increase in most games over 4x... it's an increase! :P

Seriously tho, get the 9700 pro. 9800 won't be worth the cost and well by the time you need 256mb card the 9800 will be outdated.

OmnipotentKiwi
2003-04-30, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Zatrais
Damnit, AGP 8X yields half a percent increase in most games over 4x... it's an increase! :P

Seriously tho, get the 9700 pro. 9800 won't be worth the cost and well by the time you need 256mb card the 9800 will be outdated.
Hyperthreading shows that same half a percent increase. ;)

LesserShade
2003-04-30, 05:43 PM
It was my understanding though that hyperthreading really doesn't buy you anything unless the games you are running are made to utilize dual processors... which would mean right now like q3 and that's about it. Am I wrong?

Zatrais
2003-04-30, 05:46 PM
Software needs to support it to use it yeah..

HT is still pretty new and few things take advantage of it so far, but give it a year or 2 :)

OmnipotentKiwi
2003-04-30, 05:48 PM
Hyperthreading is more designed for dual processes, not really enhancing gaming, although they are trying to tweak software so it does. Hyperthreading gives you the advantage of your system being able to handle dual processes as well as a dual processor system. So basically, if you use Adobe while Video editting, hyperthreading is a cheap alternative to dual processesors. :)

Doobz
2003-04-30, 09:25 PM
no, i believe if you look at that tom's hardware review, you will see that there is more than just a 5% difference, it's actaully quite significant

it also employs new technology, it's not just a raw power upgrade

OmnipotentKiwi
2003-04-30, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Doobz
no, i believe if you look at that tom's hardware review, you will see that there is more than just a 5% difference, it's actaully quite significant

it also employs new technology, it's not just a raw power upgrade
The difference between 4x and 8x AGP is non existant.

The difference between the 9700 Pro and 9800 Pro is roughly 10-15%. The price difference is 33%. It just isn't enough bang for your buck. This 10-15% increase also assumes the 9700 Pro can't handle whatever it was in the first place. The difference between 60 FPS and 70 FPS is 15%, but it isn't noticable.

Doobz
2003-04-30, 10:31 PM
i didn't say there was a difference between 4x and 8x AGP, only that the 9800 Pro has more than a 5% difference than the 9700 Pro

OmnipotentKiwi
2003-04-30, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Doobz
i didn't say there was a difference between 4x and 8x AGP, only that the 9800 Pro has more than a 5% difference than the 9700 Pro
Yeah, my first remark undershot the mark. It is about 10-15%.

Doobz
2003-04-30, 10:35 PM
ah, yes, but see, i'm aiming to run everything at full AA and ASF at 1600x1200 which is where the 9800 Pro truly pulls ahead

OmnipotentKiwi
2003-04-30, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Doobz
ah, yes, but see, i'm aiming to run everything at full AA and ASF at 1600x1200 which is where the 9800 Pro truly pulls ahead
Might want to try to get a monitor first that will give you a good refresh rate at those resolutions. I recommend atleast 85Hz, which requires a monitor that goes up to atleas 107kHz.

Doobz
2003-04-30, 10:40 PM
i run things at 1600x1200 right now (no AA or ASF) with my ti4600 at 72hz without any noticeable issues with the refresh rate.

i'm just upgrading so i have the best :D

OmnipotentKiwi
2003-04-30, 10:47 PM
Refresh Rates and the Human Eye (http://www.monitorsdirect.com/pdf/refreshrate.pdf)

Doobz
2003-04-30, 11:00 PM
ummm... ok, i don't get headaches or eyestrain unless i'm on for like 8 hours

OmnipotentKiwi
2003-04-30, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Doobz
ummm... ok, i don't get headaches or eyestrain unless i'm on for like 8 hours
Think of it. A new monitor, and you can go for 12. :D

Doobz
2003-04-30, 11:13 PM
ha, no

i'm already blowing 690 bucks on a new mobo, 1 gig of DDR PC2700 RAM, that 9800 Pro, and a 360 watt power supply soon

Daleon
2003-04-30, 11:40 PM
There are quite a few things going for the 9800 Pro above the 9700 Pro. Image Quality is the best on the 9800 Pro, thats without any question. Its also the fastest card out right now, with little to no question. At high res, high AA/AF, it puts many games into playable fps where the 9700 Pro does not quite.

I have a 9700 Pro right now, which will soon be replaced with a 9800 Pro once they are in stock. The BIGGEST thing going for the 9800 Pro though is that ATI had more time to work on the core and improve it. There are tons of little issues that pop up with various ppl using the 9700 Pro. Alot of ppl don't get them, it has alot to do with system configs, CTKI, and what visual settings you use. But the 9800 Pro so far seems to have many less of these little nasty surprises.

OmnipotentKiwi
2003-04-30, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by Daleon
I have a 9700 Pro right now, which will soon be replaced with a 9800 Pro once they are in stock. The BIGGEST thing going for the 9800 Pro though is that ATI had more time to work on the core and improve it. There are tons of little issues that pop up with various ppl using the 9700 Pro. Alot of ppl don't get them, it has alot to do with system configs, CTKI, and what visual settings you use. But the 9800 Pro so far seems to have many less of these little nasty surprises.
That seems like a bit of overkill still. I bet within a few months we will find ways to tweak a 9700 Pro to around the same as 9800 Pro, much like they did for the 9500 Pro to the 9700 Pro.

Doobz
2003-04-30, 11:51 PM
no, you can run the clock speeds up, but you can't install the new technologies that the 9800 Pro has over the 9700 Pro

the jump from smartshader and smoothvision 2.0 to 2.1 was rather significant, allowing for increased visual quality without as much loss to performance, which the reviews and test actually show, it's not some stuff that ATI is just touting

OneManArmy
2003-05-01, 11:36 AM
well on the monitor thing, I use 75Hz all the time and it never bothers me.

I'm sure the 9800 is better but It is still a waste of money if you are already running the games fine. I dont plan on upgrading until i see some signifigant changes .I dont change video cards that often. here's my little chart of evolution..



Voodoo2 --> Geforce2 mx --> geforce3 ti 200 --> radeon 9500 pro

and I will stay with the radeon for a while (well untill cards with 256MB become cheap enough or I cant play games anymore..) because man I was barely hitting 15-20 fps in Counter-Strike with that voodoo 2 years and years ago....

Doobz
2003-05-01, 01:45 PM
the amount of RAM in the card from a 128 to a 256 really doesn't make much of a difference actually

i would wait until the 9800 Pro comes down in price if you're gonna get a new top of the line card

OneManArmy
2003-05-01, 03:15 PM
yea but having 256megs of ram on your card just sounds friggen cool. I mean hell I fix computers all day that have less than that...

Daleon
2003-05-02, 01:25 PM
Well there are no real numbers yet for the 256 cards. So until they get some no one will really know if they help with todays games or not. I'm not to worried about tommorows games because I will have tommorows card for them.

No I wouldn't suggest ppl with 9500 Pro or 9700 Pro's to upgrade to 9800 Pro's. But thats not what the guy who started this thread asked about. For someone wanting the best card available now its the 9800 Pro. Its no more expensive than the 9700 Pro was when it came out.