Originally Posted by MCYRook
You didn't really respond as to why we think muting cross-faction chat is "idiotic" (my words, not Fig's), so I'll spell it out clearly:
1. If the goal, social-design-wise, is to minimize the potential for the occurrence of "bad behaviour", then it obviously isn't enough to do away with cross-faction chat only, you'd have to kill own-faction chat as well, because that's where the vast majority of crap in the chat box comes from. The cross-faction abuse is only a small part. Which you can avoid in another way than outright preventing it, because...
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Absolutely true. Doing away with cross-faction chat would not be enough. I think it is a rather simplistic solution, but I think it is an easy one to implement and one that would yield very tangible positive results. That is a personal opinion based on playing other online games (not PS1 - I am not a PS1 veteran).
Originally Posted by MCYRook
2. /ignore
Problem solved, that guy won't pester you again. Too much work? Well depending on how many idiots there are, you might have to put a fair few names on your ignore list, sure. But it's worth the effort, because...
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I think this is both true and not quite so true at the same time. Yes it is true that the one guy wont pester you again, but the culture that encouraged the creation of that behavior has not been corrected. Other idiots can and will arise, their behavior unchecked by any game design mechanism other than the ignore option at the individual user level.
If the ignore option is the only mechanism in place then I would like to see it expanded upon at the very least. Suggestions:
- Every time someone sends out a message for any reason a box appears next to their name in the chat window. Click the box to add them to the ignore list.
- Allow ignore lists to be shared automatically with other people. Eg. If I enable the option in my settings, I can automatically have people added to my ignore list that other people I trust or play with have also ignored (friends, family, outfit buddies, etc).
- Make it so that every time someone is put on an ignore list that they get a system notification telling them how many people just added them to their ignore lists.
This would be going beyond a mere option to ignore someone. It would be making the process easy to do, and adding social reinforcement into the system (which is actually the only kind of thing I think can be effective at all). With additional measures such as these in place, every time you ignore someone you are effectively telling them: your behavior is unacceptable, and all of my friends agree with me.
Originally Posted by MCYRook
3. A lot of good, positive interaction can come from cross-faction chat. In a way, it's even more valuable being cross-faction, because faction rivalry and killing each other in-game makes for a bigger threshold to overcome here in order to achieve mutual respect.
That's not even getting to that taunty banter and even trolling can be positive as well - positive in that it makes players play more rather than less. This is re: "why is trash talk bad per se?" - it isn't, it can be a big motivational factor to "show him!".
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I dont agree with this. Again this is a personal opinion. That sort of thing can be done via moderated forums. While it can be motivational to some people to have trash talk in a game, to many others it can have the exact opposite effect.
I would prefer other ways to encourage rivalries in-game. Show how many times a particular enemy has killed you without you managing to kill them. Show when another enemy gets revenge on you for killing them too many times. Show how many times they have run you over with vehicles, or compare how many times you have knifed each other. These sort of stats can be shown every time you die and tailored for each person that kills you, and they would add a lot of the motivation you seek from trash talk without the negative repercussions it can have.
Originally Posted by MCYRook
Fulton also concedes that WoW and FPS games have a whole different range of social difficulties. Unfortunately, he doesn't go into detail here, but it's save to say that what is good in WoW isn't necessarily good in an FPS (which you agree with) - see the friendly fire example (which you also agree with).
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This is very very true. His main point however is that careful thought about and nurturing of a social culture or environment is an oft neglected aspect of games. MMORPGs and FPS are different beasts with their own challenges. PS2 is a hybrid between the two. I think it will have some of the worst aspect of both worlds. Either that or it will be relatively niche and languish like PS1 for a long long time.
Originally Posted by MCYRook
Similar solution as with a language filter actually - which I also find silly, but that's just me. Global Agenda for instance has it turned on by default.
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Its interesting that you mention Global Agenda. That was actually the only game that I have ever stopped playing because of abuse, and yes it was from someone in my own team.
I had just started playing the game, and as I often do I was playing a medic. The match I joined had one very very angry guy trying to tell everyone what to do. I followed instructions because I like teamwork. At one capture point everyone was getting repeatedly cut down by a turret from the opposing team. I typed into team chat for someone to take down the turret, but this was promptly ignored. After watching another wave of our guys get cut down by this one turret I went over and decided to take it out myself. I killed the guy repairing it and started hacking at the thing with my knife.
That was when our vocal 'leader' started hurling abuse at me for not doing my job as a medic. This incredible non-stop avalanche of abuse went on for at least a minute or two, and in that time I simply could not find any way to mute the guy. After failing to find the mute option I decided that it just wasnt worth it. I logged off and never went back. Yes I did take the trouble to report the guy, but I still never went back. At least in a typical FPS I (personally) am able tune out any abuse or offensive racial slurs because its just in the chat window. In a game with voice enabled you cant tune it out unless you mute the person, and if you cant do it within 5 seconds of the abuse starting it is probably just easier to go have a good time somewhere else.
I consider myself to be very very good at conflict resolution. Hell I have worked as a waiter for years during college, then later as a security guard for another couple of years during my second degree. In real life there are social and legal consequences for bad behavior. It should not be acceptable in a virtual environment.