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Old 2012-07-11, 04:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #22
MightyMan's Avatar
Re: Israel

Originally Posted by Warborn View Post
How about almost straight from the source?

WikiLeaks: Israel aimed to keep Gaza economy on brink of collapse

Israel controls what goes in and out of Gaza and other Palestinian enclaves. They say the goal is to prevent weapons from being sent in, but the reality is that they want to keep the Palestinian areas "'functioning at the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis". Meanwhile, anything the Palestinians or their sympathizers do is met with overwhelming force, up to and including the execution of civilians.

Meanwhile, who're the real victims of violence here? Is this horrible mistreatment of Palestinians and, as I said, apartheid justified because Israel is under grave threat? Well, considering the entire conflict has seen more than 5x as many Palestinian dead as Israeli, including 1620 Palestinian children killed (more than 10x as many Israeli children killed) I'm not sure Israel is the David in this story.

You can't blame this on the media. The numbers don't lie. Settlements are being built beyond agreed-upon boundaries, the outright repression of the Palestinians is admitted to, and there is a tremendous body count of dead civilians at the feet of the side with the tanks and attack helicopters. The only reason there aren't sanctions against Israel for its behaviour is because it would be political suicide for American politicians to ever suggest Israel be brought to task for its activities. So the US vetoes anything anyone ever does which is even remotely critical of the UN, and governments like my own in Canada who want nothing more than to fellate the American government for eternity follow suit and embarrass us all.
So. You know how those facts were pulled out of the ass of pro-palestine idiots in the UN and stuff. For example there was a story last year, when an important ambassador from the UN, tweeted a photo of a 6 years old girl, dead and covered in blood, claiming it is the work of Israel. Immediately, everyone started shouting and crying "Israel fuck you".
But whoopsy daisy, someone was smart enough to search that picture in tineye, and it appeared that it was actually a pic of a girl who died after FALLING FROM A SWING. You know where does this ambassador work now after the incident? IN THE UN. Unlike what you may think, many of those who are in charge of finding those statistics are also pro-palestinian and are very much against Israel, which means most of those statistics are faked to present Palestine as a baby angel and Israel as jack the ripper.
Now why is it not possible for 1620 children to be murdered by the IDF?
1. The IDF never EVER attacks peaceful civilians or civilian homes. When homes WERE attacked was when terrorists reinforced in them.
If children were killed, then it was because of them having a bomb attached to them, or (yes yes) as an accident, which is like maybe 3 after 60 years of a constant warfare.
And your "source", it is a link to wikipedia that says nothing about dead children.
"Israel aimed to keep Gaza economy on brink of collapse": I you would actually be there, you will see that they live better then in most of the muslim countries. This I have seen with my own eyes.

Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
I think Israel's pretty awesome. It's an island of modern society sitting in a sea of culture that is about 600 years behind the rest of the world.
Yey, your not trying to kill me with aggressive arguments, that's refreshing

Originally Posted by Vash02 View Post
You could also say that the Palestinians put down their weapons and then there was no Palestine.
Why should Palestinians put down their weapons to lose what little they have left?
What I said had nothing to do with palestine, but with the countries that surround Israel.
If palaetine had no weapons THERE WOULD BE PALESTINE, mostly because that is situation right now. Israel could have easily claimed it as it's territory 60 years ago. Instead it gave it the "Palestinian national authority".

Originally Posted by Pella View Post
Think of it as if the Chinese moved 1b people into north America and claimed that this was there land.

How would you feel and most importantly how would you react?. And while trying not to play the "my army is bigger than yours card". The Chinese could look after themselves.

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SO: The territory of Israel was given by the UN (well, another international body that the UN was later replaced by the UN and had the same authority) to Britain, after WW1 to be divided into two countries, one Palestinian and the other- Israeli. Britain took this because they thought there is oil sources in this territory, but after they understood they were wrong they treated it as a big burden, and decreased their support and authority over the territory.
Because of that, many disputes started between **** and palestines, that were not solved by Britain (they'r job was to keep peace in the territories).
Those disputes grew bigger and bigger, and more violent and aggressive as time passed and eventually carried over to the day of Israel's declaration, when the new Israeli territories were attacked by pretty much everyone, from the Palestinians to Egypt. To everyone's surprise, Israel did not only win the war, but also captured the new Palestinian country territories, most of which are today under the control of a completely autonomous body called the "Palestinian national authority".
Thus, Israeli territories are completely legal, and the Palestinians have their own territories too.

Originally Posted by Saifoda View Post
Well most of what needs to be said in here has been said already so far. The one thing I would like to add though is that more frequently (not always) than not it is the Palestinian groups (PLO etc...) which refuse to have proper talks with Israel. Many of their "preconditions" are simply absurd -- the complete annihilation of Israel, for example...
"Well most of what needs to be said in here has been said already so far."
As the forum section's name implies, this is a debate, it's not how it works, sadly considering 90% of the people here are trying to cut my balls off.
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