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Old 2012-05-03, 03:36 PM   [Ignore Me] #72
Noivad
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Re: Unions


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Perhaps it was called an union, but the way you described it is not quite a "normal" union. Unions are political organizations to back up workers, not organizations that train workers as apprentices. But you could be right.

Possibly that union was set up with the old guild system in mind though, especially if it was intended for carpenting, plumbing and smith works which were traditionally strong guilds. Guilds are interest groups of specific craftsmen and the attitude towards people from outside of the guild is also quite typical: only those within the local guild are accepted, others of the same trade but outside the union were typically shunned as 'illegal' rivals. In contrast to earlier forms of unions, it was obligated to join a guild in order to even practice a particular craft. The guilds were, beyond a form of union, a means to completely regulate the market.

Not sure if you're aware of the history of guilds, but in Europe these ran and dominated cities together. A lot of guilds had their own militias even up to the end of the 18th century.

Basically (and given Malorn's concerns with paranoia regarding market regulation, quite ironically), they were capitalist cartels motivated solely by self-interest. Governments in those days were very decentralised (cities ran the local area) and the ruling classes in the city and townships, meant basically the leaders of the wealthiest guilds. They dominated everything out of self-interest up to the point that new inventions were outlawed because not the entire guild could profit from it - if innovation was done outside of the guild a lot of pressure was enacted to get them into the guild or simply stop. Furthermore, people within a guild had to think alike.

Guilds existing well into the 19th century in Eastern Europe has been seen as one of the reasons that these areas were not industrialised as much as the west and therefore economically fell behind.


So one could argue that the smaller the central government and the more power to the local government and private owners, free trade is actually at risk. At least locally. Especially the western dutch shipping guilds profited immensily from the dutch international free trade doctrine, where a lot of other guilds were far more mercantile (examples of mercantile factions within Europe were The Hansa and Ligurian and Venetian trade leagues) and had trouble competing elsewhere.

Now that we got to the topic of free trade. Some funny things about free trade:





It gets funnier here:
I am not familiar with the Euro Guild System, only the the USA one. So perhaps there are some differences. I can tell you only of my experience with the labor union, and my friends experience with Police, Fire, and Teacher Unions. They are all currupt. They are all political, and they all do more harm them good.

The link below is the history of Unions, and yes it does mention Euros Uniondom. In fact it shows Unions in several countries.

The bigest Union is called Communisim - You know when Government gets into controlling the business of a country completely.

And workers, have, you know, all equal rights. They get to do whatever jobs that are selected for them. They all get the same pay - Equal pay for equal work. They are all commrades.

All Unions start with Labor. The act of work. The Laborer. He who does work.

Because the worker must have rights. An we the Union will give it to them. Of course some where along the way those in control get more rights, and the laborers get less. They start off making more money and in time make less. who knew?

Some where along the way Unions, turn form organizations that want to help the worker to organizations that dictate to the worker.

And before you talk about the power of the Strike - against companies - know this. You the worker do not even have the right to strike. If the Union says no you don't.

Unions control workers, no matter what job they do. In return they promise, but mostly do not deliver, better rights for the worker, higher pay, and protection from companies who would abuse them. Better skilled , better trained workers. lol. And then, there are the unskilled unions starting in 1936.

The first real " MAY DAY" that happened in the United States was about the Unions back then too.

History always repeats itself.

These links will show the link to Labor Organization, or Unions. When you get to the basis all of these terms are interchangable.

They are all forms of control on production. They all start with labor. They all do what they do in the name of the poor worker. And Ultimately they all fail. If any worked at all, and they were so great, don't you think we would all be in them by now.

Thes links should help clarify my statements.

MAY Day History - http://www.marxists.org/subject/mayday/index.htm


Unions

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/friedman.unions.us

About Trade Unions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union

About Communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

About Socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

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