PlanetSide Universe - View Single Post - AGN: Community Clash Recording TXR and MERC vs NNG and TGWW
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Old 2013-09-26, 01:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #41
TorinPS
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Re: Community Clash TXR and MERC vs NNG and TGWW


Originally Posted by Rolfski View Post
Keep in mind that Community Clash is intended for every outfit, not just the esport ones. Knowing that your outfit will be dead in the water on Nexus if you don't sustain at least a wing of BR 100 reverse thrusting ninjas, is not exactly a tempting invite to participate in these Community Clash series.
It is true, which is why it seems that RC has been attempting to pair people up based on this reality. Why FC faced TIW, etc.

You can't of course everyone to be a good pairing. You could argue that last night's pairing was not the best, but it wasn't horrible. MERC has some good pilots, I know our comms reflected a constant push to kill SNAFU, which was a difficult endeavor. I'm sure future match-ups will give some additional analysis to the air side of things, as it is important.

Originally Posted by Rolfski View Post
On a competitive map, air should be a valid tactic but never the only one as now seems to be the case here (although it's a bit early for final conclusions). That's just boring to watch and bad game design. Any tactic needs a counter and atm AA seems too weak on this particular map to be an effective counter.
I'd argue that on a competitive map, combined arms is the only valid tactic. You need to be able to win all aspects of the fight, to win the overall battle. If you lose the air fight, everything else falls apart. Just like if you 'drew' on the air fight, but lose the ground fight. Air has a counter, air. This is actually how PS2 was designed from the beginning, and it is only the mass proliferation of easy-to-use AA and the droves of people spamming skill-less weapons that creates the environment you see on public servers. When you limit the game to a finite amount of people on both sides, that becomes a more reasonable share of the equation. AA has been 'put in its place', to where it is really only effective over the base it is employed (not 3 hexes away like it is on the public servers), so if you are going to pull it, you need to pull a substantial enough amount to actually fight it. Want to kill 4 ESFs and 2 Liberators shelling your spawn? You better be planning to pull like 8 DB MAXes or multiple 3+ Skyguards in short order. Or your own ESFs.

But you can't rely on the pubbie masses to do the job for you. This was always the issue with AA early on in PS2, and why it got buffed so much to where it is now. People always assume someone else will do it. But when you're playing 48 v 48, there is nobody to do it for you. And when you don't do it yourself, you suffer the consequences.

A lot of the previous RCCCs have been very focused on infantry gameplay confined to a single base. That's all fine and dandy, but then you get battle islands, and open it up to 48v48 gameplay. These maps were designed with the core principles of PS2 combined arms play in mind. You get air superiority, you can pull ground vehicles and push with infantry onto points. You want to change that status quo? You start with the air.

Originally Posted by Rolfski View Post
Games like Battlefield series only allow for a few vehicles in the game, which prevents all kinds of balancing issues Planetside 2 had from the start.
Vehicle play in this game is just way too different from any other game because of its scale.
In a way yes, but in a way no. Yes, you're usually limited to a handful of aircraft, 2-4. You also only usually play with 12 or so people, so it's about the equivalent split. Sure, you could pull 48 aircraft, but you wouldn't get anything done. While there are not a finite amount of vehicles (except as limited by resources) to use, there is a finite amount of people you can dedicate to them, and still be able to take bases.

Originally Posted by Rolfski View Post
This exactly illustrates why the air game is so broken atm. The skill vs reward balance is completely whacked. If you don't spend 500+ hours into flying, you simply have no place in the air which is ridiculous, even for esports outfits. Knowing that you have to rely on recruiting outside to stay competitive is too much of a threshold, even for them.
It's ok for this game to have an insanely high skill ceiling but it should never result in insanely high rewards like this match painfully made clear.
A top ace 1000+ hours pilot should only be 20% stronger vs a mediocre pilot, not 2000%.
That is definitely an opinion. There are infantry equivalents of the ace vs. mediocre pilot scenario, and they are so significantly better than it isn't even a reasonable pairing. People who are so better in tanks than other people, that they have absolutely no chance to lose.

Flying is one of the highest skill cap activities in the game, and the people who got good at it, are the ones who spend very significant time doing it. If you want to go up against 15 guys who have spent thousands of hours doing nothing but flying, you need to bring the same thing.

Air in PS2 has become mostly a joke, because the number of people on the ground pulling AA at random, vastly outnumbers the people with the interest, motivation and willpower to keep trying at the air game. The air game is rough. Practically everything can kill you, especially at ranges you have no ability to retaliate. Very few people overall are dedicated enough to stick to it. The people who are, get really good at it, and compared with the average player with 100 hours in an ESF, are significantly better as a result.

Air superiority is a key aspect of the overall flow of battle, this is how the game was designed. If you want to use a soft counter (G2A) to win that battle, you need to allocate pretty damn significant resources to it, or don't bother. If you can't use your hard counter (air) to counter other air, then consider yourself outmatched.

This is where it will be key for the RCCC and MLG (if they ever amount to anything) to pick proper matchups.

If MLG ever does become a thing, people playing in that competitively will be faced with the exact same scenario.

And if you nerf air because of the Nexus, then air becomes even more useless in the 'public PS2 world'.
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