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Old 2012-08-07, 03:39 AM   [Ignore Me] #92
MightyMan
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Re: Israel


Originally Posted by TheDAWinz View Post
This thread should be renamed U.S. vs Mexico. I say we carpet nuke them!
Sorry man but the 1st of April is too far for me to do that.

Originally Posted by Neurotoxin View Post
Funny thing is that the conditions were already bad in east Berlin before the World War era, so putting up a wall didn't worsen the area. The workers in East Berlin were well-trained, and were being taken care of better than before the wall went up. When the wall came down, workers in the East divisions were better trained and educated, but would be exploited the same as any other worker, and it is cited that the East division workers were responsible for German innovation and economic growth after the wall came down.

I wouldn't consider the apartheid to be anything close to East/West Berlin. Berlin was a matter of two opposing ideologies represented by two super-powers of the time. Israel and USA vs Palestine is much more of a one-sided oppression, in the form of apartheid.

Israel would not be "wiped out" by Arab nation if it is a one-state that gives fair rights and liberties to all citizens, Jewish or Muslim or Christian or otherwise, Arab or *** or anything else. It would make no sense to wipe out a nation that is peaceful and doesn't oppress its citizens, and doesn't have the goal of becoming a 100% Jewish state.

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Peace talks broke down in Israel because the PLO was declared the representatives of the Palestinian people (not by Israel), despite being one of many organizations struggling for peace. It would be like if America was invaded, and the Tea Party was selected to represent all American citizens in the now-occupied country.

After PLO was declared the representative of Palestinian people, it was easy to pick a few things about them that Israeli government didn't approve, and then declare that they would not conduct any more peace talks with the only group that is recognized as representing Palestinians. Current leadership is Israel refuses to try to make peace with a group that all Palestinians don't even feel represent them or their ideals. So no, it isn't on the side of Palestinians, the fault and failure of peace negotiations is a combination of the recognition of PLO as the only group to represent Palestinians, and the ability for Israel's leadership to decline further peace talks with the one organization that got to be recognized to represent Palestinians.

The average Palestinian citizen has no voice, has no power, has no group to join in with peace talks or liberation that can make progress with the government. Sounds like the only things they can do are fight back or leave, kinda tough place to be in.

Then again, if you kick me out of my home, drive me to a dirt lot, and tell me to live there from now on, I'm gonna come back with the meanest things I can to try to reclaim my home, or at least make it unlivable for those who kicked me out. Palestinians who fight for their liberation aren't doing any different. The original settlements purchased by European Zionists are tiny little places, and they were bought long before the World War era. Everything else Israel has gained has been through military action.
Neurotoxin you dumb, dumb infantile. If I can still respect Warborn's arguments for making logic in theory, you'r arguments are just a bunch of things that a terrified kid would tell to his mother after he was scared by the monster under his bed. There are so many things that are flawed in you'r logic and you'r basic knowledge, that it just amazes me.
In you'r arguments you have presented nothing but conspiracies, and you choose to completely ignore not only my arguments but also reality.

LETS START:

1. USA IS NOT WITH ISRAEL ON THIS CONFLICT. INFACT, THE USA HELPED TO MAINTAIN THE CONFLICT PEACEFUL (lol, but there is bombing ( only at terrorists). LOL BUT THERE IS NO WAR). They are on neither side of the conflict and are natural.
The USA did not take part in any of the wars of Israel with the surrounding countries. In fact, they are the one who helped to organize most of the peace treaties of Israel with the surrounding countries, and the one who organizes the peace talks between Israel and Palestine.

2. Israel WOULD be wiped out. YOU KNOW WHY? Because of ideology. Not because we are in a conflict with the Palestinians. Religion (or at least religious leaders) tell them that Israelis are sinners, demons, satan, drinkers of arab baby blood, and should be punished for insulting Allah with their religion.
That is the common ideology in countries like Iran who shout all the time stuff like "LOLZ WE GONNA MAKE BOMB AND THROW IT ON YOU" "LOLZ WE ARE GOING TO MASSACRE YOU". Now other countries, who are a bit more sane then Iran, would go in war with Israel, for the simple reason of gaining profit from it. The rule gets more popularity, and in case of victory, they gain new territories and resources. Unlike what you may think, the rule of most of the arab countries do not give two shits about Palestinians. And unlike what you may think, if Israel puts it's guns down and gives away all of the territories, there wouldn't be a big tea party with balloons and cakes, instead, the territories would be used to launch attacks on more populated territories of Israel. Palestinian people will not just say "hey hey hey, you gave us the territories now we are BFFs, they would demand all the remaining territories too. It is simple human logic.

3. PLO was not declared as the representative of the Palestinian nation. The
"Palestinian National Authority" was declared as the representative. Now you may say "But hey, it was still declared Israel and not by the Palestinian nation" and I would slap you. The PNA is only the government in general. Just like in any democratic country. The actual members of the government are chosen by the Palestinian people. The only thing that Israel has declared about the PLO is the fact that they are no longer hostile towards each other (before 1993 the PLO was a terrorist organisation who called for wiping out Israel).
It was elected as the ruling party in the Palestinian government by Palestinian citizens only. Now you may say: hurr durr Israel was responsible for the election, by using fake votes and stuffs. The funny thing is that the PLO is no longer the ruling party of the Palestinian government. Beginning from 2005 until today, the ruling party is the Fatah. The REAL funny thing here is that the Fatah is completely hostile towards Israel. So saying that Israel somehow steers the elections in it's favors is ridiculous.

"The average Palestinian citizen has no voice, has no power, has no group to join in with peace talks or liberation that can make progress with the government. Sounds like the only things they can do are fight back or leave, kinda tough place to be in. "

Ludicrous. As said above, Palestinians CAN vote. They DO have power. As citizens of Palestine (they even have their own Palestinian passports for gods sake). Why don't they have power in Israel? Because they are not citizens of Israel, just like French people don't have power in Britain.

"Then again, if you kick me out of my home, drive me to a dirt lot, and tell me to live there from now on"

Fuck off. No Palestinians have EVER been kicked out of their homes. Those that lost their homes, were the one who left them willingly after the establishment of Israel to the surrounding countries. Years later they come back, crazed by flawed ideology and start shouting "Those are our homes. It's not like our families willingly gave them up years ago to move into different territory, and it's not like the Palestinians who stayed in Israel are now Israeli citizen who's homes were never touched by other Israelis, totally. We are the rightful owners of those territories even though we have no documents what so ever about it".
Does that sound logical to you? DOES IT?

"The original settlements purchased by European Zionists are tiny little places, and they were bought long before the World War era. Everything else Israel has gained has been through military action."
So, half the country was Israel's as it was divided by the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine.
The other half was Palestinian. Right after the establishment of Israel (on the same day), 6 surrounding arab countries have declared a war on Israel, to try and conquer the Israeli half. At the time of war the Palestinian territory was under the rule of Jordan. At then, Israel won the war and conquered Jordan's Palestinian territories. Now, Instead of having 100% of the territories, 25% were given to the Palestinians (willingly, without war), and those territories are now fully under Palestinian. Another territory that was conquered by Israel is the Gaza strip which is about 5% of Israel which was given to the Palestinians too. Which means that as of now 70% of the territories belong to Israel and 30% belong to Palestine.
Originally, 55% of the territories were supposed to be Israel's which means that right now, 15% of Israel's territory were actually occupied from another country. A hostile country. One that has nothing to do with Palestine.

You did not even try to research the history of this conflict before you rammed in shouting that Israel is jack the ripper and that Palestine is mother Teresa did you?
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