PlanetSide Universe - View Single Post - Resource System Proposal: Feedback Requested
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Old 2013-07-09, 09:12 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
Sirisian
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Re: Resource System Proposal: Feedback Requested


If you're still reading, don't worry about my replies. I don't mind if people say the same thing more than once. I'm just collecting ideas and changes.

Originally Posted by Wahooo View Post
I'm not 100% on the dropping from space thing for the modules. We are talking about Nanites from the planet to maybe a way to pull them from the ground, rather than from mystery space?
Well it's up to the designers. I prefer having stuff crash from space aesthetically. Most of the buildings have jet engines on them already so it's believable. I'd go with a compromise. Due to Auraxis deconstructing objects, in my lore explanation, Nanite Systems would construct the building at high altitude using a rocket of nanites. So a rocket would launch from a Warpgate and into the air and detonate nanites which would quickly form the object as it fell. That is you place your order and NS delivers it via rockets.

Originally Posted by Wahooo View Post
I do wonder some about how this affects people who die a lot, or die at a sunder right after spawning... repeatedly.
I'm kind of leaning toward a PS1 system where players spawn in pajamas at least at Sunderers. (Especially for MAX suits). This means if they die they only gain a death.

Regarding Sunderers though. With a vertical upgrade model it makes it easier I think to propose things like shield modules for a Sunderer on top of their AMS capabilities. Allowing overlapping modules is nice in that regard. You equip say cloaking or a shield or 50 extra Nanites to help protect against C4 and give players time to equip their gear at the terminal.

Originally Posted by Rahabib View Post
For one, if your team is pinned, its hard to get resources without farming, and it can be very frustrating, and boring on its own.
This is one issue that's hard to solve even in the current system. If players are pinned and pushed back to their Warpgate they have an efficiency bonus like I said which makes it cheaper for them to pull things. If they're pinned at an objective and outmatched the same thing that happens now will happen. Once you're pushed back to the spawnroom you either make a last ditch effort or pull from another base to attack from the outside. I think you might be right though about not having any resources in certain circumstances. bpostal brought this up also so I'll cover it later, but I agree it's an issue.

If they're not completely pinned and can still pull vehicles I have some suggestions on my site for that like this for getting players out of a base and destroying Sunderers.

Originally Posted by Rahabib View Post
Next, it shouldn't take a PhD to figure out how much you are getting.
It's in the image under loyalty. You see immediately how much you're getting and when you'll get your next amount. A big thing is making the UI work with the system.

Originally Posted by bpostal View Post
The loyalty system is interesting, but IMO players should always be 'rewarded' with at least some resources. No matter their current loyalty level.
When defining the proportional resource gain for loyalty I was trying to figure out if someone should be rewarded for time played. That is going idle at the Warpgate or at a base being captured. Ideally players should have no downtime or feel they need to wait so rewarding them for it wouldn't be constructive. It leads to people going idle waiting for timers and for resources to tick up. If players want resources to upgrade all they'd have to do is heal or repair or do damage to the enemy in anyway. This keeps players generally active. That said, I completely agree with your assessment. How would you feel about a minimum cap of say 200 Nanites. If you drop below that number you would automatically get 1 Nanite a second. Trying to think of a system that wouldn't feel cheap, but would help players sitting at a warpgate trying to push out. Go idle for a minute and you're fully equipped to kill a Sunderer for instance assuming you have 0% loyalty. You'd also need minor changes to other mechanisms. Like over X Nanites to build a tower for Y Nanites. So over 500 Nanites to spend 200 Nanites to place a tower on the map kind of thing. Simple restrictions to help make things sane.

You mentioned it already though and I'll cover it now since it's one of the most controversial parts of what I proposed. Charging people to use the certs they've unlocked.
Originally Posted by bpostal View Post
Certs are something that the player has earned. When players no longer have access to something they've earned, they're being punished, not rewarded.
You can look at it two ways. In the current system players are restricted with exclusive certs. This is most readily seen with suit modules. You can unlock all of them for a class, but you have a restriction on which you can use at any one time. Same for C4 and Mines for an Engineer. For a player that is a grunt and doesn't fly they'd have extra resources and could really specialize with the system I proposed. A light assault with both Flak Armor and Ammunition Belt for instance with 3 C4s and 2 Grenades. So players are already punished for getting exclusive certs. This system isn't necessarily a punishment as it's a way to specialize more and remove pointless exclusive restrictions while placing a more sensible limitation.

Originally Posted by bpostal View Post
As a personal anecdote, when I PL I may be sitting in the middle of the fight, looking at my map for a minute or two. Does this mean that I'm not contributing to the overall fight?
Well are you? If you're out of combat for extended periods your loyalty will begin to tick down. In my example my numbers were that loyalty would drop 1% every 5 seconds. So if you were at 60% loyalty and did nothing for 5 minutes. Didn't resupply, heal, or shoot anything you'd drop to 0%. I mentioned just getting an assist might be 10% which alone takes 50 seconds to go away. It would require testing, but the goal is to keep people in the battle. However, you might be right again. This was brought up before that players going to the Warpgate to jump in a Galaxy would suddenly see their loyalty drop as they plan for a few minutes. How would you feel if you didn't lose loyalty at the Warpgate but didn't get resources while being there? (Other than up to your minimum cap).

On that though this could extend to not getting resources while dead also and having the loyalty lock. The issue there is some players might want their loyalty to drop to gain resources as they wait to pull an awesome loadout. Which brings me back to the idea that it might be preferable to have players not spawn with a loadout so they have more incentive to just spawn and then look at their loadout at a terminal. (Removing it from the main menu). That is the death or spawn screen would only be for spawning essentially and you'd sit at if only if you want to go grab some food and preserve your current loyalty percentage. Getting into a bit of a more complicated redesign though at that point which I've tried to avoid. More special rules makes it more confusing.

Originally Posted by bpostal View Post
Also, there is a stock MAX loadout. For the Tr it's a Pounder and a DC. Sure it costs resources currently, but so do MBTs and Galaxies and you're talking about letting people pull those stock without penalty.
I think I see where the confusion is. "No resource system should cut off a player's ability to purchase certain vehicles." What I meant by that is things like losing the tech plant which block players on the map from pulling MBTs.

MAX units and vehicles would cost resources. Vehicles would have a stock cost like in my Liberator image. It's just that their stock weapons wouldn't cost anything extra over the base cost. The idea of "stock" items refers to certifications that designers determine would be free to use after certification.

Originally Posted by bpostal View Post
This only works if the player knows exactly the kind of situation that is going to occur next. Players are not mind readers and should not be punished for adapting to a given situation (Oops, I grabbed a Battle Rifle but now we're going into close quarters combat. Guess that was a waste of resources). The gameplay is much too fluid and changes much too quickly for this to be implemented without causing a great deal of frustration.
It's not too much difference than the current design. "Oh no I pulled proxy mines and suddenly there's a Sunderer next to me. I wish I had C4." It has one huge advantage though where players are only charged for what they use. On that note because of how the resource system removes restrictions this also means they don't have to be mind readers. If someone is a specialized grunt then they can have multiple C4, Mines, and other deployables on hand if they have the resources. Sure they'd lose them if they die, but they can be ready for any situation if they choose to specialize that way.


Originally Posted by bpostal View Post
Keep in mind with these generators though that base layout/design favors the attacking forces in almost every instance currently in the game. Base design would have to be fixed before the gens/mods go into place.
I mentioned having jump pads to them. It would be a different map. The idea being with larger maps that players would be coming from Sunderers and Galaxies mostly to attack. It would also be up to factions to build their defenses if they want to hold them. Could even have modules to increase the generator delay at a node you don't want to defend well.

Originally Posted by bpostal View Post
This stops players destroying friendly upgrades that are "wrong", leading to the waste of resources.
They're not tangible and each are completely separate. You could have a base with 30 modules installed if it came to that. The only way to destroy them is to take the base. As I mentioned though unfunded modules would have their resources go back to the players so there's no risk defending a base by investing in modules during the last stand.

Originally Posted by bpostal View Post
Players able to place towers? Seems ambitious.
That's added in because of complaints that there aren't enough resource sinks. That and people in other resource threads were talking about base building. I figured a nice compromise is crowd sourced defense. Also to waste that many resources to troll people you would really be hurting your own fun. Well multiple people would be investing a lot.

Originally Posted by bpostal View Post
If tech plants are going to add 10% nanites to adjacent areas then there needs to be a minimum of three per continent with the current continent setup.
The 16x16 km maps assume a rework of bases. I mean you'd be looking at new generators and map designs around their placements. It's not a small change, but is designed as one that could slowly be implemented possibly.

Originally Posted by adaroe View Post
3. This ties into two. You made everything (practically down to the boxers my soldier wears) cost nanites. Yet again admirable and for the top performing players this works perfectly. What about the non-beastly players? They run out with their nice scope and nade launcher only to get ohked by a sniper. same thing with drawing an esf or tank. Yes it slows the stem of dumb people in tanks but at what cost?
I'm thinking about this with the 200 minimum cap. It's important that the average loyalty will be balanced around the average player. So 80% loyalty should be the average. 90-100% would be the top players. I should include an explanation on that.

Originally Posted by adaroe View Post
5. Man hours. A lot of what you're talking about would take months of designing-testing-feedback-redesigning-testing-and more feedback still.
Yeah, most of it has been on my site since last October or in random threads. It's how I initially envisioned PS2 releasing. Compared to the current system it is a huge list of changes, but I think it builds the framework for Planetside 2 to really evolve for the next few years. Especially map and cert wise. Currently their system for certs really limits them to release things that are sidegrades. It's noble, but a resource focused system where everything costs resources allows thousands of more certs to be created and lets player customize for situations. Ammo types are always my favorite example. Having a sniper round that drops a person's shield and blocks it from recharging for 20 seconds as an example. You can easily add a system like that a few years from now by charging players 4 Nanites per round. Suddenly you have players that are specialized snipers draining all their resources on special ammunition. Then you have the resource system built into base building. Tons of ideas there for outfits to customize a base how they want. Things like dropping down their own jump pads to better defend an area or placing tank traps to slow down enemy tanks.

Lot of awesome feedback. I'll be incorporating a lot of this, so thank you and keep it coming. Kind of wanted the devs not to read this yet since it's still just a WIP that might leave bad first impressions of the final goal.

Last edited by Sirisian; 2013-07-09 at 10:57 PM.
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