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Old 2013-09-28, 03:27 AM   [Ignore Me] #154
Re: Community Clash Recording TXR and MERC vs NNG and TGWW

Originally Posted by Changes View Post
A simple question needs to be answered. Did you bring in people who are not in your outfit "full time"?

According to CC ruleset:
Player Makeup:
1) All members must be a full time member of the outfit they are representing for the event.
2) Substitutes for your team can be made at the halftime/intermission

If you brought in anyone who was not in your outfit, you clearly broke this rule, whether your outfit runs with them "all the time" or not.
Dreadnaut (lead of TGWW) has instructed everyone to pull out of this mess of drama that has developed. I'll reply to you, in a semi-official capacity.

RCCC posted new new rules for the Nexus 47v47 on 9/23/2013 (announced via twitter:
) and then posted a thread about it on Reddit later that day. (

I, being someone that is an 'official' member of TGWW, but also someone who plays many factions on many servers, quickly replied to the thread attempting to clarify this very same rule. I asked quite plainly:

"All members must be a full time member of the outfit they are representing for the event." What does this even mean? I play characters on 4 different servers, across all 3 factions. I think I have 8 characters in total. Does that mean I would not qualify as a legitimate participant if one of my Outfits is participating? which I was given the by Torkz of:

"This rule was intended to stop outfits from pulling a number of "ringers" from whatever outfit to participate even if they don't normally play together. ( I know its an honor rule and cant really be enforced )"

(quote here:

So, at this point, I consider myself being in the clear, for sure. Before getting to my next point, a little history:

A group of pilots on Mattherson who are self styled the 'elite' of Mattherson, all started out in different factions. Rudelord, myself, Thundahawk, Krunk on NC, Naterian, Corewin, Harvester, Arcfault on TR and Dreadnaut, Soquez, Aarth, Larx, Plasmaszap, Selentic, Friednug, DeimosRising on VS. (these are the pilots we fielded for the event)

At first, we all played against each other. Corewin, Naterian, Arcfault as member of TE, Rudelord and Thundahawk soloing, me playing with CML and Krunk playing with CIR. Harvester has been one of the notable great pilots in BWC, one of the few. Dreadnaut and Soquez were a member of a larger [zergfit] outfit by the name of AT, and fell out, creating TGWW with Retrogreq. Plasma and Larx joined later. Friednug is and has always been with NNG, selentic used to be and is TGWW now. DeimosRising and Aarth used to members of Vanu Rangers. (VR)

We all played against each other in our various groups, practically all of us at the time being single faction players. Over time, through killing and being killed by each other, we start playing with each other. TGWW was building up, but had not recruited most of their current ESF talent. QRY formed when Naterian, Corewin and Arcfault more or less stopped playing with TR and started playing NC, mainly to prove a point about the Reaver. (which everyone bitched about as being the worst ESF) QRY grew into the first real major air threat on the server, that when they came around, you were going to die. Pilots still dedicated to TR began to form a similar air wing called Notorious.

For a time, it was these 3 main groups that fought against each other, with other outfits fielding 1-3 competent pilots at most, usually. After months of fighting each other, we all started growing closer and closer. QRY would fly with TGWW on VS, TGWW would fly with QRY on NC. Some of Notorious would fly with both, etc. etc. Over time, and as mentions of MLG started ramping up, people started to consolidate their alts more and more. Thundahawk, Rudelord, Harvester had alts invited into TGWW. Myself, Dreadnaut, Selentic, Krunk, etc. got invited into QRY. We were slowly forming each other's outfits, to the point that when any number of ~20-30 of us would log in, we would bunch up together. Sometimes that got boring, and some of us would switch factions to fight the others. Sometimes we just pubstomped all day long.

Every single person we've had in the TGWW air squad on Friday, is or was a current member of TGWW or NNG. (at the time they joined, a number of the current TGWW roster fielded were members of NNG, so some of the VS alts like Corewin's alt NegativeAce)

Two people, members of NNG at the time, Selentic and Nobomba (Krunk, from the RCCC) started a recruiting effort for MLG, or whatever competitive scene might develop. Since we all already played with each other, they started to scout things out, trying to get commitments from people that we played with all the time, that if MLG or whatever started up, they'd be 'with us'. We got pledges from all these people. This was a good 3-4 months ago.

Not long after, Selentic and Nobomba left NNG and joined TGWW permanently, and kep these ties alive. We still kept playing with all the same people, be it on VS, NC or TR. We were 90% all a member of each other's outfits on our alts, and kept challenging each other and growing.

So RCCC starts up, and NNG field a squad for a 24v24, with I think 1 lib. After that, Liberators were banned from RCCC. We stayed on top of it, but it was a 12v12 thing for a while, so we knew we had no place. We were getting to the point of organizing all our people to start scrimming with outfits like NUC for MLG practice. Then the Battle Island was made available to NUC (and others) for testing. We started to get excited.

Almost immediately, when word got out that RCCC would be able to run platoon vs platoon matches, Dreadnaut put our name into the hat. This is when shit started to ramp up fast for our group. We touched base with all of our people, so who were not even actively playing PS2, but still interested in the competitive side if it ever happened.

Then rules were announced. I asked for my clarification, and got it. The spirit of the rule was defined as playing with people you normally played with. Well, perfect, that's exactly what we had.

But knowing full well not everyone would see the reddit thread, we, for good measure, added the handful of VS alts (Thundahawk, Harvester, Rudelord, Naterian) that had no outfit (just flew with us outfitless) into TGWW, as to cross a minor technicality off of the list, just in case people asked questions.

Then we went to the competition as we've been planning to do, together, for a great many months. Our chemistry still worked just as well as it had before Rudelord/Corewin/Thundahawk/Naterian took a break from PS2, and it all came together for us.

So yes, everyone was a member of either NNG or TGWW. 4 of them were invited the day before, or day before that, of the event. These people, have previously been members of either TGWW or NNG, but for purposes of recruiting and maintaining a good PSU Outfit Leaderboard score, were removed from the outfit temporarily. (since the VS alts were low BR)

From a technical perspective, we simply reformed the outfit relationship for people who were kicked to keep a high outfit rank for TGWW.

From a non-technical perspective, everyone of thee people (and more) are members of a group of Mattherson pilots, who are, basically among the best people in the air. Which isn't to say every single one of them (some only play one faction really, Roz, Skifton, Rahsun, etc.) and are not part of this larger multi-faction, always-play-together air group.


a) we followed the letter of the rule by making sure they were a member of the oufit, of which they were previously, and temp kicked for recruiting reasons
b) we followed the spirit of the rule by ensuring the people we fielded were people we played with normally, which was the clarification provided to us by Torkz on reddit. (

We felt then, and still feel now, that we've done nothing wrong. We clarified the rule with RCCC, we were in line with it both technically and spiritually. We violated no rules. We brought nobody in that was a member of another outfit. Not a single person left one outfit, to join us for this event.

Going forward, we'll likely keep (unless Dreadnaut goes back to kicking low BR people out to maintain a high outfit rank) everyone in the Outfit, to avoid future drama.

So no, we did not bring in people who were members of other outfits, not full time members of TGWW or NNG.

I can probably list off names of ~10 very good pilots on Mattherson that we don't normally fly with, that don't play VS, that would have absolutely been 'ringers' in the technical sense. We didn't think for a second about doing that, because we wanted guys we've flown with and against for 8 months, guys we know how to play with, etc. We had plenty of great pilots ready to go, and that's what we brought.

Sorry for the history of Mattherson air, but I felt it was a necessary clarification leading up to the point I was going to eventually make. And with any luck, this will quell future drama that may spring up if you see something along the likes of BAX+QRY appearing on the RCCC lineup. (which a lot of the guys really want to do, because the Reaver owns)
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