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Old 2011-08-06, 10:13 PM   [Ignore Me] #1
Huma
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Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


A friend of mine is an ardent sniper in games and is an Air Force sniper irl. His biggest complaint is how ineffective sniper rifles are at range. I was thinking that a way to reward snipers for using their weapon correctly would be to scale up the damage the further the round travels. So at medium to short range it would do normal damage.
But if the sniper is able to hit someone at long to extreme range the sniper could potentially one shot someone. Now before you go off remember that Sony is going to simulate each round fired so to get these long range kill shots the sniper will have to be very good. The distance would have to depend on how big a hex is. If their fairly small then one end of the hex to the other or if their larger half a hex away.
Thise snipers good enough to make these kinds of shots should be rewarded with a bonus to their effectiveness.
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Old 2011-08-06, 11:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #2
Zulthus
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


I actually like this idea. It would cut down on the snipers that try to headshot 24/7 at close range and make the people who actually love sniping truly skilled at it. I know plenty of people who take a bolt driver into a base and shoot at point blank for easy kills.
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Old 2011-08-06, 11:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


/sign

This is a great idea, reward SKILL not the weapon. Hitting long range shots in PS1 is hard as hell with the lag. And tbh, this is how it works IRL too. Shooting a sniper at close range does hell a lot of damage, but it doesn't do the maximum damage til the round has traveled a good distance and gained its speed/momentum.
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Old 2011-08-07, 12:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
Cere
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Originally Posted by tjmonk15 View Post
/sign

This is a great idea, reward SKILL not the weapon. Hitting long range shots in PS1 is hard as hell with the lag. And tbh, this is how it works IRL too. Shooting a sniper at close range does hell a lot of damage, but it doesn't do the maximum damage til the round has traveled a good distance and gained its speed/momentum.
This isn't how it works in real life. It's not like bullets need a running start before they hurt people. From the moment they leave the gun, bullets lose velocity from air friction.

As for a game, while it would perhaps be fun for the sniper when he kills someone from across the continent, it's not much fun for the target. Consider Flails in PS1; there's no counter to them aside from suicidal hackers. The same would be true of snipers from miles away. Skill in real-life sniping doesn't translate to the game environment. In real-life, snipers have to control breathing and hand tremors. In computer games, it can be controlled by mouse sensitivity.

While having real-life elements in game can make them more believable, they're never going to translate well into a game environment. Otherwise, Reavers would fly at 1000 feet per second and an artillery shell that explodes near infantry would deafen the character for life.

It's all about game balance, and giving characters the ability to instantly kill someone else from the complete other side of the game field is out of balance.
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Old 2011-08-07, 12:57 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


A solution might present itself with a sniper rifle that is fitted with a scope that must be used to fire the weapon (no shooting from the hip) and would have a built in safety feature to only fire when a target is confirmed by the scope. This scope would only be effective for long range targets. For instance, the scope is locked at a high telephoto focal length giving the player a very small peripheral (12x for arguments sake) and the lens of the scope would have a narrow depth of field (example - from 100 yards to infinity). Any soldier standing closer than the scope can focus on would not allow the weapon to fire, forcing the sniper to only acquire targets at a fair distance away. To make the weapon more effective, a solution could be that only one shot is required if that shot strikes the targets head.
This might even open up an important new role to accompany the sniper in the form of a spotter. A special set of binoculars could be available to a spotter that would allow them to "spot" potential targets and paint them for the sniper. These binoculars would have a much larger peripheral with zooming ability, and analyze all targets within the effective range (perhaps even have available night vision and heat signature tracing), these targets would then be communicated to the sniper scope allowing the sniper to line up multiple targets quickly without too much hunting around.
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Old 2011-08-07, 01:11 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
headcrab13
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Originally Posted by Cere View Post
As for a game, while it would perhaps be fun for the sniper when he kills someone from across the continent, it's not much fun for the target.

It's all about game balance, and giving characters the ability to instantly kill someone else from the complete other side of the game field is out of balance.
Exactly, that's the whole point of this thread. You probably didn't see it, but the devs already confirmed that one-shot sniper kills were in the game. What the OP is proposing is to make those kills more challenging; to reward good snipers, and keep the n00blets from one-shotting your face at 15 feet out.

-HC13
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Old 2011-08-07, 01:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
Huma
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Originally Posted by headcrab13 View Post
Exactly, that's the whole point of this thread. You probably didn't see it, but the devs already confirmed that one-shot sniper kills were in the game. What the OP is proposing is to make those kills more challenging; to reward good snipers, and keep the n00blets from one-shotting your face at 15 feet out.

-HC13
Not only that but a sniper rifle is no flail and killing at range with a sniper rifle is no mean feat. You have to factor in travel time and the speed of your enemy. Not only that but if you can get a head shot from that far you DESERVE an instant kill. It's perfectly balance in that not just any sublet will be able to do it.
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Old 2011-08-07, 02:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Originally Posted by tjmonk15 View Post
And tbh, this is how it works IRL too. Shooting a sniper at close range does hell a lot of damage, but it doesn't do the maximum damage til the round has traveled a good distance and gained its speed/momentum.
How does the round gain any 'speed/momentum' after it has left the barrel?
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Old 2011-08-07, 02:51 AM   [Ignore Me] #9
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Originally Posted by NtrSandman View Post
How does the round gain any 'speed/momentum' after it has left the barrel?
Magic

Planetside did sniping perfectly, do it that way again. Using the Boltdriver at close range was pure luck, you were always better off using any of the MA weapons. Hopefully the only one hit kills from infantry in the game will be against those not wearing armor(cloakers).
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Old 2011-08-07, 03:00 AM   [Ignore Me] #10
exLupo
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Originally Posted by NtrSandman View Post
How does the round gain any 'speed/momentum' after it has left the barrel?
Could re-****** the lore and make them gyrojets instead of huge ass conventional rounds they're using now.

I'm not a huge fan of the idea but do I like it less than sniper rifles used as point blank cannons? Dunno. I will say I don't see that very often.
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Old 2011-08-07, 03:23 AM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Originally Posted by tjmonk15 View Post
it doesn't do the maximum damage til the round has traveled a good distance and gained its speed/momentum.
???
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Old 2011-08-07, 03:38 AM   [Ignore Me] #12
exLupo
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Originally Posted by Surge72 View Post
???
It's a common suggestion to stop close range gut-shot sniping. I've never actually seen it used in a game and the only way to make it work in a realistic sense is to use something based on gyrojet rounds.

They would have to be a hell of a lot better than modern gyrojets but, considering the relative lack of research time, there's probably a ton of room for improvement.

edit: And speaking of modern, there's the M107CQ, specifically designed to bring that anti-materiel weapon into urban confines.
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Last edited by exLupo; 2011-08-07 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 2011-08-07, 04:15 AM   [Ignore Me] #13
Senyu
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Sniper Rifles do 50% less damage within 50yds. 100% damage over 50yds. In the sniper skill tree there is a skill allowing snipers to do more than 100% damage while being X>100yds away. To use this option the sniper must be crouched/prone and must be immobile for 3 seconds.



There, snipers worse at close quarters, decent and working at longer range. And the more specced and skilled snipers receive a boost for their skills. All numbers posted are just out of thin air, they are not set and would be changed for balance reasons. Their just examples.

Last edited by Senyu; 2011-08-07 at 04:16 AM.
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Old 2011-08-07, 04:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
exLupo
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Originally Posted by Senyu View Post
To use this option the sniper must be crouched/prone and must be immobile for 3 seconds.
Is that immobile and then you can strafe to adjust your shot or stay immobile for the duration? A lot of game snipers use a/d strafing to tweak their shots instead of moving the mouse.
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Old 2011-08-07, 04:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #15
Vancha
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Re: Sniper round scaling effectiveness.


Originally Posted by headcrab13 View Post
You probably didn't see it, but the devs already confirmed that one-shot sniper kills were in the game.
One-shot headshots are in the game, and subject to change if they make snipers monstrous in beta.

Edit:
Originally Posted by tjmonk15 View Post
And tbh, this is how it works IRL too. Shooting a sniper at close range does hell a lot of damage, but it doesn't do the maximum damage til the round has traveled a good distance and gained its speed/momentum.
I just wanted to quote this, because wow.

Last edited by Vancha; 2011-08-07 at 04:59 AM.
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