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Old 2012-07-21, 10:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #46
Carnage
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


arrrgghhh... I don't even know what to think... maybe this is, good, maybe this kind of thing needed to happen so the Devs can see it, this kind of issue could have been lost in a real beta because the noob would not have ever reported it, and with thousands of players it may have never come up... idk, and on the other hand if this is not beta and IS a tech test... why does Higby have no hair... from what I hear his hair cut should be "in little more then a week"...

On one side I'm sad I will be waiting another week at least, on the other I think maybe we just need to trust that the devs are doing what they are doing for a good reason and it will benefit all of us in the long run, PS vet, FPS vet and noob MMO player alike...
but I still wonder why Higby has no flowing brown locks is beta starts in a little over a week, this confuses me...
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Old 2012-07-21, 11:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #47
Flaropri
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by TheDAWinz View Post
I am ready for it! Bring it humans!1
You sound more like VS than TR
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Old 2012-07-21, 11:08 PM   [Ignore Me] #48
TheDAWinz
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Flaropri View Post
You sound more like VS than TR
Ehh, I believe in the advancement of the human race by all costs and to eliminate anyone in the way of it in real life, but i want it under our own power and under a secure republic not some xenoscum. i'm a human supremacy dude.
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Old 2012-07-21, 11:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #49
SUBARU
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Aurmanite View Post
The original Planetside had a really steep learning curve and suffered from many of the same problems. If you were new to the game it was difficult to figure out what to do. The HART (shuttle) was not obvious, neither were certification terminals, equipment terminals, saving favorite loadouts, continental/global map, etc. There were some things you simply could not learn on your own.

All that said, the player in that video didn't seem particularly savvy about shooters, and perhaps video games in general. I am certain that the average Battlefield player would have opened the map and looked around. Plus, this dude had a screen telling him what to do, and he just closed it. Although judging by the way he struggled with the word authoritarian, reading might not have been that helpful.
When I first heard about PS1.I read all i could about the game.Then when I got into beta ,I hit all the keys on the key board to see what they did,After that i was good to go. I never have a hard time finding out how to play.Some of thses guys i have seen play ( have seen 3 beta feeds) It looks like they didnt even know what PS2 is.
By letting all the noobs in this early,they will loose them to the game ,because they couldnt see how the game is really played and is all about.The game to them looks like RvR battle grounds.Where you run to flag to flag killing people on the way.
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Old 2012-07-22, 12:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #50
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


Wow. It is true then. I was hoping it wouldnt be the case but it seems like it is.

There is no tutorial for PS2 is there? Yet another game in which the tutorial will be a poorly done job made at the last minute as an afterthought.

Here is an article for any devs reading this. Read it. Use it.
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Old 2012-07-22, 04:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #51
EisenKreutzer
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by TAA View Post
Wow. It is true then. I was hoping it wouldnt be the case but it seems like it is.

There is no tutorial for PS2 is there? Yet another game in which the tutorial will be a poorly done job made at the last minute as an afterthought.
We have no way of knowing wether there will be a tutorial in the game or not at this point, so going off on a tangent like this helps exactly no one.

What we can do, however, is discuss what the tutorial should contain, an how it should be implemented.

I think it is important to discuss this. There will always be players who download the game thinking it is an MORPG with first person shooting, or thinking it is a more traditional FPS, or having no idea what the game is about in any way. It's a F2P game after all, so the bar for getting the game is really low.

As far as I am concerned, the best approach seems to be the Virtual training area. Put the player in an instance, and teach them about controls, vehicle pads and vehicle controls, base capturing and teamwork (VOIP etc.). Make them understand what the core gameplay of Planetside 2 is as early as possible. That way they can see quickly if the game is for them or not, and since the game is free most will try it out for a while before making up their mind completely.
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Old 2012-07-22, 05:28 AM   [Ignore Me] #52
Night
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


There were no vets in PS1 and people could figure out how that worked. Its not rocket science really.

Most threads on this forums smell of bitter people who make up reasons they should be in the tech test.

I am sure there will be enough tooltips and tutorials to make you crazy when you start a new character. 5 minutes after start they will be turned of because they are too obvious.

And as said before. They are testing the tech not the "new player" features.
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Old 2012-07-22, 05:31 AM   [Ignore Me] #53
EisenKreutzer
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Night View Post
And as said before. They are testing the tech not the "new player" features.
Thats not really relevant though.
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Old 2012-07-22, 06:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #54
TAA
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer View Post
As far as I am concerned, the best approach seems to be the Virtual training area. Put the player in an instance, and teach them about controls, vehicle pads and vehicle controls, base capturing and teamwork (VOIP etc.). Make them understand what the core gameplay of Planetside 2 is as early as possible. That way they can see quickly if the game is for them or not, and since the game is free most will try it out for a while before making up their mind completely.
From the link I posted:

Learning Styles
  • Visual learners are those who learn by seeing information. These are the people who would rather read instructions in a book or see charts and tables about the subject than listen to someone talk about it. They tend to say things like "I see your point."
  • Aural learners are those who learn by hearing information. They would rather listen to a lecture than read the information in a text book. They often say things like "That sounds right."
  • Kinetic learners are those who want to be in motion while they are learning. They would rather be up and moving around in front of the whiteboard than sitting at a desk. They might say things like "That doesn't feel right."

Knowledge Acquisition Styles
  • Explorative acquisition people are those learners who learn by taking risks. They are the ones who push every button, and flip every lever. They want to find the risks and experience them.
  • Modeling acquisition players, on the other hand, want to know how something works before they try it. They need to know and understand the risks and ramifications before making the attempt. To do this, modelers want to imitate or "model" their behavior on something or someone they can observe. They want to see what happens when the required activity is done right and they want to see what happens when the required activity is done wrong. Modelers then want to try the activity to ensure they get the same results with the same actions.


A VR environment is only part of what constitutes a tutorial. It needs to have audio components. It needs to have visual indicators of different parts of the HUD. It needs to have AI models acting out the activity first so players can see what to do.


You asked how to first introduce a player to the concepts of the game. Lets see, how is this for some brainstorming:
  1. Player loads game. Trailer for game pops up.
  2. A quick video starts playing that flat out informs the player: "Planetside is a persistent large scale battle fought by thousands of players simultaneously. You will work with your faction to defeat your enemies and seize control of resources which you can use to purchase vehicles and to give your faction an edge in battle. Choose your faction." At which point they are taken to the faction selection screen.
  3. After choosing a faction the player gets launched into a tutorial. They spawn in a hex grid that is a straight copy of an area in the game.
  4. A voice tells the player to step on the blue colored plate to begin a tutorial, or to step on the red colored plate to skip the tutorial. Visual indicators pop up telling the player which keys are bound to movement, and the voice begins guiding the player on how to move (ie. press this key, move the mouse, etc). Making the player step on a plate (or walk through a hologram) already teaches the player that doing that action progresses the tutorial forward.
  5. Three models appear in front of the player, one from each faction. The voice tells the player to recognize his enemies. It starts spilling propaganda about each one (ie. the Vanu are weak and inferior and their lasers cannot hurt your superior armor, etc). As it points out each model big glowing arrows appear over each one to indicate it. Meanwhile the player can shoot or do anything they want. If the player shoots a model they die and a new one appears. If they shoot an enemy they get congratulated, if they shoot a friendly they get warned that they are hurting their faction and that they will get blocked from firing their weapon if they keep doing it. Objective of this section is to teach target recognition. When ready the player can step on the colored plate and move to the next section.
  6. Whenever a tutorial section ends a quick 5 second video appears. A voice tells the player that this is how things will really be on the battlefield. In the case of this first part it would be a video with dozens of players running everywhere and shooting each other. Purpose of quick little videos: keep player interested in tutorial process and make player look forward to the game.
  7. Next they are introduced to the HUD. The voice points out each element, the visual indicators point them out on the HUD, and to emphasize the point AI enemies occasionally take shots at the player. Eg. "this is your shield, notice how it lowers when you are shot, notice how it recharges if you wait a while. This is your map, notice how the enemies appear on it." If the player wants they can just run off and start killing the pathetic AI enemies while going through the tutorial. If they just stand there they can just read and listen to the tutorial.
  8. Next would be base and territory control, and spawn point selection. Quick guide to identifying what needs to be captured, how to capture it, how to identify hot spots on the map and how to spawn onto the hotspots. End it with quick battleground simulation making the player run between two capture points while 200 AI are blowing everything up around them. Nothing fancy, very little chance of dying, just something to give the player a taste of the battle to come.
  9. After that would come a tutorial on vehicles. Let the players spawn whatever vehicles they want and fly them for as long as they want before moving to the next tutorial. After spawning each vehicle voice and visual guides illustrate how to use them. Let the players play around as much as they want with each one. Giving each vehicle a small mission might also be appropriate - eg. fly the Galaxy transport to the next base, take out the enemy tanks, take out the enemy aircraft, etc. End each vehicle with a five second video showing them how different it will be in a huge battle.
  10. Last would be teamwork. Tell a player to follow a squad through some light AI fire. Emphasize the importance of sticking together. When the squad leader dies tell the player to guard the medic reviving him. When a tank shows up tell the player to protect the HA taking out the tank, tell the player to protect the engineer repairing a tank, etc. Finally teach the player how to spawn on a squad leader or on a galaxy transport, how to use voice comms and how to ignore and report abusive players.
  11. Now that the player is ready automatically spawn them in the nearest hotspot of the game. They are ready for some action, so let them have it.


Something like that would be a comprehensive tutorial, and it would make sure people are not completely lost playing the game. Ideally though it would be done much better than that, including a lot of humor. Maybe a training bootcamp for the soldier complete with Full Metal Jacket style drill instructors. Think back to Portal 1. More than half of that game was essentially a tutorial.
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Old 2012-07-22, 06:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #55
Greenthy
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by TAA View Post
From the link I posted:

Learning Styles
  • Visual learners are those who learn by seeing information. These are the people who would rather read instructions in a book or see charts and tables about the subject than listen to someone talk about it. They tend to say things like "I see your point."
  • Aural learners are those who learn by hearing information. They would rather listen to a lecture than read the information in a text book. They often say things like "That sounds right."
  • Kinetic learners are those who want to be in motion while they are learning. They would rather be up and moving around in front of the whiteboard than sitting at a desk. They might say things like "That doesn't feel right."

Knowledge Acquisition Styles
  • Explorative acquisition people are those learners who learn by taking risks. They are the ones who push every button, and flip every lever. They want to find the risks and experience them.
  • Modeling acquisition players, on the other hand, want to know how something works before they try it. They need to know and understand the risks and ramifications before making the attempt. To do this, modelers want to imitate or "model" their behavior on something or someone they can observe. They want to see what happens when the required activity is done right and they want to see what happens when the required activity is done wrong. Modelers then want to try the activity to ensure they get the same results with the same actions.


A VR environment is only part of what constitutes a tutorial. It needs to have audio components. It needs to have visual indicators of different parts of the HUD. It needs to have AI models acting out the activity first so players can see what to do.


You asked how to first introduce a player to the concepts of the game. Lets see, how is this for some brainstorming:
  1. Player loads game. Trailer for game pops up.
  2. A quick video starts playing that flat out informs the player: "Planetside is a persistent large scale battle fought by thousands of players simultaneously. You will work with your faction to defeat your enemies and seize control of resources which you can use to purchase vehicles and to give your faction an edge in battle. Choose your faction." At which point they are taken to the faction selection screen.
  3. After choosing a faction the player gets launched into a tutorial. They spawn in a hex grid that is a straight copy of an area in the game.
  4. A voice tells the player to step on the blue colored plate to begin a tutorial, or to step on the red colored plate to skip the tutorial. Visual indicators pop up telling the player which keys are bound to movement, and the voice begins guiding the player on how to move (ie. press this key, move the mouse, etc). Making the player step on a plate (or walk through a hologram) already teaches the player that doing that action progresses the tutorial forward.
  5. Three models appear in front of the player, one from each faction. The voice tells the player to recognize his enemies. It starts spilling propaganda about each one (ie. the Vanu are weak and inferior and their lasers cannot hurt your superior armor, etc). As it points out each model big glowing arrows appear over each one to indicate it. Meanwhile the player can shoot or do anything they want. If the player shoots a model they die and a new one appears. If they shoot an enemy they get congratulated, if they shoot a friendly they get warned that they are hurting their faction and that they will get blocked from firing their weapon if they keep doing it. Objective of this section is to teach target recognition. When ready the player can step on the colored plate and move to the next section.
  6. Whenever a tutorial section ends a quick 5 second video appears. A voice tells the player that this is how things will really be on the battlefield. In the case of this first part it would be a video with dozens of players running everywhere and shooting each other. Purpose of quick little videos: keep player interested in tutorial process and make player look forward to the game.
  7. Next they are introduced to the HUD. The voice points out each element, the visual indicators point them out on the HUD, and to emphasize the point AI enemies occasionally take shots at the player. Eg. "this is your shield, notice how it lowers when you are shot, notice how it recharges if you wait a while. This is your map, notice how the enemies appear on it." If the player wants they can just run off and start killing the pathetic AI enemies while going through the tutorial. If they just stand there they can just read and listen to the tutorial.
  8. Next would be base and territory control, and spawn point selection. Quick guide to identifying what needs to be captured, how to capture it, how to identify hot spots on the map and how to spawn onto the hotspots. End it with quick battleground simulation making the player run between two capture points while 200 AI are blowing everything up around them. Nothing fancy, very little chance of dying, just something to give the player a taste of the battle to come.
  9. After that would come a tutorial on vehicles. Let the players spawn whatever vehicles they want and fly them for as long as they want before moving to the next tutorial. After spawning each vehicle voice and visual guides illustrate how to use them. Let the players play around as much as they want with each one. Giving each vehicle a small mission might also be appropriate - eg. fly the Galaxy transport to the next base, take out the enemy tanks, take out the enemy aircraft, etc. End each vehicle with a five second video showing them how different it will be in a huge battle.
  10. Last would be teamwork. Tell a player to follow a squad through some light AI fire. Emphasize the importance of sticking together. When the squad leader dies tell the player to guard the medic reviving him. When a tank shows up tell the player to protect the HA taking out the tank, tell the player to protect the engineer repairing a tank, etc. Finally teach the player how to spawn on a squad leader or on a galaxy transport, how to use voice comms and how to ignore and report abusive players.
  11. Now that the player is ready automatically spawn them in the nearest hotspot of the game. They are ready for some action, so let them have it.


Something like that would be a comprehensive tutorial, and it would make sure people are not completely lost playing the game. Ideally though it would be done much better than that, including a lot of humor. Maybe a training bootcamp for the soldier complete with Full Metal Jacket style drill instructors. Think back to Portal 1. More than half of that game was essentially a tutorial.
That'd be actually a pretty nice tutorial
Alot of modern games have a tutorial in this sence, the 2003 text-baloon methods are outdated
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Old 2012-07-22, 07:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #56
LtHolmes
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


I mentioned this before but I totally agree that there need to be something to help the newbies.

I think the most efficient way is to make the mandatory screens.. things like intro video or pop up text more on the minimal side. A dev could spend quite a lot of time on a video or put a tremendous amount of text in pop ups if they truly wanted you to understand most of the game.

On top of that even if a dev did put up those types of things a player only will learn if he or she wants to do so. It is really not efficient to waste all that time or whatever on someone who does not even care and skips it.

So for the players who want to learn I think that the tribes version is quite good. Have a minimal upfront tutorial in the beginning and put all the more detailed tutorials in a library. These videos would be almost like watching a fraps/cinematographic video of the dev explaining a tactic, map usage, terminals, bases.. whatever they want. You could access these online or in game.

As far as the VR room. I don't have much comment bc I did not use it often in the first one. I think people should be able to shoot in the base area and out from the base area if they want. Just make it apparent that there are harsh penalties for TK.
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Old 2012-07-22, 07:29 AM   [Ignore Me] #57
Sikee Atric
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Carnage View Post
but I still wonder why Higby has no flowing brown locks is beta starts in a little over a week, this confuses me...
Because they'll have gone grey?

Tooltips, a tutorial, maybe even a 'Welcome Video....' All these things should, and hopefully will be added as the beta progresses, but for now the real cause of the Beta is to actually test the gameplay in an enviroment where the vast majority of players should have some idea of what is going on....

I've only played PS1 a few times and I'm going into PS2 as a noob, but I'm hoping there will be plenty of veterans there who can actually lead units and I'll be happy as a grunt for now. I know a few military tactics and I hope by the end of the beta I'll be more confident and able to offer some guides and feedback for the Outfit, with the intention of making my way up their ranks.

Hell, on launch day I might even make some Youtube Guides, with the aim of getting other noobs into the game.

In reality, the problem is when you have people who don't actually do any research into the game they are trying. Personally, I read a review or two and get an idea if I want to try before I buy, or just bite the bullet and go for it. But other noobs will be stupid enough to skip that part, then you get the pillocks....

Last edited by Sikee Atric; 2012-07-22 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 2012-07-22, 07:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #58
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


"Hi, is this Plantside, the massively-multiplayer farming simulator ?"

"Wow, nice tractor you have there."

"This isn't the way turnips are sown..."

Last edited by Griffevent; 2012-07-22 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 2012-07-22, 08:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #59
Littleman
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


As much as it goes against the meat of Planetside 2, if you look at Battlefield 3's campaign, it's essentially a really well camoflauged tutorial for the most part. You're introduced to movement, aiming, and shooting in the first train sequence alone and nothing in that area is complicated or confusing - the player just moves forward through the level shooting bad guys that can't possibly flank him.

If you think even further back, Tribes 2's campaign was very much the same way: a glorified tutorial.

However, I will admit setting up a training seminar within an instance of the world would probably be less time consuming. Pop ups don't work unless they're purpose is to be intrusive and annoying and generally something to avoid like the plague such as friendly fire. Look at Greenthy's post for reference on what to do. Making it sound like a boot camp with someone going over the basics with both audio information and interactive visual examples would best keep a gamer's attention. If people want to learn about the game by reading the info, they'll likely have done their research on the game before or while downloading it.
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Old 2012-07-22, 10:24 AM   [Ignore Me] #60
Hamma
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Re: Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2


The mission system among other game systems will eventually solve the issue of new players figuring out what/how to do things. That stuff simply is not in the game yet.
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