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Old 2013-03-04, 11:05 AM   [Ignore Me] #181
Frozenland
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


OMG the lattice system was really great and I really like that they are going to re-implement it in PS2. This will make the gameplay and flow much better!
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Old 2013-03-04, 11:07 AM   [Ignore Me] #182
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


Originally Posted by Frozenland View Post
OMG the lattice system was really great and I really like that they are going to re-implement it in PS2. This will make the gameplay and flow much better!
Well not the lattice, but something similar
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Old 2013-03-04, 11:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #183
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
It all ending on a red section does kinda feel like a number of dead ends. This might be down to how Indar is designed (currently) with the canyons all ending at the gate itself. Of course, if you can pass through the warpgates at some point or it becomes neutral or capturable, then that "dead end, must hold end point against all odds cause we can't move on" is going to feel different (but as long as the gate has fixed allegiance, those territories will probably be seen as too hard to control near the ends). So I wonder if having "split-plugs" there could work or even one major base just outside the gate to control the adjecent territory ("end-plug", like any base in such a line would be a "plug" or choke point that could slow down advances by good defense).
For some reason the end of this paragraph made me think of the board game sorry.

Anyways in my opinion and speculation, it seems that this system would also help set up the addition to the home continents later on down the line(whenever that is...) Even though its not the traditional lattice system, It does look to help improve the flow of battle just a bit more rather then having the zerg roam around mindlessly like they currently do.
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Old 2013-03-04, 11:27 AM   [Ignore Me] #184
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


I liked the video that noble posted, the idea for neutral hex system would improve battles across all three continents. The gal drop might start getting popular again, instead of just being used on Amerish. I remember the developers saying they wanted to do it this way to create bigger and better battles, but with the front line being so spread out battles are small and short lived. Well unless you’re at the crown. I think by making these bottle necks, battles will be more epic, and like he said in the video, leaders will see strategic attacks points and opp’s will actually start to mean something again. I mean granted it’s not a gen bust or a base drain, but hey it’s a start. As a outfit commander (when I’m not changing diapers or making bottles) a lot of the newer guys don’t want to lead opps because there really isn’t a lot to lead to, we can hack side bases outside the zergs influence but that means less fighting and more standing around watching Moogy pop smoke grenades I really hope they consider this system and if not at least come up with something similar. And I promise I want say anything about PS1 mechanics, and how they worked in the first place, I promise
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Old 2013-03-04, 12:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #185
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Guys please don't confuse the video posted with what Malorn is testing.

Similar but I didn't think its the same thing
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Old 2013-03-04, 01:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #186
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


Originally Posted by psijaka View Post
Like what I see, making the hex system take account of natural barriers to produce "supply lines" is a much better way forward than an artificial lattice.
The question I have is.... can we cut the supply lines? If the adjacency rules still apply... why bother having the supply lines? I understand being able to cut off Tawrich by capping the outer points of it, but what about being able to cut it off by capping stronghold, etc.

I think if they do the following, they need to implement generators, or supply depots or something that indicates being able to cut off the supply line inside a base. Give something for spec ops to be able to drop or infiltrators, etc.

I'm not saying to allow you to cap the backline base... but to just disable the supply route. With the multiple supply lines to the front lines in the example, it would require organized spec ops with multiple groups in order to complete it.... but it would definitely be something for the smaller outfits to work towards and organize for.

Example: in the screenshot provided:

Squad A: disables Valley storage Yard
Squad B: disables Old Auraxium Mines

This cuts off the northern front from being provided resources and would require a squad or two to go resecure. There needs to be a good indication that supply lines have been cut... maybe grey them out like the Tawrich area.
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Old 2013-03-04, 01:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #187
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


Originally Posted by MurderBunneh View Post
One thing I hate and seems like it would take minimal effort to change is making it so the cap does not advance if there is nobody on it.
At least then the guys going around ghost capping would have to actually cap the base and sit there instead of flipping it and flying to the next one.
They had that in beta, it didn't really solve the problem of ghost capping and felt artificial as hell.
IMO ghost capping should never be encouraged. What I view as a 'big brother' version of ghost capping, the drain, would be a great addition to the game. Mainly in that it took longer than a simple hack/llu run and made the base available to all three empires.
It'll be a while until things like NTU, Gens and drains to be put in but I think lattice 2.0 with accompining mechanics such as continental conquest will be a great benefit.
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Old 2013-03-04, 02:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #188
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


I do like the idea of adding more flow and predictability onto the map, but I think this current iteration may go a little too far. Granted, I obviously haven't played it and its not yet finished, I think this may bottleneck people a little too much and I think that there are other ways we can influence flow and improve the arrangement of battles without resorting to the same level of simplicity of the lattice system from Planetside 1.

I think neutral hexes and "rush ways" could certainly be a role, and this is a rather extraordinary case in that the image was taken of a congested area near a warpgate. I hope bases and outposts in more open, contested areas are more connected and web-like, rather than spot his more simplistic series of linear paths.

I doubt I need to inform Malorn et al about how other factors will need to be implemented. I like the idea of resource attrition that the one YouTube video someone posted, though it may be less feasible in that iteration with how this new hex system works out. I just shudder at the thought of some areas like the Crown or Quartz Ridge on Indar choking off a whole route with no attrition factoring in. An ANT system could work well here.

I think we would also need to improve incentives for smaller outposts so that their fights are more meaningful, and adding ways that the incentives provided by owned bases could be disabled by an opposing force, even behind enemy lines. And also, fix the galaxy. I don't know about you guys, but I've been in a galaxy maybe 5 or 6 times since beta, when we had the overpowered spawn gal. It really needs a buff so that it will bring back that special mobility element that, for me, really helped define Planetside. We'd need that if we want to make this lattice system work without constraining flow too much.
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This is the last VIP post in this thread.   Old 2013-03-04, 02:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #189
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


The prototype we are working on does not include any resource changes. Resource revamp is on the roadmap though, currently listed in the May timeframe.

Feedback is welcome, so if you have thoughts on how best to integrate a meaningful resource system into this design feel free to share.
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Old 2013-03-04, 02:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #190
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
The prototype we are working on does not include any resource changes. Resource revamp is on the roadmap though, currently listed in the May timeframe.

Feedback is welcome, so if you have thoughts on how best to integrate a meaningful resource system into this design feel free to share.
Its not just that mate, without an extra layer of strategy which gives small units something to do, bar be a tentacle of the zerg. You have to admit there are serious grounds for concern. I'm sure there's magical stuff going on behind the curtain and all, but I can only go on what I've seen. What I've seen, screams "zergfest or go home" to me. For large outfits and causal players, that's great. Kills the game if you fancy doing something a bit more strategic as my lot kinda do.

Resource revamp

Basic idea and its not entirely my own. We all stand the on shoulders of giants etc. Call it the DL Plan if it must be called anything.

All bases to some extent generate 'Raw' resources, which go towards warpgate (or whatever) in raw format, through pipelines, several points these come above the ground (there are several all ready so makes the job easier in terms of mapping) that can be destroyed/repaired depending on who you are (i.e in your own territory, you can't destroy them, too open to abuse), every tick so many resources go through them. Importantly there should be several 'nodes' throughout the map where these converge, getting more convergent and thus more important the closer you get to WG, thus taking one out deeper in enemy territory = greater effect. Hell why not have existing AMP stations as convergence points.

What comes out of WG (or have a refinery at the WG, whatever) - comes out 'ready to use' nannite format, as the raw material for all vehicles and importantly, player spawns. Have to be transported in something like ANTs (player or AI controlled), to bases in order for them to be able to actively spawn vehicles and units. Make these a single resource or split them up into player, vehicle and air. Undecided.

It also works if you switch them around, raw resources only by trucks, nannites by pipeline. Whatever. But it makes it more dynamic if you in some sense have to engage with both. Gotta defend the pipelines and defend/drive the trucks. A second level of stuff to attack/defend across the entire map. A logistic network. And the more effort and better defended your side manages to keep your logistics network, measurably easier to play the normal pew-pew take the point part of the game. Likewise, the better you attack your enemies, the weaker they get on the battlefield.

Especially if fights for bases are going to reduce to zergs whamming into each other, little subtle changes as a result of smaller battles behind the lines, will effect these battles.

Also for all those pilots complaining, hunt/defend the trucks and bomb/fly CAP around the logistics nodes, becomes the new fun thing to do away from all that nasty AA.

Very small stock trickle in both directions as default. Successfully defending pipelines and nannite transport vehicles to and from bases, drastically more efficient.

Furthermore incentivise this with plenty of certs/murdercash/learninpoints and you'll find people happily guarding nodes and driving/defending the trucks.

Tada. Metagame.

More to come, but that's the barebones of it.

Last edited by Lord Mondando; 2013-03-04 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 2013-03-04, 04:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #191
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


While I commend the devs to finally putting something in the test bed that may help localize the zergs into larger fights an minimalize ghosthacking.

I'd like to hopefully suggest, that with the more constrained (LAttice) approach to hex capturing. That the devs may consider a few options.

A) Addition of more capture points, possibly 2 spawn barracks as well terminals (vehicle/equipment) per Hex territory. Make the capture points significantly distanced from one another, ie 200m-300m apart. To help foster a more flowing ground battle for the territory, instead of a single clump of forces around the capture points (ie vehicle camp)


B) Break up the existing hex territories adding more territories for capture.


C) Territory Zones. Each TZ would be a pocket of 4-6 territories utilizing the current adjacency system formula. These TZs would act as gateway to major facilities, full capture of a TZ opens the doorway to attacking a Major Facility? As well they act as defensive points to protecting Major Facilities.


D) Add a linking territory that can allow a lateral attack between the linear routes?
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Old 2013-03-04, 04:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #192
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
The prototype we are working on does not include any resource changes. Resource revamp is on the roadmap though, currently listed in the May timeframe.

Feedback is welcome, so if you have thoughts on how best to integrate a meaningful resource system into this design feel free to share.
Could you ask the bigwigs if you could post a full map of Indar using this new Lattice-like connection system ?

It would be really good to see a larger picture in order to think of metagame additions once we can see the entire map and see how it would play out ?

At the moment all we see is the South east corner.

Let us help you guys by discussing the pros and cons, as you can see from this thread, it's not a bandwagon, but rather people discussing everything maturely so would be a good place to start looking at this.

I want to talk about resource revamp being incorporated into this, but I need to see how the rest of the map looks (to see how all other bases are connected, hence my request.
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Old 2013-03-04, 04:53 PM   [Ignore Me] #193
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
The prototype we are working on does not include any resource changes. Resource revamp is on the roadmap though, currently listed in the May timeframe.

Feedback is welcome, so if you have thoughts on how best to integrate a meaningful resource system into this design feel free to share.
I think for a start a global resource system would encourage people to visit different continents more. Maybe even tie the territory control into the +XP% modifier in a way.

Also (though currently minor would be more prevalent with changed resources):
i don't like being "forced" to fight at certain locations because i prefer some resources over others. So how about to split resource gain into all three types per hex? Emphasis could still be put on one of them, but it wouldn't be "worthless" to fight there for some (Might even think about just merging all three resource types into one actually).
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Old 2013-03-04, 04:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #194
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez View Post
I think for a start a global resource system would encourage people to visit different continents more. Maybe even tie the territory control into the +XP% modifier in a way.

Also (though currently minor would be more prevalent with changed resources):
i don't like being "forced" to fight at certain locations because i prefer some resources over others. So how about to split resource gain into all three types per hex? Emphasis could still be put on one of them, but it wouldn't be "worthless" to fight there for some (Might even think about just merging all three resource types into one actually).
No no no I like your idea of having each "Base" give all 3 resources, so that people stop favouring certain bases over others due to the resources they provide, but I dont agree we should band them all together into one resource because right now its good to know what you can do with each.

Although, Having them all as one resource means if you say pull Loads of MBTs, you can't turn around and jump into an ESF when you run out of Mechanical resources, but do you want to restrict players like that ?
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Old 2013-03-04, 05:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #195
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Re: new lattice tweet from higby


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
The prototype we are working on does not include any resource changes. Resource revamp is on the roadmap though, currently listed in the May timeframe.

Feedback is welcome, so if you have thoughts on how best to integrate a meaningful resource system into this design feel free to share.
I'll admit, I was skeptical of lattice, but this looks quite promising! (Added bonus, makes navigating on the ground a ton easier.)

Very much looking forward to seeing this in live.
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