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Old 2004-08-19, 03:33 AM   [Ignore Me] #16
Peacemaker
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There is a problem with a players ability to see cloakers with or without darklight on. Darklight is too easy to use in my opinion, and I dont even cloak. Now there is DEFINATLY something going on with some users in this game though. The other night Lunarwarrior managed to get ONTOP of the lockers in one of the rec rooms and went afk. He came back about 5 min later to see the whole base CRAWLING with enemys. One came down the stairs ran right up to him and blasted him in the face. He had NOT moved in those five minutes and the guy did not switch on darklight (hell he JUST spawned too). I used to cloak occasionaly but now I find it too frustrating. I have had the same experience. JH whore comes out of no where runs up to you and blasts you with NO dark light and you havnt moved in a minute and a half. Something is wrong with someones gamma.
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Old 2004-08-19, 03:51 AM   [Ignore Me] #17
Warborn
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Darklight is fine, the problem is the role that cloakers have. They should not be something you want in a big firefight except for what they're capable of doing now. There really isn't a lot of room for stealth in this game aside from stuff like hacking, boomering, and scouting. Until there is a valuable role for cloakers to fill, they will always seem secondary and ineffective, because they are secondary and ineffective.

Personally, I think there should be areas around the bases that are hackable and control different things, like hacking panels near phalanx turrets that, when hacked, disable them temporarily. Or things that can knock out lattice benefits for a couple minutes, or vehicle terminals, or base power (albeit very briefly). There has to be more that capitalizes on stealth, so that cloakers can contribute to a battle without forcing grunts to fight invisible shit that just strafes around them holding down the fire button for their AMP. Give them a real role and they'll be fine.
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Old 2004-08-19, 09:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #18
Real Mulambo
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I think the cloakers should just stop whining.

I use DL and don't flicker unless suspicions aroused.
I get killed by plenty cloakers and I kill plenty to.
Hang on.........does that mean...................No..surely not..........balanced?
Assholes
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Old 2004-08-19, 09:24 AM   [Ignore Me] #19
Sputty
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cough*jammers*cough

Seriously, it's not hard to throw a jammer or two in before you run in
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Old 2004-08-19, 10:35 AM   [Ignore Me] #20
Boomer
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Originally Posted by Real Mulambo
I think the cloakers should just stop whining.

I use DL and don't flicker unless suspicions aroused.
I get killed by plenty cloakers and I kill plenty to.
Hang on.........does that mean...................No..surely not..........balanced?
Assholes
1) We are not whining. We are complaining.
2) We are not assholes, you nooblet.
3) It all depends on if you think "Balanced" Is. someone flicking on darklight out of randomness, just seeing you, then flicking it on again, then blasting your unarmed self with HA. I mean its hard enough to be an infiltraitor without People beingn able to use Darklight. That is not balanced or fair. And dont tell me it never happends, because it happends about 2 times a day.

As I said before, I am a good cloaker, but I just dont have time to pull out a jammer (If I even have one, because REK + ACEx2 + Pistol + Ammo takes up all of my inventory), and hit the guy within the 3 seconds it takes to A) Realize he had DL on. then B) Actually throw the grenade at him. All before he takes those shots.

Now, I usually find myself running away, and placing boomers/spitfires behind me, and I usually win. Unfortunately, I am of low rank right now And all I have IS darklight. Yes, I have Darklight. Ironic eh? Well I have it for a good reason. Other cloakers. They make me paranoid. But, If I see a cloaker sitting there Afk, and I flash on DL, I do not kill him. I just leave him alone, only for one of my own to DL flash him and fill him full of JH shells.

When did I say Rexo's are noobs? I never said that. I said that the Rexo flasher who "owns" you with his Lasher or MCG or JH and calls you a "Noob" and sends you /tells like "Pwned man! You noob! Wow you suck! Must be your unlucky day! OMFG I OWN!" Is a noob. And deserves to be wiped off the face of Auraxis, ishudar, oshur, searhus, and all the new stupid planets. They need to go play halo so that I can own them with my pistol.

Now I get idiotic tells like that almost everytime I am HA pwned by a Rexo. But what do they say when I own a fully healthy Rexo who has Darklight with my Magscatter? The whine. "Cloakers are overpowered" Then they go to the Devs, whine, whine, whine, whine some more, and eventually cloaking becomes less and less appealing.

My point, is to offer a solution, that I thought was pretty reasonable. I especially like that with "advanced stealthing" They DL user has to have DL focused on you for 4-5 seconds to fully see you. That would solve DL flashing. That would balance.

Another thing that just came to my attention yesterday, is that Alot of cloakers DO whine. I saw a cloaker from about 1000 yds away when he was being a stupid idiot and running while throwing grenades, and I snuck up to him, knifed him without the implant, then recieved hate tells until I reported him and added him to my fairly lengthy ignore list. some Newbish cloakers DO complain. But the fact that I saw him from 1000 yds away needs to be fixed. I dont see how that is fair.

BlaH BlaH BlaH BlaH you can call me a whiner but I think I am quite the opposite. Please post comments realating to the original post.

Last edited by Boomer; 2004-08-19 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 2004-08-19, 10:38 AM   [Ignore Me] #21
Cauldron Borne
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Like i said before:

Get rid of DLV 3rd Person (it IS an EYE implant) and flickering (c'mon, i can't even turn on/off adv regen that fast). Do this, and the good cloakers will be happy. If you have to leave DLV on for even THREE SECONDS or maybe FIVE then it will at least have a negative side to it's use.


I've cloaked full time since release. I've had CE since before release. I can get 4-5 kills on a life while cloaking, but i still find it annoying that people randomly flicker DLV as they walk through the halls. I can speak from experience. It does happen. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does. And EVERYONE (or almost everyone) uses the 3rd person dlv thing. kinda lame that you can use an eye implant in third person.
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Old 2004-08-19, 10:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #22
Boomer
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Originally Posted by Cauldron Borne
Like i said before:

Get rid of DLV 3rd Person (it IS an EYE implant) and flickering (c'mon, i can't even turn on/off adv regen that fast). Do this, and the good cloakers will be happy. If you have to leave DLV on for even THREE SECONDS or maybe FIVE then it will at least have a negative side to it's use.


I've cloaked full time since release. I've had CE since before release. I can get 4-5 kills on a life while cloaking, but i still find it annoying that people randomly flicker DLV as they walk through the halls. I can speak from experience. It does happen. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does. And EVERYONE (or almost everyone) uses the 3rd person dlv thing. kinda lame that you can use an eye implant in third person.
Amen. But you dont think that this would help at all? It sure would add a negative to Darklight, without touching it. And it would also make to role of an infiltrator more appeling.
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Old 2004-08-19, 10:43 AM   [Ignore Me] #23
Madcow
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Originally Posted by Warborn
Darklight is fine, the problem is the role that cloakers have. They should not be something you want in a big firefight except for what they're capable of doing now. There really isn't a lot of room for stealth in this game aside from stuff like hacking, boomering, and scouting. Until there is a valuable role for cloakers to fill, they will always seem secondary and ineffective, because they are secondary and ineffective.
My best run was 74 kills before I got taken out, using ACEs (spitfires only, no boomers), a knife and looted pistols and never once returning to base for healing or inventory. All outside the same tower, all within 45 minutes. The run was actually ended by Jaged. This was before a lot of the bugginess we currently experience. Tell me again about a cloaker's role. A cloaker's role is whatever niche they find, and that doesn't necessarily = constant support or hacking. I do those things, they are a part of what I do. I don't feel secondary or ineffective except when I see the issues in the game that need addressing which are ignored by Devs. Talking about the 'role' of a cloaker comes across as incredibly ill informed. Maybe you should talk to Boomer, he's in your outfit.

Originally Posted by Real Mulambo
I think the cloakers should just stop whining.

I use DL and don't flicker unless suspicions aroused.
I get killed by plenty cloakers and I kill plenty to.
Hang on.........does that mean...................No..surely not..........balanced?
Assholes
You are such an asshat. Seriously. So far from you I've seen nothing but gameplay ideas, and then insults when people don't embrace them. If you think it's balanced, I know something's wrong.

Originally Posted by Sputty
cough*jammers*cough

Seriously, it's not hard to throw a jammer or two in before you run in
Must we address that again? Inventory space = premium. We have 1 holster slot and switching to jammer will often take too long to be realistic. We can't afford to waste a 3x3 spot for a 2x2 piece of inventory. Want to give us another holster slot? Then we'll talk.
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Old 2004-08-19, 10:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #24
Boomer
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Originally Posted by Madcow
My best run was 74 kills before I got taken out, using ACEs (spitfires only, no boomers), a knife and looted pistols and never once returning to base for healing or inventory. All outside the same tower, all within 45 minutes. The run was actually ended by Jaged. This was before a lot of the bugginess we currently experience. Tell me again about a cloaker's role. A cloaker's role is whatever niche they find, and that doesn't necessarily = constant support or hacking. I do those things, they are a part of what I do. I don't feel secondary or ineffective except when I see the issues in the game that need addressing which are ignored by Devs. Talking about the 'role' of a cloaker comes across as incredibly ill informed. Maybe you should talk to Boomer, he's in your outfit.
Well, I Dont cloak that much anymore with my Main, which is BoomerTR. I am starting to hate the Enclave more and more. But they are one of the only outfits that does organized Gal drops like every one should.

As for most kills, hmmm. Probable 134 killd on test, when I was mining a tower on extinction. I looted the Beamer (best pistol in teh w0rld!!!111) and used it to get about 30 kills from on top of the mountain, (Which I got up using surge, so noone could get up there to kill me.) Then I just used plasma grenades. I escaped All the Dl users, Killed about 60 Rexos, 15 cloakers, and about 5 magriders and Prowlers. Then I went and camped the WG, chased enemies out of it, knifed them. I hacked about 5 enemy vehicles, not including the 6 AMS's I hacked, then decon'd. i think I got the most kills form my mines, but The only reason I did was because I lowered their health with the beamer / grenades.

I will loot a beamer any day. Better then the repeater IMO.
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Old 2004-08-19, 11:07 AM   [Ignore Me] #25
Madcow
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I love both the Beamer and Repeater, but mostly because when you use them against their own armies they go unnoticed. I used to love the MagScatter, but since all the rexo changes and incentive changes it's just not as effective as it used to be.
I use ACEs for spitfires more than anything else. The spitfire is great to get kills if you have interlink, otherwise it's perfect for distracting your prey long enough to knife them. The vast majority of my kills are with the knife. I actually had one guy bitch at me for using melee boost because it wasn't fair (he'd killed me using Dark Light in a random flicker earlier). I responded that I used a weapon which was loud enough to give away my position and that I still needed to hit him twice from point blank range, so maybe he should rethink what was fair.

The Enclave's gal drops are very nice. It sure beats the hell out of the complete disorganization that all of NC has had the last few nights.
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Old 2004-08-19, 11:35 AM   [Ignore Me] #26
Red October
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I'm a cloaker and there IS a problem with DL.

1) There are days when it seems everyone and thier mother has DL. What do I do? Switch out to Agile w/ my grunt set up. Extreme measure do to extreme over usage. Why cloak when everyone is going to see you anyway?

2) I use DL as a cloaker specifically to hunt down other cloakers! Chances are they won't have it and all I have to do is hang around recently hacked towers, bases, entrances and fliker it on and off and sooner or later, me gets another kill.

3) People only flicker it on and off when something looks suspicious? Thats a truck load of bull shit. I have seen more occasions than I can count where a zerg (or small squad) will head towards a base or tower and the first thing that happens? People with DL turn it on and start looking around tree's, rocks and other obstructions (hell, I even do it myself....as a cloaker). I actually have changed my tactics to just crouching right out in the middle of the open (and hope I don't get ran over)....but as of late, more and more people are turning it on out in the open. Running out of tactics and ideas quick...

4) #3 brings up my other point...why should a cloaker have to hide behind tree's? That in itself should tell you something. He should be able to stop, crouch and no one see him.

5) How often do you see a CC gaurded by one guy with DL? Quite often, everyone else is outside of it in case of troops...but only one guy w/ DL? That not only tells you how easy it is to take down a cloaker, but its also an insult.

6) This point is unrelated to DL, but it happens more than you think. Enemies running right past me like nothing is there, then one guy w/o DL walks up and blasts you...WTF?! Sony!

The role of a cloaker keeps getting reduced...more and more. Thats why you "see" us out there looking for sheep that strayed from the main flock so often. We can't hack into bases or tower's easily anymore...like I said, you only need one guy with DL to gaurd the CC. Granted getting rid of DL will only make cloakers completely overpowered. You don't want us on the battlefield...but we've been forced onto it against our will.

My suggestions:

1) Give us more items to hack. Allow us to hack spitfire's, motion sensors and mines if you have CE.

2) Give BEP for hacking if your in an infiltration suit (50 BEP and up if enemies in building...but only if your in an inf suit).

3) Before you jack a vech, have a secondary mode on the REK that allows you to just deconstruct the vech w/ half the time to hack. Or even allow to jack a stationary occupied vech (with longer hack time of course).

4) Allow us to hack spawn tubes with a time limit (just like equip terms).

5) Allow the secondary mode on a REK to basically disable Equip, Vech and Med terminals for everyone. Just like blowing it to smithereans w/o the boom. Engineer or Hacker can fix it.

6) Give us a second holster. We need a small fighting chance. When you catch us with a REK in hand...you caught us with our pants down.

Everything I mentioned above will give more reasons for a cloaker to hack instead looking for weak guys, afk, etc on the edge of battle. The other option is to mess around with everyone's coveted DL.

1) Make it a 2 slot cost implant. Make someone actually think about getting something else.

2) Shorten the range...but this really doesnt help much. Just forces a person to make a longer scan. Once they get a glimpse of you...they no which direction to spam shoot...and its pretty easy to kill a cloaker.

I personally don't like the option w/ messing around with DL...afterall, I'm a user of it too. But, giving cloakers more options beside going after someone on the battlefield I'm all for.
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Old 2004-08-19, 11:43 AM   [Ignore Me] #27
Lartnev
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1) Too easy imo
2) Not really fair on people who use sneaky tactics without an infil suit (IT CAN BE DONE )
3) Interesting, especially the idea about jacking stationary vehicles. Flail hacking anyone?
4) Don't particularly like that idea
5) Sounds promising
6) We'll see what the merit man brings.

1) Too Extreme
2) Yeah, I'm all for shortening the range, means people have to keep it on longer when sweeping corridors etc.
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Old 2004-08-19, 11:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #28
DeepStrikeck
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I am a rexo sniper (VS Markov) and I have DL, I hardly ever "flicker" and I only do that when I'm running through a base and suspect a cloaker (spits being planted, repeater/magscatter kills, etc). When I'm sniping I only use DL to scan the area right when I arrive and I switch positions so frequently (about every 10 shots) that I don't get killed by cloakers that often. With the 3rd person dl, its kinda retarded and I dont use it because its hard as hell to aim when in 3rd person. Its just easier to use it in FPV.
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Old 2004-08-19, 11:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #29
JetRaiden
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Screw jammers, once you get to CR3 EMP is all you'll need on the field. you could EMP a courtyard and walk right in as far as anyone is concerned.
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Old 2004-08-19, 12:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #30
Madcow
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Idea #3 is freaking brilliant. Flails as well as tanks parked outside towers, you jack it and it forces them out of their own vehicle. If it has a long amount of time necessary (and jacking is already painfully long) it would be hard for people to complain. Vehicles shouldn't be stationary that long, and giving some sort of cost for not being aware of your surroundings is nice.

I also think we should be allowed to hack phalanx turrets, and that if you hack it you should be able to then heal it and save some base drain. Plus, there are a handful of times when I've been forgotten on a base wall that it would have been perfect to turn their turrets against them. I usually end up wandering around looking for an abandoned tank I can use against them.
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