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Old 2002-12-23, 09:48 AM   [Ignore Me] #61
Zatrais
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depends on the person using the max... but yeah standing still toe on toe whit another max in a tight corridor will cause the VS to loose.... but you're doing something wrong if you're standing still hehe
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Old 2002-12-23, 10:22 AM   [Ignore Me] #62
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if anyone has played mechassault use your knowledge from there. the smallest mechs can totally own the biggest one. this is because manueverability. perfect example, really!
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Old 2002-12-23, 10:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #63
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Mechassault is so sickeningly unbalanced, I don't think it's a vary good comparison. Try taking down a Mad Cat in an Uller, or a Couger. Hell, the Kit Fox packs a nasty punch, and you have to be a significantly better pilot than any idiot in a Ragnarok/Ymir/Mad Cat/Timberwolf/Atlas/Prometheus/Thor/Summoner to even have a chance at taking them down.

For example: An Uller needs about 84 shots with its strongest weapon to drop a Mad Cat - the Mad Cat needs 3 to drop the Uller.

Don't mean to pull this too far off topic, but I hardly think that it's a good comparison. Besides, a MAX may flat-out own the other ground pounders -- we won't really have any idea how that balance is struck until we play.
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Old 2002-12-23, 10:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #64
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But this is more like a Medium mech with good weapons against a light mech with jump jets. If you are better then you win, its still even in most situations.

The MAXs aren't really for dueling. Everyone seems to bring up MAX vs MAX examples. These MAXs are used to fulfill certain objectives. Sure they might encounter eachother sometimes but you aren't going to go around and see heavies dueling everywhere. The Vanu MAXs jets are going to be very handy for certain situations and by no means is it overrated at all. The TR and NC ones will be very good at other situations. Once again they are situational armors and they aren't as versatile in combat as other ones. The main test is to see how they pan out in combat and the only way we'll get to see how effective they are in combat is by playing the game. Hopefully that's soon.
I totally agree with BLuE_ZeRO. I can't stand when people *ONLY* use their worst-case scenarios to defend their point. Sometimes the worst-case scenario is the best example, such as with these MAXs, but at least look at other points to even it out.

I believe that the MAXs will be quite even in an open field because the MAXs will have backup appropraite to their weaknesses (hopefully). Even inside they will only be at a small disadvantage because a VS MAX can simply run for the nearest large room and use that like they would the outdoors.

The TR MAX will surely camp chokepoints and the NC MAX will be on the front line sponging all of the damage while the big weapons fire from behind. And the VS MAX will jump base walls and create havoc inside bases. Thats what they're good at, thats what they'll do. (at least, I hope)
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Old 2002-12-23, 01:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #65
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Duritz,

I agree with you in theory, but I still think the concept of balance in Mechassault is so far out of whack that it's just impossible to make a fair comparison to PS.

I had a couple slightly different roles in mind, though.

As for the VS, I can definitely see a team of them really rasing some hell, flanking a base and the like. I still think they'd be meat against another MAX in the open, though, and let's face it -- you're in a TR/NC MAX, and see a couple VS troops one way, and a VS MAX the other - who's gonna be your primary target? MAX vs. MAX will happen, and it'll happen quite often.

I think the TR MAX is going to be more of a fire support role, though. Camping chokepoints would definitely be their forte, but I doubt anyone's going to want to get a MAX so they can sit around and wait for someone to come to them. I can see them digging in just behind the spearhead, though, and laying down obscene amounts of cover fire.

As for the NC MAX, I'm still up in the air. I guess it depends on exactly how variable that choke is on the A-I MAX. They seem very versatile, though... I get the impression the A-I MAX will be able to go from heavy assault to fire support quite comfortably. I have my reservations about the other NC MAXes, though, as I've heard they can't fire without lock, and that'd make them useless a large part of the time.
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Old 2002-12-23, 01:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #66
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Other NC maxes don't need a lock... they just do less dmg whitout a lock than whit a lock...

and i still don't buy it that TR/NC maxes will kill VS in the open that easily... i highly doubt that the VS max will have so much less armor that it can't take on other maxes in the open whit an equal chance to win

slightly less armor dosn't mean paperthin to me hehe
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Old 2002-12-23, 02:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #67
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No no no Zatrais. They played the game, they know that the VS MAX won't be able to stand toe to toe with the other 2. I mean what kind of stupid dev team would make things balanced?!?

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Old 2002-12-23, 03:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #68
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about the mechassault balance thing - i dunno about you guys but when i play single player destruction (1 on 1 duels with progressively harder mechs) i got soooo far in my kit fox and in xbox live i see players tear everything up with the smallest of small mechs. it ALL comes down to the skill of the player. no exaggeration with that statement either.
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Old 2002-12-23, 03:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #69
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diluted, have you even played on Xbox Live? A good 80% of the players out there use the Mad Cat. The Timberwolf, Thor, Atlas, Mad Dog and Ragnarok are somewhat common, then you've got that rare guy in a light 'mech. At least a third of the 'mechs in the game are nearly unplayable in multiplayer (i.e. Uller), and another third of them are playable but still absolute garbage (Puma, Vulture) compared to the top-tier 'mechs (Mad Cat, Ragnarok). And I don't care HOW good you are - any newbie that just picked up the game could get in a Mad Cat and take out the best pilot around in an Uller. The only 'mechs in that game that feel even remotely "balanced" are the Thor, Catapult, Atlas, and Uziel.

Anyway, Dio, I'm not suggesting the devs would deliberately gimp the VS MAX - I DEFINITELY think it'll have its strengths. I just don't think it'll be able to take the NC or TR MAXes in a firefight. With adequate cover, sure, my money would be on the VS MAX as long as it could hit and fade. But in an open (thinking an outdoor area with sparse cover, like a lot of the screenshots portray), I get the impression that it will be lacking in the armor necessary to go toe-to-toe with another MAX.
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Old 2002-12-24, 10:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #70
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Darkfireknight2 you got it right on man.
finnally do you remember that lone guy with the 12-gadge in Counter-Strike? they are the few, the proud the New Conglomerate.

Loved thoes semi shotguns they tore up some ass at close range.

Last edited by CDaws; 2002-12-24 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 2002-12-24, 10:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #71
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Originally posted by Dragoon412
I get the impression that it will be lacking in the armor necessary to go toe-to-toe with another MAX.
Yeah but see this is my point we don't know how much armor and firepower the VS MAX will have, it will have less armor that is for sure but how much less? And the firepower might just be as strong as the NC, we don't know yet, so you can't say it won't stand toe-to-toe with other MAXs...well at least not just yet.
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Old 2002-12-25, 02:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #72
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Theres 2 wildcards in this MAX discussion and thats well how much less armor the VS MAX has, the other wildcard is the VS weaponry... lets face it, we know dick bout it other than that it shoots purple (same whit the other 2 sides to really hehe)
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Old 2002-12-25, 11:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #73
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Dio -

Here's what I'm basing my assumption on: At the start, all MAXes are equal. They gain special abilities, yet those abilities cost them in another area.

The TR MAX has increased firepower, but is lacking in mobility (since it needs to dig in to increase its firepower).

The NC MAX has increased armor at the cost of reduced firepower (since using the shield lowers ROF)

The VS MAX has increased mobility, but reduced armor. How much? We don't know, but I'd bet money that its decreased armor is worth about as much as the NC and TR MAX's respective mobility and firepower losses.

To sum it up, I'm assuming the MAXes will work like this:

VS MAX: Mobility > Firepower > Armor
TR MAX: Firepower > Armor > Mobility
NC MAX: Armor > Mobility > Firepower

Now, obviously, this is a rule of thumb; an AV MAX will almost certainly outgun an AI MAX. And it wouldn't at all suprise me if the different MAXes had different base characteristics other than those imparted by their special abilities. But I'm not saying that my predictions are the way the game WILL turn out, I'm simply saying that they're my predictions; that's how I THINK it will turn out, based on available information.
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Old 2002-12-25, 11:59 PM   [Ignore Me] #74
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Dio, the keywords are "I THINK" these are my opinions. If your tiny vanu brain can't comprehand that i'm sorry.

"Case and point this is why the vanu won't survive more than 2 minutes on the battle field" CiaSpy2002


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Last edited by darkfireknight2; 2002-12-26 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 2002-12-26, 12:22 AM   [Ignore Me] #75
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To both previous posts, i know you didn't say it was a certainty but nevertheless your assumptions are based on pretty much nothing, we have no info whatsoever to compare the MAXs or any other vehicles or guns for that matter. That is what i was saying.

2 birds with 1 stone. W00t.
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