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Old 2012-08-01, 04:54 AM   [Ignore Me] #16
WVoneseven
Corporal
 
Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


I think prone could easily be successful as long as it was accompanied by the necessary and realistic negatives which most games skip out.

- Weapons should react accordingly with the compromised position with a slower reload rate due to awkwardness as well as less recoil control resulting in a lower overall accuracy.
(an exception to this rule being specifically spec'd sniper weapons which could even gain bonuses for being in prone and negatives while standing.)

- Diving into prone should be allowed but should come with negatives. Firing weapons should be impossible from the moment you instigate the dive to the moment you stop moving. As well as this it should produce some sort of disorienting visual effect such as screen shake or blur which clears more quickly if you remain still after landing but will be extended slightly if you move from a dive rapidly.

- Though fast entrance in prone should be allowed rapid standing up or crouching from prone should not be possible. This would discourage the use of prone over crouch during active combat.

All of these effects would really put prone in its correct tactical position.
It would be a useless tool in an assault as crouch would be a much more tactically advantageous tool due to its mobility speed and accuracy.
Dolphin diving would be completely absent in its recognised form.
Prone would simply provide a rapid defensive manoeuvre allowing surprised infantry to quickly throw themselves into a position which may well save them the fight.
With prone introduced in this way I can see people diving between buildings to recover from fire while returning to crouch to get back in the fight or people diving off the sides of roads etc etc just to get themselves out of fire.

TLDR: Prone should be installed with many offensive negatives do discourage the use of prone in an attacking role and to maximize use of crouch over prone. This should place prone in the tactical position of rapid defensive manoeuvre allowing players to try and quickly get themselves out of enemy fire sacrificing some of their ability to respond offensively for a short time.
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Old 2012-08-01, 09:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #17
MCYRook
Staff Sergeant
 
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Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


Prone is not "missing", because it's not needed.

That's a conscious dev decision - crouch is in, prone is not. I presume because prone would slow down gameplay too much, and they are aiming for quite non-sluggish gameplay with lots of movement.
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Old 2012-08-01, 09:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #18
Hosp
First Sergeant
 
Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


I am all for prone particularly because this is a persistent world not a map that changes/resets after X amount of time.

However, based one how much I see empire zerglings not advancing as it is, I can see why they wouldn't do it. If they're afraid to take a wall in PS1, I don't see them standing up when lead is flying in PS2.
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Old 2012-08-01, 10:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #19
Gugabalog
Major
 
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Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


I think prone could easily be successful as long as it was accompanied by the necessary and realistic negatives which most games skip out.

- Weapons should react accordingly with the compromised position with a slower reload rate due to awkwardness as well as less recoil control resulting in a lower overall accuracy.
(an exception to this rule being specifically spec'd sniper weapons which could even gain bonuses for being in prone and negatives while standing.)

- Diving into prone should be allowed but should come with negatives. Firing weapons should be impossible from the moment you instigate the dive to the moment you stop moving. As well as this it should produce some sort of disorienting visual effect such as screen shake or blur which clears more quickly if you remain still after landing but will be extended slightly if you move from a dive rapidly.

- Though fast entrance in prone should be allowed rapid standing up or crouching from prone should not be possible. This would discourage the use of prone over crouch during active combat.

All of these effects would really put prone in its correct tactical position.
It would be a useless tool in an assault as crouch would be a much more tactically advantageous tool due to its mobility speed and accuracy.
Dolphin diving would be completely absent in its recognised form.
Prone would simply provide a rapid defensive manoeuvre allowing surprised infantry to quickly throw themselves into a position which may well save them the fight.
With prone introduced in this way I can see people diving between buildings to recover from fire while returning to crouch to get back in the fight or people diving off the sides of roads etc etc just to get themselves out of fire.

TLDR: Prone should be installed with many offensive negatives do discourage the use of prone in an attacking role and to maximize use of crouch over prone. This should place prone in the tactical position of rapid defensive manoeuvre allowing players to try and quickly get themselves out of enemy fire sacrificing some of their ability to respond offensively for a short time.
^ Have you ever fired a weapon while prone? It does nothing but increase accuracy. I do agree with the not firing mid dive though, both for balance purposes and that I think someone with proper fire discipline wouldn't fire while their weapon was so poorly controlled.

It's called proning and "carmo" = camo

Dolphin diving when talking about games (mostly CoD) afaik refers to not only advancing with sprint-prone-sprint-prone, which is definitely a valid tactic, but in CoD you could accurately shoot while mid-air and mid-animation going to prone. So as you ran into someone, people would dive prone to minimize hitbox while shooting the opposition mid air. Extremely ridicilous tactic.

I'm all for prone myself. I can understand why they dont want it in PS2, but wouldnt mind having it. That said, it most likely will never be implemented.

I'd want the whole set though, it's sorta annoying how games devolve in features such as proning and more importantly leaning (WTF BF3?!)
^ If they could fix that it would be great, not sure how though. Just got up and cant think straight.

Last edited by Gugabalog; 2012-08-01 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 2012-08-01, 10:25 AM   [Ignore Me] #20
Garrusion
Private
 
Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


I think i'd prefer leaning over prone, though both are nice, I could really only see people with more long range weapons going prone. I'd like to see it but it doesn't need to be in game.
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Old 2012-08-01, 10:48 AM   [Ignore Me] #21
berzerkerking
Second Lieutenant
 
Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


Prone ftw
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Old 2012-08-01, 11:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #22
Gugabalog
Major
 
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Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


Maybe only certain classes could go prone? Like only infiltrators due to their sniping capability?

Maybe it could be rationalized that the other classes' armor is too bulky for it to be a viable firing position?
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Old 2012-08-03, 02:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #23
Dropshockmedic
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Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


Originally Posted by Littleman View Post
They want a dynamic battlefield, one that is constantly moving and in flux.
Originally Posted by MCYRook View Post
That's a conscious dev decision - crouch is in, prone is not. I presume because prone would slow down gameplay too much, and they are aiming for quite non-sluggish gameplay with lots of movement.
As if you can force people how to play - haha, that simply wont happen.
No one can force me to play in a certain way, not even the Devs. Do you really believe people will bow down to a missing function?
To keep the gameplay on a faster moving level?

Then people will "camp" WITHOUT it! If they really want! There are tons of possibilitys to do so! Just because I cant lay down on my belly and hide between gras or other objects, that doesnt mean I cannot hide or camp.
- Use a Tank, dont move to much and watch at a good location. Like in hangers or between buildings.
- Use an Aircraft. You will be seen, but so what? Its not impossible to break log-ons, and camp with mere and never-ending presence in air.
^ try to have a Engineer-comrade at hand at all times.
Someone who enjoys this too. There is always enough fish in the ocean.
- Play as Infantry! You can camp with nearly any class. Use every corner with a little bit Shadow and angles that are normally not looked at so much and blast the Hell out of all enemys that come across.


What I want in the games I play is a maximum of realism.
And its not impossible for a human body to lay down and lay in wait.
People will do what they want. I camped in crouching in Halo1 very often and it always worked out.

There is only one reason I can think of why the devs wouldnt want to place this in the game.
And that is simply what computers can handle and what not!
From some games I played I know that animated grass can be a little kick on what a PC is able to manage in total.
Specially games with a beautiful and big amount of grass!

This game will be big and the devs want to get everything out of it that is possible. So they just cut the grass's maximum range when its visible to help our cute PCs to bear the burden.
Even highend-PCs will have a hard time in fights where +600 players met in one little Hex?
I can imagine that a little bit...!

But even if their is no grass to hide in and that move will make me even more vulnerable as if I just run around like a chicken, or the dancing Banana, dodging bullets like a troll. ^^
Its just missing in a game that aims to be as realistic as possible or not?!
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Old 2012-08-03, 02:33 PM   [Ignore Me] #24
Gugabalog
Major
 
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Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


PS2 is not a sim.
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Old 2012-08-03, 02:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #25
NoDachi
Master Sergeant
 
Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


Next people will be asking for prone in Tribes.
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Old 2012-08-03, 03:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #26
Neurotoxin
First Lieutenant
 
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Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


Shield systems don't work in prone, so soldiers are taught to avoid that position.
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Old 2012-08-03, 09:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #27
Dropshockmedic
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Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


Originally Posted by Gugabalog View Post
PS2 is not a sim.
And you are not trolling I guess?
Or are you afraid you wont be able to use it as good as others?
PS2 isnt a year 199x game as well!

Originally Posted by Neurotoxin View Post
Shield systems don't work in prone, so soldiers are taught to avoid that position.
And those without shields? But let me guess, all Infantry got one.
Didnt observed this directly cause of no interest til yet. Oh noes I just hope there arent multiple tactics to turn us all into a stampede. You can have too much from anything.
I will notice if the game is forced too much into a marathon.

That wont change anything, except everyone running around like ants.
I wonder if people will enjoy that when its not efficient to do anything else?
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Old 2012-08-03, 09:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #28
berzerkerking
Second Lieutenant
 
Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


Originally Posted by MCYRook View Post
Prone is not "missing", because it's not needed.

That's a conscious dev decision - crouch is in, prone is not. I presume because prone would slow down gameplay too much, and they are aiming for quite non-sluggish gameplay with lots of movement.
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Old 2012-08-03, 09:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #29
Gugabalog
Major
 
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Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


And you are not trolling I guess?
Or are you afraid you wont be able to use it as good as others?
PS2 isnt a year 199x game as well!
I'm in favor of prone, but can understand it not being present.
Read the whole thread.
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Old 2012-08-04, 01:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #30
Graf
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Re: Crawling on the ground... missing?


I think that it is silly not to have prone in any form, especially for infiltrators. This is a game about options and customization with certs and all. Why not put it in and have it as an option. Like a prone cert for infiltrator or something. The people who like it get it, and the people who don't spend certs on other things.
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