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Old 2012-08-07, 09:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
brighthand
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orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


According to the planetside lore, there should be a whole bunch of orbital stations surrounding Auraxis, so perhaps we can have one 'continent' whose terrain is replaced with SPAAIIICE, and whose bases are replaced with those orbital stations and really big capital ships, and even some asteroids as capture points.

It would add a fresh spin to the strategy and gameplay as emphasis would be placed on air strategy- since aircrafts would be the only form of transportation to those bases; infantry would still be just as important because they would still be the guys landing on and capturing the floating bases -all the while the three factions are warring it up a la the opening scene of Star Wars episode 3, for air superiority, so that their Galaxy drop ships can get through to land those troops and capture the base.

This could even be a more viable solution to the 'naval warfare' dilema, which seems to demand a whole lot more resources, developement and rebalancing than the Dev team may want to afford, so it kills two birds with one big, heavy, ACME, awesome, stone.

it must be done.

EDIT: Some of those bases can have generators and/or power cores at the center that attacking aircraft have to fly deep into the base to destroy, which could then impact battles on other continents. Imagine being the ace pilot that navigated narrow passageways, dodging enemy fire, then destroying the generator and giving your faction a major win.

Last edited by brighthand; 2012-08-07 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 2012-08-07, 01:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #2
Gugabalog
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


Ya, I've mentioned this sort of idea a bunch in the OAC redux thread, There might be other threads of it already but idk.

Anyways /support for the general concept.
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Old 2012-08-07, 02:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


Meh, Devs would have to put in some different vehicles (just galaxies and fighters otherwise) , and perhaps have some of the ateroid bases be interconnected by tubes? This could allow travel via ground vehicles, and bring back some of the old planetside feel back into the game. Thes tubes should be big though, to allow for chokepoints to be breakable. Perhaps mancannons and elevators could transport infantry while vehicles battle it out in the tubes?
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Old 2012-08-07, 03:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


Thats an interesting idea. Have a few REALLY large complexes with some tunnels big enough for tanks. And plenty of defence hard points to keep off galaxies looking to start a boarding action.

*Fantasizes about a boarding action where people are fighting deck by deck and the CIC is on top.*

I think the existing air vehicles would work fine. Libs could be used to blow external hardpoints, interceptors would be obviously useful, galaxies could be used to board, and vehicles could be used in a limited fashion in the larger tunnels. (Similar to how air sucks in jungles and infantry sucks in plains)
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Old 2012-08-10, 02:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
sgtbjack
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


agreed/signed.

I love me some space combat(plus soe was pretty damn good with it a decade ago, I'm sure they could do even better)
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Old 2012-08-10, 10:00 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
Phisionary
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


So I've not seen in the lore what all possible physics there is to work with in the game. Most technology, aside from be able to immortally rebuild everyone and everything ad infinitum, seems understandable and not too departed from the real. In particular, I haven't seen any signs of anti-gravity, and one would therefore assume, artificial gravity (in the basically star-trek sense of a magic deck-plate you fall towards).

That would suggest that space battles would rightly be zero-g battles. Which do not play like normal in-air dogfights at all. Now, not to denigrate space tactical flyers or shooters or sims or whatever the genre is, but space-fighting games are a bit niche. So I'm not really sure if the idea of actual 'space battles' really has much place in the game. Not unless it just gives up real physics and makes it all 'pew pew' in space, with star wars/star trek/hollywood space physics. Meh. I'm not sure about that. That has it's place, but I'm not sure if that place should really be PS2.

However, an orbiting base that spun for gravity, that could be very cool. Basically 2001:ASO style, but larger scale still, and a much more open design, for gameplay purposes.

Basically an urban environment, streets and alleys and buildings and tubes, except it all goes in a big circle, and as you get closer to the center, the gravity gets less. At the center hub, you'd basically have zero-g. I'm not sure what that would be like in terms of gameplay, but it could be cool.

Alternatively, a hollowed-out asteroid, spun for gravity and filled with atmosphere. That's been done in sci-fi (Rama, was it Eon??, and elsewhere). Perhaps alien technology, for that's some mega-scale construction, there. One could basically have a whole continent, rolled up in a tube. Could be interesting.
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Old 2012-08-10, 10:19 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
Duskguy
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


um.... did they ever mention what fuel or how the aircraft in planetside operate in any of the lore?

was thinking, you claim it would be easier to balance than naval warfare, and i agree. instead of air units you have space units...OR if there is nothing consraining the current aircraft, why couldn't they operate in space?

could make the facilities interconnected with large, wide tunnels and so the ground units could operate the same as they currently operate. and as said, space combat is zero g, so they could design a new set of physics for the aircraft when used on the space map.

would be intering to see a few of the asteroids/ facilities have limited and no gravity and the units get around with some sort of magnetized boots or something so that jumps cause the player to fly off in one direction or to simply bounce and float in the direction of the jump for a bit.
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Old 2012-08-13, 06:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


Imagine adding everything together: NAVAL WARFARE, SKY BASES, ORBITAL STATIONS, SEAMLESS OCEANS AND SPACE COMBAT. Too Epic.



Last edited by HollowX; 2012-08-13 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 2012-08-13, 06:50 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
Gugabalog
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


Whhats that last one a screenie of?
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Old 2012-08-15, 04:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
wormywyrm
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


IMO it is unnecessary to put it in space. Capital ships would be just as enjoyable or more enjoyable if they were floating around above enemy/friendly bases. It would enhance the present gameplay as opposed to creating a new area (caves, anyone?). They could better be used as a base of operations for attacks, be attacked and attack ground vehicles, and be boarded by players.
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Old 2012-08-16, 11:19 AM   [Ignore Me] #11
Psyche
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


Reposting my posts from Air Cruiser Redux thread.

Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
{Before I start, let me say I'm not opposed to the idea. I thought of it myself and was thinking about it a few before I realised some of the problems with it. This post isn't to kill the idea but change it into something more viable for the game}

A few problem I found with the idea:
  • Favors certain playstyles over others (aerial units mainly) which would be a problem for non-aerial centric outfits (infantry, armor, Infiltration, etc.)
  • Adds load to general gameplay area[if present there] and disrupts the map layout [bugs will happen and this being mobile will generate more if present in the game area]. My understanding is these won't actually be in the gameplay area but rather in another area above it so most of this point is moot.
  • Believability - its hard to believe something like this being available [regardless of technology] - its large, it wasn't brought here since its planetbound, it has to be built somewhere, it will require a great deal of resources just to maintain it, what happens if this thing fails and falls to ground? it doesn't provide enough benefits/advantages for the cost without entering gameplay area which would disrupt/imbalance the gameplay area.
  • It only enriches the game for some [Outfits] by providing a private lobby/staging area/sanctuary and possible outfit versus outfit battles [air cruiser vs air cruiser] leaving everyone else empty handed [doesn't justify development costs/work - not enough bang for the buck because of this - niche application]
  • It could potentially work as RMT item or Premium benefit (which would justify the increased load on the network datacenter and asset creation) as its basically equal to a leased & private server in online games. Ie. Virtual housing.

These are some of things I thought of to correct the issues I noticed:
  • Use Orbital Platforms {specifically Low Orbital *see below} instead of Air platforms.
    • Easier to maintain and more limited mobility
    • More believable and eliminates reasonable access of base to gameplay area but is close enough to Interact with gameplay area [Drop Pods, Mass Elevators, Rocketed supply loads,etc.]
    • Can accomadate All playstyles via EVA modification (even tanks can move and maneuver in a soft vacuum with maneuver thrusters) while Air Vehicles would still have there inherent mobility advantage.
    • Seperate play area like a seperate continent but a more drastic climate/environment difference. Which could potentially function like an expansion {like Core Combat though hopefully a lot better and not game-breaking to basic game}.
    • Still allow mobility of Outfit Base via Orbital Drift and repositioning so it could hover over a continent and essentially function as a Private Sanctuary [non-gameplay area] if it shifts into Upper Orbit [not instant].
    • Exotic environment but familiar enough to be accessable [Low Orbit is inside Gravity Well just above Ionosphere{re-entry}. Newtonian movement with gravity providing decay/slowdown [EVA systems would concentrate on maintaining altitude/countering gravity but not slowing down movements which would happen regardless of EVA's activity]. World is also basically upside-down (Ionosphere is a 'soft' boundry - it either kills you for going straight in too fast or 'bounces' you back out into vacuum or drops you into base gameplay area because you actually Re-Entered at the right angle & speed & survived but your EVA stuff is WORTHLESS and your free-falling) with Satelites/Orbiting Ships[derelict or partially active]/Orbital Graveyard & Debris Field {Dust fields & micro meteorites & small scrap held in orbit - kind of like Saturns rings but not natural - litter from us} being the Ceiling and where most of the public and more or less permanent ground is [artificial islands]
    • Items/Mods don't translate to Planetside well or at all (they are largely useless planetside).
    • Situation in orbit can indirectly affect Basic Gameplay (provide buffs) via: modifying Orbital strike availability, reduced Drop Pod respawn times, increased sensor range due to Satelite availability, etc.
    • Provides Lore excuse for its existance & production/construction space. These aren't going to built on the planet and launched (modules and/or pieces might be), they are going to be built in orbit (resources might come from planet or Orbital graveyard). Lore: We came here on Ships - well those ships weren't going to land on the planet with anyone onboard surviving so they'd still be there and they would be neutral ground (what ones were still intact and largely functional) as they are our link to earth [no ship = no earth anymore for us]. The contestable area's and source of materials/components/manufacturing capabilities could be derelicts that need to be restored to produce repair parts[self maintenance capability necessary for long range travel] that are used to build the platforms since most planetside facilities will be geared and designed for build planet bound items not space capable items.
    • Always active but not always accessible to everyone - ie. launch windows to get up there but the sky isn't going to dissappear [except for bugs & server crashes, etc.]. Might have to jump continents to get to a portal (shuttle) to get to it [Outfits with bases will have a respawn at there base and easier access].
    • Provides protection against SWG's Ghosttown epidemic & Gamespace maintenance without an unattractive cost to players. Ie. Bases could be parked in Orbit out of play area to avoid cluttering gamespace without actually destroying them and giving players less reason to want to invest in them.
    • Orbital Platforms scale better than an Air Cruiser would. Meaning: You can have dinky small Orbital Platform that say a very small outfit could afford access and an obscenely large orbital platform without it appearing wrong. With an Air Cruiser, by virtue of its environment and it being an artificial element in it, would have a much larger minimum size that might not be as accessable to small outfits while its max reasonable size would too small for an extremely large outfit [ex. a very large Armored oriented Outfit]. Orbital Platforms are also less known to players [most people haven't been in space but have likely seen astronauts/cosmonauts on TV] so the Developers would have more room for error/inaccuracies in the environment than Air Cruisers which is in Atmosphere [despite differences in upper atmosphere that are very different and unknown to most people but they probably won't realise just how different and assume its wrong].

I decided on Low Orbit instead of full space because Space while popular is a niche in gaming. Most people don't like space games unless they non-spacey enough to be easily accessable. Making a dumbed-down space would come across as cheap to a lot PS vets I think, it wouldn't give a sense of progression or accomplishment by getting better at it/learning about it. Which would mean SOE would have to provide some other reward that would likely mess up the base game. Low Orbit is about as non-spacey a space game can get and still be an actual space game.
Why?:
  • Gravity is still present and its almost a low gravity moon environment except for the lack of land surface. Which has been experimented with in various games in isolated areas within them, it was largely well recieved where it was used like this.
  • Land Surface can reasonably be added to the environment to make it more accessable to players without it seeming out of place or wrong to players or space enthusiasts.
  • Its close enough to the base game area to expect interaction between the two environments while still allowing radical differences.
  • Its a small contained area instead of an extremely large open area and can be presented as a 2d area with altitude instead of being a full 3D area. Which makes technical/asset requirements for it a lot less than having a whole other set of code/assets/functions that would be optimised for 3D to support core game feature [massive player battles].

Here is my fabricated 'excuse' for how it would work:
The Orbital platform essentially floats on the surface of the Ionosphere just like a ship uses bouyancy to float on water. It does this using magnetics as the Ionosphere is charged matter/ozone layer of the atmosphere. The magnetics doesn't hold the Platform up, it actually clamps it down to it. It still have station keeping drives to maintain a stable orbit and allowing to maneuver using mainly drift caused by movement/wind/flow of the Ionosphere particles which is constant and normal. It also taps or scrapes the Ionosphere to generate power via Energy dump of the Ionosphere particles [Ionosphere is what burns stuff up during re-entry because it has a large amount of energy in it [its basically plasma or effectively a natural energy shield that blocks radiation/other energy by reflecting because the particles are already overcharged and will only allow certain wavelengths of energy that can 'fit' in] using Thermal power generation as well as providing a source of matter [the particles themselves, ie. Resources for various uses].

The core Platforms are built from the remains of the Fleet that brought humans here and most refurbishing & manufacturing must be done in space by the few remaining Fleet vessels as they are the only manufacturing facilities designed to produce components/parts that are space-capable for maintenance purposes. New technology advances need to modified to be operable in space. Consequently, maintaining Orbital Platforms allows for more frequent and efficient transfers between plantbound facilities and Orbital facilities as the platforms eliminate most of the problems of re-entry & achieving orbit effectively acting as gates between the planet and space.

Allowing New technology and planetary resources to be used for space advancement and unfortunately have caused a 'space race' and perpetual conflict in orbit frequently centered around the Orbital Platforms and the remaining manufacturing facilities regardless of the operational state of the facilities as the faction struggle for an advantage either by taking each others facilities, refurbishing derelict facilities or manufacturing new ones.

Surviving Fleet personell(SOE/Dev's) have been declared 'Neutral' in the conflicts though some have declared alliegance to certain factions {*cough*cough* lousy NC lovers} and have retreated to geostationary orbit between Auraxis and one of its moons {edit: not sure if there are any} to monitor the situation for any potential catastrophic events occuring due to Orbital decay and successful re-entry of orbital bodies.

{A Dev/GM Staging area aka Outfit base to help with like Live events and is outside the accessable play area unless your using the Development Client Build. Live events play havoc on Network resources [easy to test & prep for Live events because your in the Live but in a redundant area] and most Players like to 'kill' Dev's they see in game [giving GM's a private game/social area when needed - ie. porting a player with them to a chamber here so they can 'talk' etc.]. In Live Game test environment are a lot more effective for reproducing and/or testing bugs/glitches since your in the same environment to get a 'look' at the Live version of them - doing that in a simulated environment requires duplicating all factors that cause it and often some will be left out. Not to mention a place to 'park' there toons without getting killed when they are just playing. The SOE Outfit base which will be a lot better than anything any of us will ever get.}

{EDIT: THAT IS A VERY LONG POST...and I spent 6 hours typing it in due to being pulled away by Daily RL stuff. Hope its useful.}
Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
Outside of some minor Behavior differences and Graphics, Air Cruisers / Low Orbit Platforms and Underwater Naval [I'm pretty sure there is a Thread about Naval expansion ideas floating around] - ALL are IDENTICAL, the only new element is the player defined/created bases.

I presented it as a 'evolution' of his idea and some might consider it that. However, I intended it as Scaled Back version of it to preferrable function as a 'stepping stone' to get to his idea and others [Naval].

Simply put, it would require a lot testing and tweaking to get working right, more than can be expected for in-house testing to do [one thing players are GREAT at is breaking things and finding flaws in designs].

Smedley, is actually tweeting/discussing Player Bases. Someone might want to consolidate Air Cruisers, Low Orbit Platforms and Naval ideas and present it to him - there's a lot of design review that precedes development where they would look at the viability of ideas [including building a roadmap to get to them {which hopefully my Low Orbital Platforms idea will make easier}.

Honestly, I've played Indie games similar to my LOP idea. They are not new to me and I would prefer the Air Cruiser idea [Naval I've dabbled with and while similar goes into a different direction than I like - ie. Speeds are slower and Armor is more important]. I would SOOOO love Air Infantry [Iron Man like stuff] or Air MAX's [Finally something to satisfy my Armored Core cravings without needing a Console system and in an Open World environment - even if its a Mini-version of it that isn't as powerful as anything else - in combined arms MAX's are more Jack of Trades than Masters of anything other than carrying a lot of firepower for there size [ie. Glass Cannons]]. Personally, that would be new to me. The only new thing about LOP to me would be that its high quality and that makes a difference but not a new game.

Ex. For a super rough, crude Tech Demo version of LOP's.

Take Planetside 1:
  • Turn off or Hide Ground.
  • Leave Buildings On and maybe raise the altitude.
  • Leave Water [maybe lower its altitude - thats basically the Ionosphere]
  • Replace Cloud graphics with Debris graphics and Skydome with Stardome.
  • Have all entities that exit out of buildings behave as Air Vehicles [invisible/logical vehicles]
  • Adjust Environmental properties (acceleration,deceleration, drag/air resistance, gravity - increased weapon ranges and what-not)
and there you have a super cheap version of LOP. Or Air Cruisers (multiple water levels to serve as different Altitudes where Flight Behavior changes drastically ~16k and ~34 where Engines become more efficient and powerful but maneuvability suffers[thinner atmosphere] Or Underwater Naval (you would have multiple water levels to serve as 'Thermal' Boundaries that exist underwater and Surface).
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Old 2012-08-16, 11:36 AM   [Ignore Me] #12
vVRedOctoberVv
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


This has been brought up multiple times, and I'm 85% certain that SoE intends to do something along these lines eventually. It's just too logical and would be fairly simple/easy to do without even having to add a lot of new units or worry about balancing stuff.

It would 400x better than caves. See the caves over there? *waves bye* Good riddance!
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Old 2012-08-16, 07:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
sgtbjack
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


What I would like to see instead.

1. Space is completely seperate from the ground game
I don't want space gumming up fps for the ground or vice versa, its just outright easier to implement and control it.

2. Clan Capital ships(customizable, and controllable)
Your capital ships would have living quarters, briefing rooms, functional bridge, ships systems(lifesupport, engines, and what not) with mannable turrets. This also accomodates clan vs clan battles. The continent full of ghost towns being destroyed when your clans logged off does not sound fun, or harvesting resources manually(i.e driving sc2 harvestors?).

3. Fighters, bombers, boarding craft, hybrids and resource collectors.
infantry is not useless, by utilizing boarding craft, or manning capital ship systems like turrets they don't have to be pilots. Landing craft shuttle ground troops to other clans capital ships to destroy from inside. Resource gathering ships are automated, and mine resources in the area. Fighters are fighting, bombers are bombing enemy capital ships.

4. Massive faction base-Basically, too big for other factions to destroy outright. More of a safe zone for parking. A hub for all that nonsense that mmo'ers like. Trade, bullshitting, or playing poker(jk)

5. Massive neutral base-a real pain in the ass to take from whatever faction controls it.(lots of automated turrets and defendable substructures), basically a continent set up like a massive urban environment in a station(gives that room to room/clearing alleys combat). It should probably be alien in creation.

I don't know, just spitballing, but this is what I would want.

Last edited by sgtbjack; 2012-08-16 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 2012-08-17, 07:24 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
Gugabalog
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


Originally Posted by sgtbjack View Post
What I would like to see instead.

1. Space is completely seperate from the ground game
I don't want space gumming up fps for the ground or vice versa, its just outright easier to implement and control it.

2. Clan Capital ships(customizable, and controllable)
Your capital ships would have living quarters, briefing rooms, functional bridge, ships systems(lifesupport, engines, and what not) with mannable turrets. This also accomodates clan vs clan battles. The continent full of ghost towns being destroyed when your clans logged off does not sound fun, or harvesting resources manually(i.e driving sc2 harvestors?).

3. Fighters, bombers, boarding craft, hybrids and resource collectors.
infantry is not useless, by utilizing boarding craft, or manning capital ship systems like turrets they don't have to be pilots. Landing craft shuttle ground troops to other clans capital ships to destroy from inside. Resource gathering ships are automated, and mine resources in the area. Fighters are fighting, bombers are bombing enemy capital ships.

4. Massive faction base-Basically, too big for other factions to destroy outright. More of a safe zone for parking. A hub for all that nonsense that mmo'ers like. Trade, bullshitting, or playing poker(jk)

5. Massive neutral base-a real pain in the ass to take from whatever faction controls it.(lots of automated turrets and defendable substructures), basically a continent set up like a massive urban environment in a station(gives that room to room/clearing alleys combat). It should probably be alien in creation.

I don't know, just spitballing, but this is what I would want.
/signed for 1, 2, and 5.
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Old 2012-08-17, 11:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #15
wormywyrm
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Re: orbiting stations 'contintnet' (space battles)


I would hate to see space and ground separated. Gameplay separation sucks. Did you guys ever play SWG? STO? PotBS? PS1 expansion?
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