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Old 2012-11-17, 11:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #1
PoisonTaco
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Artillery In Planetside 2


I think that Planetside 2 is a game that could benefit from long range artillery strikes. Now how to implement artillery would be difficult because you need to balance the artillery and you need to make it fun for the player operating the gun. So we have two requirements:
  1. Using an artillery gun needs to be fun. You need to get some sort of feedback and see the people you are killing. If you're just sitting there hitting a button and getting xp every few seconds that is not fun.
  2. Artillery needs to be balanced in such a way that it's not spammable and so that it's possible to fight against.

Looking back at an old classic: Battlefield 1942
Battlefield 1942 is an old game which has a fun way of having artillery vehicles. It works by allowing artillery vehicles (including battleships) to indirectly fire across distances without a direct line of sight. This is accomplished with teamwork and coordination from scouts on the team. In 1942, Scouts are equipped with binoculars which can be used to call artillery strikes.

I got together with Jobotoo in my outfit and made this video showing how it works:

Snipers mark a territory with the binoculars. The person operating the artillery then gets to see what the sniper sees. This view lasts for I believe 180 seconds. If there are multiple snipers calling in strikes at the same time, the gunner can switch between views with the mouse wheel. When a strike is called, the sniper is free to move on as they please.

Artillery in Planetside 2

Now this may not work exactly the same way as it does in Planetside 2, but it's a start.
  • Introduce a new vehicle that is armed with a large cannon made for indirect fire. It's big and powerful enough to fire across large distances. Big drawback would be lack of armor and a minimum range making it extremely weak against MBT's, infantry and enemy aircraft.
  • Include a placable item to call in artillery strikes. A camera on a tripod or something. When placed, the artillery gunner sees what the camera sees and can adjust their shots that land on the battlefield.
  • When in artillery mode, the vehicle is deployed and cannot move. The gunner sees what the camera sees so they have no situational awareness.
  • Artillery would be powerful and to reduce spam it could have a deployment radius so that others can't set up artillery around it, much like the sunderers.
  • Defending against artillery would require removing the deployable camera or by taking out the vehicle itself. Defenders can either stop it on the front line or send a strike team behind the enemy and take it out.
  • Using artillery would require teamwork and provide support for both attackers and defenders.

Long range artillery would add another layer of depth to Planetside 2 and would take it one step closer to feeling like a huge war raging across the world. With this method artillery turns into something that players can actively be involved in while providing support to their empire. There's risk involved in deploying artillery and it requires teamwork on the front lines to pull it off. It would also add more strategic elements to attacking or defending a base. One empire could set up artillery at key locations on hills that can prevent armor from moving in through a valuable choke. It could be used to bomb an enemy base when AA is too heavy for liberators.

For customization you could equip the artillery with different cannons with different shell types. One that is good against armor, one that explodes before hitting releasing shrapnel on infantry. Perhaps different types for each empire. There's lots of room for creativity here.

Last edited by PoisonTaco; 2012-11-17 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 2012-11-26, 10:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #2
krnasaur
First Lieutenant
 
Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Talked to some outfit mates,

one thing id like to point out is that SOE was going for a fast paced action game, artillery will slow the game down, so they do not want that.

Other than that I would love some form of artillery. Make it like the flail in planetside 1. How it needs to deploy so it can fire. Give it a large smoke(energy for those purple bastards) trails from the shell to make it visible the direction it is coming from, making it extremely difficult to use, but make it very powerful.


ES variants:
NC: make the shells slow firing, but HUGE explosion
TR: faster refire but weaker DMG
VS: maybe some sort of EMP effect against when it explodes
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Old 2012-11-27, 05:59 PM   [Ignore Me] #3
SGOniell
First Sergeant
 
Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


I personally like the idea, and have wanted to see some sort of artillery, not sure I like the mechanics of this one though. I think the driver should be able to fire at what he sees while on the move but it would be less accurate this way, be more accurate when still, and when deployed be even more accurate. When deployed I feel like it should pull up a map where you would select a location to attack, and perhaps the only way to see targets was to have people use "q" to spot them.
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Old 2012-12-05, 06:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
GTheo
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Artillery could be great in PS2. It would have to be designed so that you cant just lone wolf it and spam a base with ordinance though.

In the BF2 mod forgotten hope the system is really good. A scout can request fire with binos and the gunner can then scroll through fire mission requests. They then manually adjust the angles and get an overhead view of the targeted area thus being able to see the fall of shot.

I envisage the Binos/laser designator being a squad leader cert which had a cool down / or costs resources each use or need resupplying much like grenades. This would hopefully prevent target spamming, overloading the gunner with targets. And if the gunner only received requests from his Platoon.

Observer gets an assist for targets destroyed by the artillery in their designation. Everyone's a winner, except those on the receiving end.

The ability to lay a smoke screen to cover a large move across the open would be immense. This would only really appeal to an organised outfit but that is perfect right?
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Old 2012-12-19, 04:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
Zakuak
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Arti if implemented correctly would be pretty cool! I like your approach so far.

Gtheo, yeah smoke screen rounds would be really sweet!
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Old 2012-12-19, 11:35 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
Rossum
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Interesting idea, not exactly sure how enjoyable it would be in-game (sounds kind of like letting people bomb sunderers, spawn points, and vehicles remotely without going through the trouble of learning to fly aircraft. On the other hand, it could be easier to take them out then relying on ground-to-air weaponry.


Anyway, I've mentioned before that Planetside 2 reminds me alot of an RTS except from the units point of view and oddly, the thought of artillery reminds me of the game Command and Conquer: Generals, where each side has a "General" who can call in special attacks like airstrikes and artillery bombardment from off-screen to help out his units.


I'm thinking that artillery units could be handled by having stationary artillery guns positioned at bases (much like the anti-air and anti-vehicle turrets we have already). Or maybe smaller artillery bases positioned around the map in addition to the various facilities. That way there is a finite number of artillery guns around and everyone knows where they are. Then, players have to capture the guns (using checkpoints and such) in order to access them. The gunners view could be made using pre-positioned cameras and sensors arranged around the map (maybe placed at the top of a tall tower to give the gunner a better view?) and they have to learn to aim it.

Net result is you've got one big "super-turret" that can be used to protect a stretch of land or roadways. However, controlling it relies on keeping the various checkpoints, generators, and stuff at the artillery guns facility and of course keeping the gun repaired when enemies start focusing on taking it out.

So, instead of creating a new vehicle that players will inevitably upgrade with station cash, form five-man teams, and use to spawn camp their opponents with, you place powerful and interesting stationary weapons at the various facilities on the map. The understanding being that whoever controls that facility will be able to rain destruction on their opponents in specified areas. This gives people a definite reason to defend these bases, since they don't want to lose their artillery gun and more to the point, don't want their opponent to control them.


Hmm, maybe the 'targeting' aspect of the turret could be somehow tied in with how people can spot enemies with the 'Q' key? Basically, the guy in the turret has low visibility but has access to a mini-map he can use to just target things directly (sort of like an orbital bombardment). However, he needs others to spot enemies for him. Having an artillery gun on your side in a given area could be an added incentive to spot enemies in that area. If you can spot them, odds are high that the artillery man can start bombing the crud out of them in a few seconds and you get experience for spotting.

Or there could be cameras/turrets set up that give the gunner a view of the area (the turrets being manned by team mates who can add their own damage and help spot, kind of like being on a plane with the main gunner sort of being the 'pilot' in a way). The main gunner deals out the most damage, but relies on the others to give him visual cues about the battlefield. Thus, enemies can go in to take out the cameras/turrets to blind the main gunner before they go after him directly.
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Old 2012-12-20, 09:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
HiroshiChugi
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Rossum View Post
Interesting idea, not exactly sure how enjoyable it would be in-game (sounds kind of like letting people bomb sunderers, spawn points, and vehicles remotely without going through the trouble of learning to fly aircraft. On the other hand, it could be easier to take them out then relying on ground-to-air weaponry.


Anyway, I've mentioned before that Planetside 2 reminds me alot of an RTS except from the units point of view and oddly, the thought of artillery reminds me of the game Command and Conquer: Generals, where each side has a "General" who can call in special attacks like airstrikes and artillery bombardment from off-screen to help out his units.


I'm thinking that artillery units could be handled by having stationary artillery guns positioned at bases (much like the anti-air and anti-vehicle turrets we have already). Or maybe smaller artillery bases positioned around the map in addition to the various facilities. That way there is a finite number of artillery guns around and everyone knows where they are. Then, players have to capture the guns (using checkpoints and such) in order to access them. The gunners view could be made using pre-positioned cameras and sensors arranged around the map (maybe placed at the top of a tall tower to give the gunner a better view?) and they have to learn to aim it.

Net result is you've got one big "super-turret" that can be used to protect a stretch of land or roadways. However, controlling it relies on keeping the various checkpoints, generators, and stuff at the artillery guns facility and of course keeping the gun repaired when enemies start focusing on taking it out.

So, instead of creating a new vehicle that players will inevitably upgrade with station cash, form five-man teams, and use to spawn camp their opponents with, you place powerful and interesting stationary weapons at the various facilities on the map. The understanding being that whoever controls that facility will be able to rain destruction on their opponents in specified areas. This gives people a definite reason to defend these bases, since they don't want to lose their artillery gun and more to the point, don't want their opponent to control them.


Hmm, maybe the 'targeting' aspect of the turret could be somehow tied in with how people can spot enemies with the 'Q' key? Basically, the guy in the turret has low visibility but has access to a mini-map he can use to just target things directly (sort of like an orbital bombardment). However, he needs others to spot enemies for him. Having an artillery gun on your side in a given area could be an added incentive to spot enemies in that area. If you can spot them, odds are high that the artillery man can start bombing the crud out of them in a few seconds and you get experience for spotting.

Or there could be cameras/turrets set up that give the gunner a view of the area (the turrets being manned by team mates who can add their own damage and help spot, kind of like being on a plane with the main gunner sort of being the 'pilot' in a way). The main gunner deals out the most damage, but relies on the others to give him visual cues about the battlefield. Thus, enemies can go in to take out the cameras/turrets to blind the main gunner before they go after him directly.
i love this idea, as well as the original one. maybe combine them both? for instance:

1. have the mobile artillery that fires much like the artillery in WoT. (aiming reticles that get smaller when aimed at one spot,extremely weak armor, and very limited ammunition.) But also have different ammo types specific to each faction. like napalm rounds for the TR, Shrapnel for the NC, and EMP/Plasma rounds for the VS. maybe add more round types for each faction, but also have the standard amunition rounds.

2. have the stationary artillery much more powerful n the mioblie artillery, but only able to fire high explosive rounds, but have a biger explosion radius, and are able to fire farther than the mobile artillery.

any other ideas maybe?
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Old 2012-12-21, 07:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #8
Daliahita
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


I've thought of a pretty good way this could be pulled off.
  • Lightning tanks and heavy tanks get a weapon that fires heavy artillery rounds. The gun has fixed turning angles so you can't fire it straight ahead like a tank. A scrolling reticule on the GUI would show the angle of the gun relative to the body.
  • They will have access to a performance mod that lets them stationary deploy to be able to fire more quickly and accurately. Without this, it's lack of precision and accuracy make it only useful for scatter-shooting large groups of infantry.
  • The gun will have 2 fire modes. One is the live fire, the second is the dummy fire. The dummy fire marks the map where it lands. The operator can then "lock on" to this signal, causing the gun to rotate and shift to the appropriate angle. The operator can then either fire, or manually adjust further. The operator can also lock on to smoke flares, infiltrator darts, and squad waypoints, administering support to allies without much in-between needed.
  • The HUD for this will look much like the deployment map, except instead of spawn points, you see usable lock-on points you can pick and choose. You can see these on your map so you get a vague sense of where you are shooting.

Situation A: A typical situation would be having your infiltrator get close and place a dart on a tank. You lock on and fire away.

Situation B: If the dart missed, the infiltrator tells you "shift by 2 points West of marker". You lock on the dart, shift 2 degrees and fire away. Quick and relatively easy.

Situation C: You don't have an infiltrator buddy. Your useless Light Assault friend Terry is here. He assists you correct manually. You fire a dummy at the target and he tells you "I dunno its kinda close". "Kinda close doesn't cut it Terry, how far off was I?" "I dunno, I can't really tell" "DAMMIT TERRY GET YO SH*T TOGETHER" "OKAY he's a little north of the marker" "How many degrees, Terry?" "I dunno" You lock on the marker, sigh and then shift the axis up 5 degrees and fire praying to land a hit and save your squad from that Vanguard that's been tearing through them.

This way, artillery can be used by very well-coordinated squads and platoons, but is not made impossible for an individual to have some degree of success with.
Also, making it a weapon for a currently existing vehicle rather than creating an entirely new one or making it a stationary turret dampens the level of abuse it could cause. People will totally pay all their resources to jump into a vehicle they have no idea how to pilot, but they will only buy the 1000 cert vehicle weapons when knowing exactly what they are getting into

EDIT: grammar.

Last edited by Daliahita; 2012-12-21 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 2013-01-01, 10:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
Wandering Mania
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Artilliry could be both a good and a bad thing. This just more reminds me of the times on PS1 that one base was being spamed by 6 flails from all directions and makeing it nearly impossable to pull a vehichle or go outside but if you timed the shots it could be done. But with the new base desines and every thing out in the open except for Bio-Labs I think it would end up more bad then goo. Because of the fact that with the libbies alredy camping the spawns and bombing any one who leaves them, you now have Artilliry comeing from god knows where and if you get the libby down your still being camped from an unknown place. I think before this can happen all bases need some sort of underground spawn inplace first.
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Old 2013-01-02, 08:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #10
HiroshiChugi
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Wandering Mania View Post
Artilliry could be both a good and a bad thing. This just more reminds me of the times on PS1 that one base was being spamed by 6 flails from all directions and makeing it nearly impossable to pull a vehichle or go outside but if you timed the shots it could be done. But with the new base desines and every thing out in the open except for Bio-Labs I think it would end up more bad then goo. Because of the fact that with the libbies alredy camping the spawns and bombing any one who leaves them, you now have Artilliry comeing from god knows where and if you get the libby down your still being camped from an unknown place. I think before this can happen all bases need some sort of underground spawn inplace first.
I agree. although I didn't see this at first, I see it now. But Artillery also would need some sort of visual aid, such as allies spotting enimies with the "Q" key. otherwise, artillery would be pretty much useless.
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Old 2013-01-02, 09:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
Rossum
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Originally Posted by HiroshiChugi View Post
I agree. although I didn't see this at first, I see it now. But Artillery also would need some sort of visual aid, such as allies spotting enimies with the "Q" key. otherwise, artillery would be pretty much useless.
Alternatly, they just remember where the enemy spawn is (or some other high traffic area) then park their artillery vehicle there and keep spamming the target by firing blindly. They just have to remember "Okay, I'm about 5 meters from the top of this hill, now just aim south be south-west and have the gun pointed up at a 63-degree angle and the rounds should be landing in the enemy courtyard. I'll just keep spamming them until someone on my team gives better directions... or move around a bit till I start getting alerted for my kills."

Really, an artillary vehicle parked next to an ammo-dispensing sunderer could theoretically fire constantly without having to really think about what they are shooting at. Just kind of spitball it towards the enemy base and listen for alerts on killing enemy infantry or warnings on firing on your own team.

Heck, the guy who parks the ammo-sunderer doesn't even have to care about what they are shooting at. He just has a stationary vehicle that's constantly firing at stuff and getting ammo dispensed to it. You could have a whole squad of people with artillary vehicles parked around an ammo sunderer, just kind of firing in the direction of some enemy base and getting XP when their explosive rounds hit something.
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Old 2013-01-03, 04:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #12
Micro
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Good idea! And I agree with the people above (especially Rossum). I think they would be a nice new gameplay mechanic, but would change how we play right now a lot, and would probably be slightly overpowered (the Ammo-Sunderer thing).
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Old 2013-01-03, 08:25 AM   [Ignore Me] #13
HiroshiChugi
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Who knows, maybe it could even help eliminate the zerging problem we currently have in Planetside 2...?
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Old 2013-01-03, 12:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
Wandering Mania
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Micro View Post
Good idea! And I agree with the people above (especially Rossum). I think they would be a nice new gameplay mechanic, but would change how we play right now a lot, and would probably be slightly overpowered (the Ammo-Sunderer thing).
I was mostly pointing out in my earlier comment that for Arti to come into the game first there would need to be an entire overhual on base desine so that spawn rooms where no longer spamable by every tank and aircraft in the game. That way defence would be possable and no-longer a "zerg-fest". Hamma's vid on the frount page has meny meny valid points and I ask you. How long can a "zerg-fest" be fun to play? Samable arti seems to just add to the problem more than solve it to me.
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Old 2013-01-05, 11:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #15
DovahTerran
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Re: Artillery In Planetside 2


In the BF2 mod forgotten hope the system is really good. A scout can request fire with binos and the gunner can then scroll through fire mission requests. They then manually adjust the angles and get an overhead view of the targeted area thus being able to see the fall of shot.
I played Forgotten Hope quite a bit back in the day... The feel of artillery they had there was perfect IMO.

I'm not saying that PS2 is a WWII mod for a mid-2000's game. It isn't. However, I AM saying that in that mod you had to work quite efficiently as a team to make the arty worth using. I you used it effectively, infantry were essentially thrown into a meat grinder while vehicles (which were almost as slow) were put into much the same situation; unless they got into some sort of cover (a building, rock overhangs, etc). If we could integrate that sort of mini-metagame (which as we all know, we ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE NAO CUZ IT ISNT THERE YET!11.. ) it would help satiate the strategy-minded among us, while giving those who don't like frontline combat (or have laggy comps like me) a nice, eventually easy way to still advance gamewise and have fun.

I for one would love being an artillery officer. I often command my outfit or a platoon(s) of mixed units anyway, so I spend way too much talking to be of use in frontline combat. Think Yoda in that EPII scene where he's sitting by the command base with all the artillery, I guess.

PS1's Flail artillery was pretty nice. It had a cool energy trail so you could sort of gauge where the shots were coming from (though with an organized unit controlling the arty, good luck with getting there without dying ), and it had quite a reasonable radius for its' explosion.

Overall, Arty could be a really great addition to the game. Someone else posted in here that SOE want's a fast-paced, actiony game. Arty wouldn't slow that down. The Crown will still be full of helpless noobs looking for a farm. The only difference now is that we could have some arty set up at TI Alloys and make a farm of their own.

Speaking of which.. Who misses the deploy feature for Prowlers? That kindof was like artillery..
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