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Old 2012-06-29, 02:13 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Rivenshield
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Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


It's been a blast, and can only get better throughout July. Old friends, old names, recollections of epic struggles with new ones to fight. And it forced a number of game design issues upon me afresh -- ones we've been arguing about in exhaustive detail for months. It made me see them clearly through fresh experience, rather than through the looking-glass of nostalgia....

1) Fuck BFR's. Fuck them in the ear. I'd forgotten how badly I hate them. They have mobility, overwhelming firepower, and are impossibly freaking hard to kill. Ditto on the Galaxy gunship. Nothing that just sits there and farms you while you repeatedly throw everything you have at it should be in a first person shooter. They're game breakers.

2) It is exasperatingly difficult to get gunners, even when you broadcast hey, Raider loading up at the front door, hop in and ride in style... and then spam WE NEED A GUNNER! at the line of foot zergers streaming past you and out the front gate. I still think single-manned armor is an iffy idea, but..... I understand it much better now, and I am much more willing to give it the college try than I was a week ago.

3) The new system of forgiving grief will be a blessing -- particularly those of us who can't do twitchy-combat for beans and largely rely on grenade launchers and Pounder MAXes. It's hard to shoot around or above people when they are strafing back and forth in front of you like a congo line on a caffeine high.

4) Whatever resource system they come up with needs to be simple and comprehensible, because I can't understand what mods give you access to which base features *now,* and I was there when they introduced most of it. It's a tangled mess that grew almost organically over the several years I played, and seems to have gotten more complex after I left.

5) The time to kill with handheld weapons against other infantry in PS1 seems to be just right. I can't imagine it being worse, what with the vast new territory we have to cover and the gigantic bases we'll have to fight in. 'Spawn, run for a full minute, AHH I'M BEING SHOT AT DODGE SHOOT BLARGH respawn' being replaced by 'spawn, run for TWO minutes, DIE INSTANTLY' is not much of an improvement no matter how nice the graphics are.

6) The TTK for most ground vehicles is far too long. I remember the Decimator before it got nerfed, and it was a good anti-armor weapon. Now it's an armor-annoyance weapon that I haven't scored a single kill with in three days. We need something we can carry around and definitively thump enemy vehicles with, as it was of old. Even some kind of dedicated anti-tank mine would be nice -- something that goes off like a squib if a soldier or light vehicle runs over it, but blows half of the health off a Vanguard.

7) I still get completely disoriented and run around for fruitless frustrating minutes trying to find things like the vehicle pad or the gen room. These new big giant bases better have a user-friendly map you can bring up in your HUD, with everything clearly labeled.

8) I'd forgotten how much fun being a cloaker was. It put a great big grin on my face. And I found myself thinking, yes, I would LOVE to pack a sniper rifle and cloak while I position myself. Not being able to take the thing out while I'm cloaked would be fine with me. I imagined it from my own POV -- a bunch of goddam Vanu cloakers running around with ray-gun sniper rifles, say -- and how I would feel about that... and figured, hey. As long as I can see them while they're SHOOTING at me, that's gravy. It adds spice and zest and more sneaky challenges to the thing. I predict there are going to be whole mass duels between the new sniper class and their wholly-cloaked counterparts that are out there trying to kill them, and they will be delightfully nerve-wracking.

9) Despite my grousing about their foot-zerging habits, my beloved TR is much as I remember it. They demonstrably lay more mines, pull more AMS's, do more ANT runs, and fix/heal/help each other more than our enemies do. If we can preserve that Psychotic Combat Engineer corporate culture when we transition to PS2, I'll be well content.

Anyone else been playing, rediscovering old loves and ancient frustrations, and pondered what they portend for PS2? And of our hopes and fears for it?

Last edited by Rivenshield; 2012-06-29 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:15 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
AThreatToYou
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


Uh, #1... BFRs were nerfed into oblivion. They are worthless now. Their only use is that they have regenerating shielding.

Last edited by AThreatToYou; 2012-06-29 at 02:16 AM.
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:24 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


Decis are OP as hell against a MAX unit. Making them more powerfu would destroy maxes completely, not that they're already useless except for the AA one.
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:27 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


I'm fairly certain in PlanetSide 1, the damages of everything versus everything can be hard-coded to where a decimator's damage won't change vs a MAX unit even if they buff its damage versus all vehicles. And MAXs are hardly underpowered, but decis don't need to do more damage to them, that is for sure.

That kind of direct-balance tweaking might be necessary for PlanetSide 2.

Last edited by AThreatToYou; 2012-06-29 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:27 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


1) Yea one competent soldier can take down a BFR regardless of how well it's piloted, they're more than balanced now. Same goes for the GG, it's a huge target, very easy to pick off.

2) I hear you, I immediately understood why they did it.

6) Do not shoot the Decimator at vehicles, use the lancer/Stryker

But I agree, it's super nice to see some of those massive battles again!
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:38 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


All it's done is reminded me why I quit so many years ago. Bring on PS2 because the big piece of shit known as PS1 needs to be put down.

Remember it for what it was, not what it is.
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


Originally Posted by Rivenshield View Post
2) It is exasperatingly difficult to get gunners
Raider

Think I found your problem..

5) The time to kill with handheld weapons against other infantry in PS1 seems to be just right. I can't imagine it being worse, what with the vast new territory we have to cover and the gigantic bases we'll have to fight in. 'Spawn, run for a full minute, AHH I'M BEING SHOT AT DODGE SHOOT BLARGH respawn' being replaced by 'spawn, run for TWO minutes, DIE INSTANTLY' is not much of an improvement no matter how nice the graphics are.

6) The TTK for most ground vehicles is far too long. I remember the Decimator before it got nerfed, and it was a good anti-armor weapon. Now it's an armor-annoyance weapon that I haven't scored a single kill with in three days. We need something we can carry around and definitively thump enemy vehicles with, as it was of old. Even some kind of dedicated anti-tank mine would be nice -- something that goes off like a squib if a soldier or light vehicle runs over it, but blows half of the health off a Vanguard.

Its curious you put these together. TTK on vehicles is long for the very reasons you don't want a short ttk on infantry... it takes a long time to get back to the battle. Infantry at least has the option of spawns right nearby, and doesn't have a 5 minute cooldown. If you die in a vehicle, you have to spawn back at another base, run to the pad, grab a vehicle, drive back to the fight. All of which can take several minutes. As you put it, nobody wants to spend several minutes getting to a fight then instantly dying.
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:57 AM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


Originally Posted by BuzzCutPsycho View Post
All it's done is reminded me why I quit so many years ago.
That's funny. I swore I coulda seen you out there the night before last....
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Old 2012-06-29, 03:00 AM   [Ignore Me] #9
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


Originally Posted by Rivenshield View Post
2) It is exasperatingly difficult to get gunners, even when you broadcast hey, Raider loading up at the front door, hop in and ride in style... [...]
This is exactly why I was shocked they added a Sunderer even when we already have a Galaxy. They really needed to focus ground vehicles on single and two person designs. People have weird thoughts on forumside about multicrew vehicles. They often get disconnected with the reality of the game and how players actually play.
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Old 2012-06-29, 03:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Originally Posted by Rivenshield
2) It is exasperatingly difficult to get gunners

Quote:
Raider
Think I found your problem..
I can see you never tried out the TR Navy tactic, a platoon rocking the Raiders can be an extremely devastating team, hell we even smashed a larger force of Magriders the supposed kings of the waves and scared off/blew up everything that was thrown at us. Raiders rule!
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Old 2012-06-29, 03:25 AM   [Ignore Me] #11
oosik
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


Originally Posted by Rivenshield View Post
It's been a blast, and can only get better throughout July. Old friends, old names, recollections of epic struggles with new ones to fight. And it forced a number of game design issues upon me afresh -- ones we've been arguing about in exhaustive detail for months. It made me see them clearly through fresh experience, rather than through the looking-glass of nostalgia....

1) Fuck BFR's. Fuck them in the ear. I'd forgotten how badly I hate them. They have mobility, overwhelming firepower, and are impossibly freaking hard to kill. Ditto on the Galaxy gunship. Nothing that just sits there and farms you while you repeatedly throw everything you have at it should be in a first person shooter. They're game breakers.

2) It is exasperatingly difficult to get gunners, even when you broadcast hey, Raider loading up at the front door, hop in and ride in style... and then spam WE NEED A GUNNER! at the line of foot zergers streaming past you and out the front gate. I still think single-manned armor is an iffy idea, but..... I understand it much better now, and I am much more willing to give it the college try than I was a week ago.

3) The new system of forgiving grief will be a blessing -- particularly those of us who can't do twitchy-combat for beans and largely rely on grenade launchers and Pounder MAXes. It's hard to shoot around or above people when they are strafing back and forth in front of you like a congo line on a caffeine high.

4) Whatever resource system they come up with needs to be simple and comprehensible, because I can't understand what mods give you access to which base features *now,* and I was there when they introduced most of it. It's a tangled mess that grew almost organically over the several years I played, and seems to have gotten more complex after I left.

5) The time to kill with handheld weapons against other infantry in PS1 seems to be just right. I can't imagine it being worse, what with the vast new territory we have to cover and the gigantic bases we'll have to fight in. 'Spawn, run for a full minute, AHH I'M BEING SHOT AT DODGE SHOOT BLARGH respawn' being replaced by 'spawn, run for TWO minutes, DIE INSTANTLY' is not much of an improvement no matter how nice the graphics are.

6) The TTK for most ground vehicles is far too long. I remember the Decimator before it got nerfed, and it was a good anti-armor weapon. Now it's an armor-annoyance weapon that I haven't scored a single kill with in three days. We need something we can carry around and definitively thump enemy vehicles with, as it was of old. Even some kind of dedicated anti-tank mine would be nice -- something that goes off like a squib if a soldier or light vehicle runs over it, but blows half of the health off a Vanguard.

7) I still get completely disoriented and run around for fruitless frustrating minutes trying to find things like the vehicle pad or the gen room. These new big giant bases better have a user-friendly map you can bring up in your HUD, with everything clearly labeled.

8) I'd forgotten how much fun being a cloaker was. It put a great big grin on my face. And I found myself thinking, yes, I would LOVE to pack a sniper rifle and cloak while I position myself. Not being able to take the thing out while I'm cloaked would be fine with me. I imagined it from my own POV -- a bunch of goddam Vanu cloakers running around with ray-gun sniper rifles, say -- and how I would feel about that... and figured, hey. As long as I can see them while they're SHOOTING at me, that's gravy. It adds spice and zest and more sneaky challenges to the thing. I predict there are going to be whole mass duels between the new sniper class and their wholly-cloaked counterparts that are out there trying to kill them, and they will be delightfully nerve-wracking.

9) Despite my grousing about their foot-zerging habits, my beloved TR is much as I remember it. They demonstrably lay more mines, pull more AMS's, do more ANT runs, and fix/heal/help each other more than our enemies do. If we can preserve that Psychotic Combat Engineer corporate culture when we transition to PS2, I'll be well content.

Anyone else been playing, rediscovering old loves and ancient frustrations, and pondered what they portend for PS2? And of our hopes and fears for it?
I've been back for three months (quit in mid-2004) and have played 4-10 hours a day, every day. The game is much better design-wise than when I left, and has been tremendous fun. As regards your points:

1) BFRs. I am glad they won't make it into ps2. But I have noticed with the increase in population the past few days that they aren't as game breaking as they seemed to be earlier, probably due to them being a magnet for every reaver, tank, stryker, and av weapon in the vicinity.

2) I understand about getting gunners. But getting into a squad and outfit helps a lot.

3) check fire. If you check fire when you start to get grief, you won't be affected that much. I've never been over 300 grief in 3 months and I run pounder max all the time.

6) I disagree. Vehicle TTK seems just right to me.

9) I also ran and run TR exclusively. To me the TR seem much better at repairing, ant runs, and coordination than they did in 03-04. Sure you get the global spam, but quite often the core leadership group seems right on target with their broadcasts.

One thing you didn't mention: orbital strikes. If they are in ps2, I hope they are quite limited both in time and resource cost. They should be utilized strategically at critical battle points, not just to take out a turret you are pissed at or during a minor tower battle.

And another: The engineering changes in 2007 were great. I've been running advanced engineer for at least 2 months and love the changes from 03-04. I hope the ps2 engineers are just as good at aiding the battle.

The past few days with the pop-locked continents (queues? What the heck is a queue? Oh, I see.) have been hellaciously fun, and sometimes hilarious. Like the NC guy today who did a drop on Wakea tower without an emp and ran towards a spit to fire at: a spit right next to my turret. Needless to say, I killed him before the spit did. :-)
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Old 2012-06-29, 03:31 AM   [Ignore Me] #12
Vanu Techpriest
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


Loaded up PS1 for the first time since it released and I'm getting my ass handed to me. I think the TTK might be too high but that could be because I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

Example: I shoot someone with the default shotgun 4 times at close range and they don't die. Five minutes later an NC rolls up and destroys me in 2 shots with his super shotgun. I guess I just need to figure out which weapons are good.

Overall I'm hoping that PS2 has a TTK similar to Battlefield 3. Maybe slightly longer.
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Old 2012-06-29, 03:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #13
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


Originally Posted by Vanu Techpriest View Post
Loaded up PS1 for the first time since it released and I'm getting my ass handed to me. I think the TTK might be too high but that could be because I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

Example: I shoot someone with the default shotgun 4 times at close range and they don't die. Five minutes later an NC rolls up and destroys me in 2 shots with his super shotgun. I guess I just need to figure out which weapons are good.

Overall I'm hoping that PS2 has a TTK similar to Battlefield 3. Maybe slightly longer.
Its because PS1 is and has always been a game about the best ping. The players with better connection to the server will dance around you Matrix style . Its not a coincidence the top killers of PS1 was Dutch and neighbors with the server. I really hope they got this solved for PS2.
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Old 2012-06-29, 03:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


Originally Posted by elfailo View Post
After a few hours today and yesterday I've come to the conclusion that TTK on infantry is definitely too high for my taste in this game. This is because aiming in Planetside is way too easy for it to make any significant difference. The only factors that make it harder are network lag and the inconsistency in how the game feels. The mouse control is horrible and sometimes it feels a lot faster than other times.

Smart movement is also irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you try to flank people or sneak up to them using blind spots, they all have audio amp and there's always enough time to turn around and return fire due to the high TTK and the fact that the weapons generally have pathetic range. You need to be really close to someone for a Jackhammer or even MCG to be effective, so there's a pretty big chance they will see you on radar, giving them the opportunity to turn it into an AADADADADA strafing fest and canceling out any plan for attack.

Spam is still completely out of control. It's never been different, but all of this reminded me again of why at some point many years ago I simply stopped caring about it and sat in my Reaver 24/7. There's just barely any skill in the infantry game in Planetside.
I like the TTK, it's higher than CoD/BF but lower than Halo. If TTKs were as high as Halo's weapons (outside of grenades/power weapons), then things would get much more crowded in tight spaces.
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Old 2012-06-29, 03:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #15
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Re: Reality check -- playing PS1 for the past three days


MY only complaint is how badly it runs on my pc and the bad netcode... heh.

Oh, and the cycler. That gun is so bad.
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