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Old 2012-07-10, 08:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #31
musefrog
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Re: Hit indicators


Originally Posted by Dart View Post
Anyone arguing AGAINST hit indicators has clearly forgotten this is an MMO and we'll all have varying amounts of ping. Without a hit indicator it is incredibly difficult to know how far/fast you need to lead a target to compensate for your individual ping to the server at that specific moment in time.
This. Especially if you're playing a server halfway round the planet, with a large ping...
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Old 2012-07-10, 08:54 AM   [Ignore Me] #32
fishirboy
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Re: Hit indicators


people rely on hit indicators to much there should be no hit indicators because just through a grenade behind ever corner and getting lucky and hitting some one is stupid. You have to rely on skill to win no just by hitting some one and not see them, if you hit them you should be able to see them. This game and every other game that has hit indicators are like handicaps and should not be in game, please tell me why there so tactical and are better to use then to find some one with a grenade?


Originally Posted by Dart View Post
Anyone arguing AGAINST hit indicators has clearly forgotten this is an MMO and we'll all have varying amounts of ping. Without a hit indicator it is incredibly difficult to know how far/fast you need to lead a target to compensate for your individual ping to the server at that specific moment in time.

I'm getting sick of this whole 'immersion' argument. It's a GAME. And many, many games were ruined because someone thought realism was more important than balance and mechanics.
Yes yes, the whole "lag" issue. lets just wait until beta and see this "lag" and how bad it is, and realy if we were to take out hit indicators out of black ops people would still do just fine they would however be fooled by the grenade not hitting any one deal. I am relay sick of hit indicators relay people rely on them to much.
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Last edited by fishirboy; 2012-07-10 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 2012-07-10, 08:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #33
wasdie
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Re: Hit indicators


Hit indicators are great in a game like this. This isn't some military sim. Hit indicators give the player more visual and audio feedback that their shots are connecting. It makes the shooting feel more satisfying and gives the player a better sense of connection with the gun they are using.

There have been hit indicators in FPSs since the Quake days. They are there so the player doesn't waste time thinking they are hitting their target when they aren't. It leads to a lot of unnecessary frustrations and disconnection from the gameplay.

Last edited by wasdie; 2012-07-10 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 2012-07-10, 08:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #34
Dart
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Re: Hit indicators


Originally Posted by fishirboy View Post
people rely on hit indicators to much there should be no hit indicators because just through a grenade behind ever corner and getting lucky and hitting some one is stupid. You have to rely on skill to win no just by hitting some one and not see them, if you hit them you should be able to see them. This game and every other game that has hit indicators are like handicaps and should not be in game, please tell me why there so tactical and are better to use then to find some one with a grenade?
Grenades are not why hit indicators are in games. They are to allow players with a ping (you, all of us) to see when our shots are landing as we fire. They are ESSENTIAL to online FPS play and even more vital in an MMOFPS. Anyone arguing against them will lose the argument ultimately because until mankind can game without latency they're here to stay.
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Old 2012-07-10, 08:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #35
fishirboy
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Re: Hit indicators


Originally Posted by Dart View Post
Grenades are not why hit indicators are in games. They are to allow players with a ping (you, all of us) to see when our shots are landing as we fire. They are ESSENTIAL to online FPS play and even more vital in an MMOFPS. Anyone arguing against them will lose the argument ultimately because until mankind can game without latency they're here to stay.
ever heard of watching your shot go down the range? People will be able to see there shots going and were they land, and adjust from there, but still... wait until beta Bruhaha
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Old 2012-07-10, 09:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #36
unAimed
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Re: Hit indicators


Originally Posted by fishirboy View Post
ever heard of watching your shot go down the range? People will be able to see there shots going and were they land, and adjust from there, but still... wait until beta Bruhaha
Latency most of the time prevents shots going where you think/see they are going when it comes to a moving target...
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Old 2012-07-10, 09:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #37
wasdie
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Re: Hit indicators


Originally Posted by fishirboy View Post
ever heard of watching your shot go down the range? People will be able to see there shots going and were they land, and adjust from there, but still... wait until beta Bruhaha
Wait, every round you fire is a tracer round?

No. No they aren't. You can't see where every bullet lands. Especially when you take into consideration the random deviation placed in the game to enhance the recoil effect.

Hit indicators are in the game as it makes the shooting feel more complete. You get a visual (and sometimes audio) indication when your bullets connect. It makes you feel like you're actually connecting bullets to another player. It gives a further sense of connectedness to the gameplay.

It's also necessary when the enemies are at a distance from you. Considering this isn't CS, the enemies aren't always going to be 2 feet from you. Targets are going to be small. Not only are your rounds not always tracer rounds, even with high resolutions, a lot of the targets you will be shooting at will be to small to effectively see if you're having any real impact due to the limitations of a monitor.

Hit indicators also streamline some of the clumsy mechanics of shooting in FPSs. You know when you're hitting and when you're not hitting. You don't spend any time sitting there shooting at a target you're clearly not hit, exposing yourself longer than you need to. If you want to say "well people just need to spend time to learn the game, don't dumb it down" you miss the whole point of gaming.
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Old 2012-07-10, 09:07 AM   [Ignore Me] #38
Dart
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Re: Hit indicators


Originally Posted by fishirboy View Post
ever heard of watching your shot go down the range? People will be able to see there shots going and were they land, and adjust from there, but still... wait until beta Bruhaha
If you don't realise that where YOU see your bullet landing and where it actually lands are often two different places then you must be new to FPS games. We don't need to wait on beta for this. It's in and it isn't going anywhere. #dealwithit

Last edited by Dart; 2012-07-10 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 2012-07-10, 09:09 AM   [Ignore Me] #39
wasdie
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Re: Hit indicators


Originally Posted by Dart View Post
If you honestly believe you'll be able to shoot accurately while watching where your previous bullet landed you must be new to FPS games. We don't need to wait on beta for this. It's in and it isn't going anywhere. #dealwithit
Yeah. It's been in FPS since at least Quake 3 for a reason. Even Planetside had them.
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Old 2012-07-10, 09:22 AM   [Ignore Me] #40
fishirboy
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Re: Hit indicators


I don't want all the fancy wind things and stuff but this is the bet example for sniping and i relay just don't see how we need hit indicators, if you hit them they will fall over if you don't then you will see sand or a spark from hitting a solid object. As well as seeing shots from assault rifles as well should be seen in the dirt so why do we need hit indicators?


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Old 2012-07-10, 09:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #41
Dart
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Re: Hit indicators


Originally Posted by fishirboy View Post
I don't want all the fancy wind things and stuff but this is the bet example for sniping and i relay just don't see how we need hit indicators, if you hit them they will fall over if you don't then you will see sand or a spark from hitting a solid object. As well as seeing shots from assault rifles as well should be seen in the dirt so why do we need hit indicators?
You're really not reading my responses are you? Where YOU see your shots going aren't necessarily where the server is registering them... When you are chasing someone in an aircraft for example - you are both moving at speed. I might be pinging 70ms to the server and you're pinging 50ms. All of those variables (the speed of each of our vehicles, the speed of the projectiles I'm firing, and the distance of each of us to the server) mean that your 'watch and look' method is seriously flawed. Being able to see when you score a hit is a far more standard method of figuring out how much you need to compensate for the variables above.

Since we want PS2 to appeal to as many people as possible (essential in an MMO and something ARMA failed at) making use of industry standard, unobtrusive game mechanics like hit indicators. If you don't want to use them, simply ignore them (or turn them off if there is an option). I know I and most of the rest of the community will use them and enjoy knowing accurately where our shots are landing!
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Old 2012-07-10, 09:33 AM   [Ignore Me] #42
Vreki
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Re: Hit indicators


Originally Posted by Dart View Post
Anyone arguing AGAINST hit indicators has clearly forgotten this is an MMO and we'll all have varying amounts of ping. Without a hit indicator it is incredibly difficult to know how far/fast you need to lead a target to compensate for your individual ping to the server at that specific moment in time.
.
I will have to agree with that. It all fine and well if you have a larger calibre sniper rifle where they either drop dead or you can see the impact.
But try hitting someone crossing in front of you with a semi-automatic weapon, and it becomes a guessing game.
Unless you want their body to jerk each time they are hit by a bullet, no matter how small? I bet that would get old really fast.
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Old 2012-07-10, 09:37 AM   [Ignore Me] #43
fishirboy
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Re: Hit indicators


uhg, if lag was not here in this world then every one who wanted hit indicators would not be valid, there are more pros to having it you win But i hope when I am still alive that lag becomes obsoleat to this world because of how advanced our tec will be .
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Old 2012-07-10, 09:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #44
Karrade
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Re: Hit indicators


Interesting, I can see both arguments as valid.

I'd lean towards hit indicates, if only to help reduce friendly fire. More people will realise they have hit something if FF is highlighted more (I realise it won't define what they have hit.)

Last edited by Karrade; 2012-07-10 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 2012-07-10, 09:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #45
Dart
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Re: Hit indicators


Originally Posted by fishirboy View Post
uhg, if lag was not here in this world then every one who wanted hit indicators would not be valid, there are more pros to having it you win But i hope when I am still alive that lag becomes obsoleat to this world because of how advanced our tec will be .
Wow, really didn't expect you to change your mind. Kudos - takes an open mind to be able to take a step back, evaluate both arguments and change your opinion.
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