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Old 2013-05-03, 12:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #46
moosepoop
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Wink Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


Originally Posted by leifnielsen View Post

The company is always thinking of how it can make the most money though. The more people who throw certs into their tank, the more willing they'll be to buy the good weapons or cosmetic upgrades for it. If MBT's used dedicated drivers, not as many people would pull MBTs, so sales on all MBT weapons and cosmetics would drop.
you and SOE is completely right. more solo mbts means more people spending cash. that has also led to tank spam. at this point need for profit is overcome by need to maintain a balanced playable game.

is that tactic really squeezeing extra money? most tanks stick with vulcan/saron/enforcer. the big bucks is on infantry weapons. smgs, ns guns, shotguns, new max guns. much more stuff to spend money on.

you just cant have that much saturation for a heavy weapons platform, and make it so deadly, durable, and disposable.

this is why SOE is releasing new vehicles intead of even more weapons for the tanks. this way they will spread out the cash spending more evenly. lower player "investment" on mbts, increase vehicle diversity.

Last edited by moosepoop; 2013-05-03 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 2013-05-03, 12:23 AM   [Ignore Me] #47
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


I will just tell the best part today, we where sniping over the stronghold, defending it from the NC.
A stationary heavy was in the middle of the NC snipers, most of the snipers firing at him, lots and lots of hits, everyone telling: omg, immortal heavy!
I pressed Q, the pop name was:
HigbyEast.
Ok, more 200 head shots on him, I was not on steam but I pressed print screen several times, in the worst case I place the screenshot on the paint.
So, most of the platoon went to tawrich and my squad went to circle it around capturing small bases.
In the way to the north base of the stronghold, my sunderer gunners start firing at a heavy both with m60, he was not dead!
Parked the sunderer, hit Q: HigbyEast again?
Lots of c4, mines, rockets, knifes, Harlem shake, I just hope someone recorded it on video!
Ok, everyone back to the sunderer, placed him in front of the sunderer and started push him with us!
It was fun, a full crewed sunderer arriving at the enemy base with a heavy on the hood, it was epic! Too bad he missed after that, I think he looked at the monitor and said: - WTF am I doing in here? How the hell do I get there?

Also the harasser is faster them a flash, much faster, without turbo and upgrade!
A heavy as a don't hit the brakes pilot, a engineer gunner and me as anti air max in the back was awesome! Got lots of anti air kills and when the ESF tried to run we was going so fast that he couldn't get away before I killed him.
Also a max with fracture, we can easily drive by a MBT and hit it hard in the back before he could turn!
Seeing all those flashes getting outrun it was awesome.
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Old 2013-05-03, 12:38 AM   [Ignore Me] #48
Lonehunter
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


Originally Posted by AThreatToYou View Post
Vanguard would be incredibly boring to drive, lol.
Have you tried the Sunderer? or Lightning? or running infantry? Cause it seems that is where you actually belong if you think that : /

And independent driver working with a gunner can do wonders. The situational awareness alone is improved dramatically. LA with C4, incoming fire, infantry...
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Old 2013-05-03, 12:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #49
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


Originally Posted by Whiteagle View Post
AH, but this is where giving the Driver the Secondary Gun has its Silver Lining!

After all, there are MORE Secondary Weapon options then Main Cannons, correct?
you can also have a front mounted tickle gun for the driver, like panzer tank.
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Old 2013-05-03, 12:48 AM   [Ignore Me] #50
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


Originally Posted by Lonehunter View Post

And independent driver working with a gunner can do wonders. The situational awareness alone is improved dramatically. LA with C4, incoming fire, infantry...
ya man, the teamwork involved is really satisfying. in planetside 1 i would jump in a random tank, if we kicked a lot of ass we add each other to buddy list. there was so much comradery from that. magical times, man.

in ps1 everytime i jump in a tank of a driver, i felt like we got each others back, like we were a badass team. it wasnt as fast paced, but the teamwork and coordination made it really intense.

Last edited by moosepoop; 2013-05-03 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 2013-05-03, 12:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #51
Whiteagle
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


Originally Posted by moosepoop View Post
is that tactic really squeezeing extra money? most tanks stick with vulcan/saron/enforcer. the big bucks is on infantry weapons. smgs, ns guns, shotguns, new max guns. much more stuff to spend money on.

you just cant have that much saturation for a heavy weapons platform, and make it so deadly, durable, and disposable.

this is why SOE is releasing new vehicles intead of even more weapons for the tanks. this way they will spread out the cash spending more evenly. lower player "investment" on mbts, increase vehicle diversity.
Well again, I think this is a Market they aren't fully exploiting since the Driver gets the Main Cannon...

You can only add one or two more Factionally-flavored Main Cannons, because how many different variations of "Very Powerful Gun" can you really make?

But Secondaries, with their much lower amount of fire-power, can have far greater variety in both function and mechanics.
Hell, they currently have TWO different common pool Anti-Air weapons, the Default Basilisk, as well as each having their Faction Specific Anti-Infantry and Anti-Armor options on top of the Common Pool ones!

Originally Posted by moosepoop View Post
you can also have a front mounted tickle gun for the driver, like panzer tank.
Now THAT would get boring really quickly...
I'd much rather give them the other gun already ON the Tank then have them complain about being "Taxi Drivers"...
If anything, I'd give them Front Mounted Flamethrowers as an ability if they want to shove their noses into the enemy.

Last edited by Whiteagle; 2013-05-03 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 2013-05-03, 02:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #52
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


To be fair here using the harasser as an example for why we should have crewed tanks is kinda off to me. The harasser is actually fun to drive unlike the current MBTs for one and the harasser was designed with a very different play style in mind than the MBTs are. The harasser is a high speed assault vehicle that puts an emphasis on agility for hit and run style attacks while MBTs are designed with an emphasis on armor and firepower at the expense of agility and speed.

I mean hell the prowlers special anchors it to the damned floor. What exactly is the dedicated driver supposed to do when the tank is in "siege mode"? And as others have said the vanguard is in a similar spot because like the prowler it is big, slow, and clunky to drive. The only MBT with a reasonable degree of maneuverability is the mag which you can make a case for being fun to drive as a result. I will not speak for others but I for one would never touch an MBT if it was dedicated driver/gunner. I didn't touch them in PS1 for that very reason(with the exception of the mag) and I was not the only one.

I understand the reasoning as to why people want crewed tanks(promote teamwork, reduce potential tank spam, etc) and they have valid points. But it is also true that dedicated gunners and drivers on clumsy vehicles like the MBTs is not the most fun game design either. If I was SOE what I would have done is what somebody else said earlier and that is allow the drivers to operate the vehicles secondary weapons while the passenger/gunner crews the vehicles main armament similar to the ps1 magrider or the current lib. This way it necessitates MBTs be crewed by more than one person but also makes driving less boring as the driver can also gun.

But this is an argument that has been hammered to death over time and everything said here is stuff we and the devs have heard before. I just disagree with the idea of using the harasser as an example to further the argument for crewed tanks. The harasser and the MBTs are VERY different in how they handle and the play style they offer. Its like saying ESFs are an example as to why we should make the lib a single person aircraft. Its comparing apples to oranges in my opinion.
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Old 2013-05-03, 02:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #53
Gatekeeper
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


MBTs drivers also getting the main gun has always been my biggest problem with PS2, I would love to see it fixed - and I agree with the OP, the Harasser proves that players have no problem (in principle) being a dedicated driver.

Of course a Harasser is not the same as a MBT, so it doesn't guarantee that people would like being a dedicated tank-driver, but it shows there's no fundamental issue with it (although of course Libs, Sundies and Gals already proved that too, but for some reason people seem to forget that). The devil is in the details, of course, but it's high time SOE gave it a shot.
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Old 2013-05-03, 02:47 AM   [Ignore Me] #54
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


Originally Posted by TheSaltySeagull View Post
I mean hell the prowlers special anchors it to the damned floor. What exactly is the dedicated driver supposed to do when the tank is in "siege mode"?
Every time your gunner scores a hit: Take a shot.

Every time the enemy scores a hit on you: Take a shot.


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Old 2013-05-03, 02:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #55
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


MBT tanks need separate driver from the main gunner.

It is how war works and this game is about war not about farming certs.
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Old 2013-05-03, 02:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #56
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


We can keep the current MBT's and change the "M" to mean medium.

Then release an NS heavy tank with a crew of 3-5. Driver, main gun, secondary chaingun, tertiary mortar, and quadrinary electronic warfare kit (directional radar that you aim, EMP shells, radar jamming, AoE buffs or debuffs, smoke, chaff, flares, etc...). Maybe give the electronics kit to the driver, so they can paint and debuff targets for their crew?

Or just a driver, main, and 2ndary.

Personally, I'd rather pull a Lightning than a Magrider most of the time. It's a faster, smaller target, that takes less damage because it gets noticed and hit less and can use cover that would block a Magrider's main cannon.

The only time it seems reasonable for me to pull a Magrider is if a buddy is out of vehicle resources and needs a lift - it does not have enough staying power to justify putting a 2nd body in it when there are better alternatives available (like 2 Lightnings).

A Heavy tank would need enough armor and firepower to be at least as good as 3-5 Lightnings if it's running a crew of 3-5.

Last edited by Fenrys; 2013-05-03 at 03:15 AM.
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Old 2013-05-03, 03:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #57
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


Whilst I'm in favour of dedicated driver and main gunner, I don't see how the Magrider could be made to work with a dedicated gunner, so I think that we are stuck with the current MBTs as they are. Perhaps they could nerf the main cannon a bit, and buff the secondaries?

I think the future lies in a new breed of heavy tanks with dedicated gunners. Hopefully.

and the Harrasser - what a sound the engine makes! Spot on.
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Old 2013-05-03, 03:32 AM   [Ignore Me] #58
Snydenthur
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


I think it's too early to draw any conclusions. Harrasser came out yesterday, so obviously it is used a lot. Maybe after month or so, if the harrasser is still as popular as now we can think that people actually might like tanks this way too. Or not, since they are two different vehicles for different purposes.
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Old 2013-05-03, 03:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #59
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


I played vanguard driver for years in planetside. I had a dedicated gunner who was pretty much always gunning for me if we were both online at the same time. We went from newbs to cavalry driver platinum - ground gunner platinum together. Without a gun to worry about, my focus was on giving him good firing opportunities and keeping us alive - no sticking around for that last shot if it was probably going to kill us. He grew used to anticipating my movements and learned his shooting timing. Plus we were permently on vent together. We'd be barelling it full pelt through the hills with mosquitos chasing us and he'd tell me when to turn to avoid incoming fire and he;d shoot those damn things right outta the sky while I avoided 90% of their fire.

Awesome times.

If you haven't experienced it, you can't know how great it was.

I'd LOVE to go back to driving full time with a dedicated gunner, probably the thing I miss the most from Planetside.
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Old 2013-05-03, 03:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #60
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Re: harrasser proves dedicated driver is great


Originally Posted by psijaka View Post
Whilst I'm in favour of dedicated driver and main gunner, I don't see how the Magrider could be made to work with a dedicated gunner, so I think that we are stuck with the current MBTs as they are.
That's EASY, make the Top Gun the Main Cannon and the Nose Mount a Secondary!

I don't like the idea of a Heavy Tank added just to please the Crewed Tank Crowd, that doesn't solve the issue of the MBTs being LightningPLUS at all and puts the Lightning in a position where it's even MORE redundent.

Originally Posted by Fenrys View Post
Personally, I'd rather pull a Lightning than a Magrider most of the time. It's a faster, smaller target, that takes less damage because it gets noticed and hit less and can use cover that would block a Magrider's main cannon.

The only time it seems reasonable for me to pull a Magrider is if a buddy is out of vehicle resources and needs a lift - it does not have enough staying power to justify putting a 2nd body in it when there are better alternatives available (like 2 Lightnings).
Well your probably like me, you can't stand the idea of that gun sitting up top with no one in it as ineffeffent... and that your Faction's MBT isn't all that good at Tank on Tank as the Lightning.

The Lightning is currently balanced cost wise at 5:4 with MBTs, meaning that five equally skilled Lightning operators should be at the same level as four MBTs...
But should four 1/2 MBTs be a match for five Lightnings?

Personally I don't think so, but I was under the impression MBTs were 300 Mechanized instead of 250, so that two fully manned MBTs would at least be worth three Lightnings if not more...

I'm of the opinion that Lightnings should have Quantity over the MBTs Quality, one favoring numbers and speed while the other consolidates strength for better coordination.

Originally Posted by Fenrys View Post
A Heavy tank would need enough armor and firepower to be at least as good as 3-5 Lightnings if it's running a crew of 3-5.
Which is where my idea of a Super Heavy comes in, it's not so much a big tank as the land-bound equivalent to an Air Carrier; a massive weapons platform that makes up for its lack of Mobility with Superior Firepower.
They would be less of an offensive vehicle and more of a Mobile Base around which armor columns can form on and regroup behind.
Two of these monster clashing should be like smashing two Major Facilities together, massive amounts of Vehicles and Infantry just pounding away at each other in the hopes that the other sides' Land Battleship is destroyed first.
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