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View Poll Results: Would you like a single person mech in the game? (Please read the thread before posti
I don't like single person bipedal mechs and don't want them in the game 153 75.37%
I want single person mechs, but don't like this implementation. (Explain below) 11 5.42%
I support this implementation 28 13.79%
Other Reason (Explain below) 11 5.42%
Voters: 203. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-07-21, 12:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Sirisian
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New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Before I begin, this thread isn't about BFRs. It's about a single person mech designed from scratch. Looking for input that would balance the idea. I get that some people don't like the look of mechs though. It would be appreciated that if you don't like mechs explain why. I'd be curious what you'd want if they were in.

I always felt that a mech in Planetside should have been a single person outdoor evolution to the MAX units. That is each faction has it's own variant. The design would be similar to a Mad Cat in BattleTech with a custom design for each of the empires geared toward uniform movement. (The vanu would have scale plated armor for instance). The height would be scaled down to the height of 2 players stacked so not very tall but still enough room for a driver.

The armor would be twice as much as the lightning offset with weaknesses I'll describe later. The big change is to move a lot of features off to the skill tree such as shields and flight so having those would cost extra. Also the ammo would be reduced especially on the secondary shoulder weapons so it would need to resupply often.

Since vehicles will have components that can be individually damaged, as explained by Higby, this will work in well. The mech's components can be broken down into:
  • Cockpit
  • Left Arm - When damaged it slows the weapon on the arm or shuts it off
  • Right Arm
  • Left Shoulder - Secondary weapon upgrade slot. If damaged can slow down and shut off
  • Right Shoulder
  • Engines (In the back) - Slows shield regen and flight
  • Left Leg - When damaged the player slows down
  • Right Leg

The skill tree would allow upgrades on the following for instance:
  • Armor - Upgrades plate armor and the visual appearance of the mech
  • Weapons - AI, AV, AA and upgrades like more ammo or rockets. Depends on the empire
  • Legs - mobility upgrades
  • Shields - Unlocks the ability that is controlled by toggled. Upgrades for shield strength. Shares energy with flight
  • Flight - Unlocks the ability and upgrades like strafing along with the duration and thrust power
  • Sensors - To detect and warn about incoming players and vehicles and deployables (like mines).
These upgrades also all change the look of the mech. As a random example, say a player invests in sensors to detect cloakers that are getting close the upgrade would give an obvious cue to tell cloakers of the danger.

More often than not the mech would become immobalized or useless before dying. For instance if some players attacked the legs it might slow down too much to be useful so the player would need to get out and repair it.

Ideally it would need to be backed up by other players and would be vulnerable by itself. Check Repco Catalogue and Autobarn Catalogue. (Bailing onto it for instance, would probably be a valid strategy).

I know some people are going to think this sounds complex, but honestly the amount of skill upgrades Higby said was in the thousands for weapons and vehicle which leads me to believe vehicles are going to have very complex upgrade choices.

I left some stuff out to make the discussion open. I'm also not 100% sure my poll has all the possible options. I've been reading the mech threads from a long time and the recent ones to get an idea of the community's thoughts.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2011-07-21, 12:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
Malorn
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Please let us enjoy our solace of no mech crap in PS2 .
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Old 2011-07-21, 12:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
Lonehunter
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


I'll admit your mech idea is different then BFRs. The problem is a vehicle so powerful that only one person operates. It totally messes with the value of other vehicles. A 3man vehicle crew that has each spent a lot of skills in their trees in my opinion should be more powerful then anything one guy can bring.

This promotes cooperation
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And if you back in 2003 decided you wanted to play RTS games, between then and now you'd have dozens of RTS games you could have played. If you decided to play MMOFPS' between then and now, there were none

Last edited by Lonehunter; 2011-07-21 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 2011-07-21, 12:19 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
Sirisian
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Originally Posted by Lonehunter187 View Post
A 3 man vehicle crew that has each spent a lot of skills in their trees in my opinion should be more powerful then anything one guy can bring.
Yeah I'm imagining a tank shell doing some serious damage to it. Imagine hitting an arm or a shoulder slot on the top (assuming the player didn't unlock the shield and didn't turn it on in time). It might turn off and force the player to retreat. The idea would be an upgraded outdoor MAX so yeah not aiming for an uber killing machine. Just another vehicle.

Last edited by Sirisian; 2011-07-21 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 2011-10-09, 12:43 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
Please let us enjoy our solace of no mech crap in PS2 .
This.
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Old 2011-07-21, 12:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


I don't entirely agree with the ideas for the vehicle, but I have no issues with mechs, provided the walking animations are done properly so that there is no foot sliding or standing at an angle on the side of a hill. Its just another vehicle, with a different look.

Ideally they would be slower than wheeled/tracked/hover vehicles, but would have the greatest ability to climb, and would be a unit suited to mountainous terrain.

I would also call them BFRs just to piss people off.

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2011-07-21 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 2011-07-21, 01:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
kaffis
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


No thanks.

More for the "single person" than the mech aspect.

We have single person mechs. They're called MAXes. And it should stay that way. Anything more powerful, and it's too good for a singler user.

Hell, I'd get rid of Lightnings, if it were up to me. And Reavers would be either two-seaters or lose a lot of their ground support efficacy.

Now, if you want to make MAXes a bit more relevant outdoors, I have no objection. AV MAXes have always struck me as a bit of a joke, for instance, and certainly AI MAXes suffer heavily at outdoor ranges.
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Old 2011-07-21, 01:22 AM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Originally Posted by kaffis View Post
We have single person mechs. They're called MAXes. And it should stay that way. Anything more powerful, and it's too good for a singler user.
MAXs can go indoors. Vehicles can't. MAXs are/were horrible machines for outdoors use, due to a complete lack of self sufficiency(no self repairs like every single other infantry and vehicle in the game) and abysmal speed and hitpoints for a vehicle, even with run mode. Only the AA max was any good, since it had a monster range and could sit back behind the lines.


This would be a pretty cool mech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_AaB...tailpage#t=46s


as would this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyz...ailpage#t=124s

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2011-07-21 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 2011-07-21, 01:48 AM   [Ignore Me] #9
PsychoXR-20
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Originally Posted by kaffis View Post
Hell, I'd get rid of Lightnings, if it were up to me. And Reavers would be either two-seaters or lose a lot of their ground support efficacy.
Reavers and Lightnings are fine. Ironically, Lightnings are fine because of Reavers, and Reavers are fine because of how much god damned AA there is in the game. Does any other role in the game have as many counters, spread across as many roles as air does?

But I hate the idea of mechs. I think they look stupid, and they don't fit in with the theme of of the game, nor with the theme of the technology in the game.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2011-07-21, 01:39 AM   [Ignore Me] #10
Malorn
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


The biggest problem with them is they serve no purpose other than being "cool." They have no role in the game that isnt' filled by other vehicles, which means having them either makes them redundant/irrelevant, or OP because they render the other vehicles useless. And they absolutely need to be multi-manned vehicles, not doing so screws up the entire balance of vehicles which was one of the biggest problems with BFRs.

Just no, christ, people like you wanting something completely valueless in the game is what destroyed Planetside, so please excuse me if I kindly tell you to take your idea and sod off.
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Old 2011-07-21, 02:22 AM   [Ignore Me] #11
CutterJohn
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
They have no role in the game that isnt' filled by other vehicles, which means having them either makes them redundant/irrelevant, or OP because they render the other vehicles useless.
Then replace one of the vehicles with something a bit cooler. Wheres the harm in that? Its a futuristic shooter, but we're running around on ATVs?

Also, there are always more roles that can be added. More nuanced options that split the difference between other vehicles, or add previously missing roles on the battlefield.


Originally Posted by PsychoXR-20 View Post
Does any other role in the game have as many counters, spread across as many roles as air does?
Yes. All of them. Theres a ton of AA because there is a ton of air, and AA is the only viable counter to air, a role held by two units(well, three, counting bfrs). All other ground vehicles, and all infantry, have troubles with air units. Deli's could be a halfway decent AA platform, but even with 3 people, it was less effective than a skyguard.

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2011-07-21 at 02:26 AM.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2011-07-21, 02:43 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
Malorn
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Then replace one of the vehicles with something a bit cooler. Wheres the harm in that? Its a futuristic shooter, but we're running around on ATVs?
Are you suggesting we replace ATVs with mechs? ATVS are lightly armed/armored and are designed for very fast infantry ground transport that is completely lost when you replace them with mechs. They have a specific role, and are fun to drive and zip around on.

Also, there are always more roles that can be added. More nuanced options that split the difference between other vehicles, or add previously missing roles on the battlefield.
If you think of a role not already occupied by an existing vehicle that a mech would be really good at, please let me know.

I'm of the rather solid opinion mechs have no role on their own because they are basically tanks with legs. So you have either tanks or mechs, and tanks are a lot better because
1) they have lower & smaller profiles (thus taking less damage while still peforming their job)
2) more stable shooting platforms (smooth ride vs bobbing from walking)
3) better serve the "armor" role by shielding infantry from small arms (mech legs dont do that very well)
4) faster & more maneuverable

And the only thing mechs have is height for better firing angles, but that comes at the cost of being much easier to hit and thus taking a lot more damage. Steep price.


Yes. All of them. Theres a ton of AA because there is a ton of air, and AA is the only viable counter to air, a role held by two units(well, three, counting bfrs). All other ground vehicles, and all infantry, have troubles with air units. Deli's could be a halfway decent AA platform, but even with 3 people, it was less effective than a skyguard.
The state of air balance for PS2 can't really be gauged effectively by looking at PS1.

* They stated that there would be "viable" infantry anti-air.
* Flying will take a lot more skill so we'll likely see fewer pilots from that alone (and at least fewer effective pilots)
* cert roles means the one-man-army mosq/reaver pilots are unlikely to exist, those players will likely gravitate towards being full on pilots or more infantry-oriented since they cannot do both simultaneously as in PS1
* vehicles can get various upgrades, including anti-air capabilties
* we don't know the state of repair/rearm in PS2 - this was a HUGE factor to the popularity of aircraft in PS1. Before repair-rearm you actually didn't see a lot of aircraft.
* we don't know what sort of vehicle timers exist in PS2 and whether they are on shared cooldowns - this made a big difference also when they cut the timer from 10 and 5 and made it easy to have both mosquito and reaver in a bundle in PS1. That + repair rearm had a drastic increase in aircraft population.

That's a lot of different stuff there and that makes it very difficult to gauge whether we need specific anti-air.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Skyguard get replaced by an empire-specific buggy anti-air upgrade. Though the Thresher with flak guns does sort of seem ridiculously OP.
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Old 2011-07-21, 05:13 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
Are you suggesting we replace ATVs with mechs? ATVS are lightly armed/armored and are designed for very fast infantry ground transport that is completely lost when you replace them with mechs. They have a specific role, and are fun to drive and zip around on.
Who says mechs are slow? A small 1 man deal that weighs couple tons? Could be quite spry. It would be fun to zip around on a mech too.



If you think of a role not already occupied by an existing vehicle that a mech would be really good at, please let me know.

I'm of the rather solid opinion mechs have no role on their own because they are basically tanks with legs. So you have either tanks or mechs, and tanks are a lot better because
1) they have lower & smaller profiles (thus taking less damage while still peforming their job)
2) more stable shooting platforms (smooth ride vs bobbing from walking)
3) better serve the "armor" role by shielding infantry from small arms (mech legs dont do that very well)
4) faster & more maneuverable

And the only thing mechs have is height for better firing angles, but that comes at the cost of being much easier to hit and thus taking a lot more damage. Steep price.
1. Quite true. Though I think you underestimate how tall tanks are. That mech in district 9 would be only slightly higher.
2. I fear you have not spent enough time off road in a wheeled or tracked vehicle, nor on a horse. The ride on rough ground will definitely be smoother on the horse at a canter or gallop since they adjust their legs to the terrain rather than bouncing over it, and the turrets will be stabilized for both anyway.
3. Not all vehicles serve this role, or need to.
4. Faster over certain types of terrain and not as maneuverable.

A mech would not be heavily armored. Foot loading would be too high. They could never be walking tanks, and would fail at the job. Their purpose would be highly mobile scouts/fire support in rough terrain, like mountainous areas and thick forests. They could step over obstacles that would be insurmountable, possibly even climb somewhat with the right foot and leg design. They are tall, sure, but they can turn, sidestep, etc, to fit through tight areas, and are much narrower than tanks/apcs/trucks. Anything you can do or anyplace you can go on legs a mech could pretty much follow, so long as whatever it was supported its weight. Mechs would suck as badly on flat desert as tanks do in the mountains.

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2011-07-21 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 2011-07-21, 01:48 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
Traak
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Mechwarrior was a popular game in the days of yore when PS was launched. I think they were trying to attract the disenchanted MW players with the BFRs. I think Microsoft had announced no more MW games, ever.

Problem is, MW was a simulator that was very well done, where you fought OTHER customizable 'mechs. BFRs were not. Not simulators. Not customizable to any great extent. Not fighting other BFRs (they prefer to pick on softies, and run away shrieking if anything near their weight comes along), and not well done.

BFRs drastically decreased the quality of the game.

Last edited by Traak; 2011-07-21 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 2011-07-22, 01:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
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Re: New single person mechs designed from scratch for PS2


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
Mechwarrior was a popular game in the days of yore when PS was launched. I think they were trying to attract the disenchanted MW players with the BFRs. I think Microsoft had announced no more MW games, ever.

Problem is, MW was a simulator that was very well done, where you fought OTHER customizable 'mechs. BFRs were not. Not simulators. Not customizable to any great extent. Not fighting other BFRs (they prefer to pick on softies, and run away shrieking if anything near their weight comes along), and not well done.

BFRs drastically decreased the quality of the game.

Completely OT but is your a Mech fan.

http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/
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