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Old 2012-08-01, 11:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #181
Gugabalog
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


Not if properly coordinated i.e. by an outfit.
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Old 2012-08-01, 12:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #182
Baneblade
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


Originally Posted by Gugabalog View Post
I would contest that claim and say the prowler would be the best outfit tank as its speed empowers blitzkrieg style tactics. Have infantry in sunderers follow up and unload into capture points and voila. Maybe have a squad of tank camp the spawn tubes if not destroy them too, and have the rest take up different positions to keep the base secure against reinforcements while the infantry clear it out.
The Prowler may indeed be the best universal tank in PS2, but I still believe in an organized armor battle, the Vanguard will come out on top.
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Old 2012-08-01, 01:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #183
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


^ That is true.

NC are best for battles of attrition.

TR are best for blitzkrieg tactics.

VS are best for precision strikes.

Not that any empire is incapable of the other roles, they just excel in these in their default state.
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Old 2012-08-02, 08:54 AM   [Ignore Me] #184
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


So back to the topic :P

I always pictured this idea as the SC2 mothership


I feel like a more symmetrical design is required if you intend to altitude lock the aircraft. That way changing directions looks a lot smoother.
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Old 2012-08-02, 12:12 PM   [Ignore Me] #185
Buggsy
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


Originally Posted by Baneblade View Post
Well the obvious difference is that outfits are usually coordinated, while the zerg tends to not be coordinated.
No they're not.

Of course some outfits are the zerg with a name, while others are the zerg enablers.

A heavy armor outfit on the front lines might be confused with the zerg, till you realize those forty two Vanguards are moving in formations and are alpha striking Sunderers without having to fire twice.
That's zerging

Originally Posted by Gugabalog View Post
^ Depends on the outfit.
I've been in 2 Planetside outfits, and 4 WWIIONLINE outfits, all they are capable of doing is zerging or exploiting game mechanics. Any plan involving more than 1-step is too much for their brains to handle.
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Old 2012-08-02, 12:43 PM   [Ignore Me] #186
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


Buggsy, based on this argument and other posts of yours on this forum, I would say you have been rejected by coordinated outfits and so have no buisness further derailing this.
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Old 2012-08-02, 12:59 PM   [Ignore Me] #187
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


Originally Posted by Lumberchuk View Post
So back to the topic :P

I always pictured this idea as the SC2 mothership


I feel like a more symmetrical design is required if you intend to altitude lock the aircraft. That way changing directions looks a lot smoother.
Well, symmetry is nice, but not strictly necessary:

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Old 2012-08-02, 11:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #188
Psyche
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


{Before I start, let me say I'm not opposed to the idea. I thought of it myself and was thinking about it a few before I realised some of the problems with it. This post isn't to kill the idea but change it into something more viable for the game}

A few problem I found with the idea:
  • Favors certain playstyles over others (aerial units mainly) which would be a problem for non-aerial centric outfits (infantry, armor, Infiltration, etc.)
  • Adds load to general gameplay area[if present there] and disrupts the map layout [bugs will happen and this being mobile will generate more if present in the game area]. My understanding is these won't actually be in the gameplay area but rather in another area above it so most of this point is moot.
  • Believability - its hard to believe something like this being available [regardless of technology] - its large, it wasn't brought here since its planetbound, it has to be built somewhere, it will require a great deal of resources just to maintain it, what happens if this thing fails and falls to ground? it doesn't provide enough benefits/advantages for the cost without entering gameplay area which would disrupt/imbalance the gameplay area.
  • It only enriches the game for some [Outfits] by providing a private lobby/staging area/sanctuary and possible outfit versus outfit battles [air cruiser vs air cruiser] leaving everyone else empty handed [doesn't justify development costs/work - not enough bang for the buck because of this - niche application]
  • It could potentially work as RMT item or Premium benefit (which would justify the increased load on the network datacenter and asset creation) as its basically equal to a leased & private server in online games. Ie. Virtual housing.

These are some of things I thought of to correct the issues I noticed:
  • Use Orbital Platforms {specifically Low Orbital *see below} instead of Air platforms.
    • Easier to maintain and more limited mobility
    • More believable and eliminates reasonable access of base to gameplay area but is close enough to Interact with gameplay area [Drop Pods, Mass Elevators, Rocketed supply loads,etc.]
    • Can accomadate All playstyles via EVA modification (even tanks can move and maneuver in a soft vacuum with maneuver thrusters) while Air Vehicles would still have there inherent mobility advantage.
    • Seperate play area like a seperate continent but a more drastic climate/environment difference. Which could potentially function like an expansion {like Core Combat though hopefully a lot better and not game-breaking to basic game}.
    • Still allow mobility of Outfit Base via Orbital Drift and repositioning so it could hover over a continent and essentially function as a Private Sanctuary [non-gameplay area] if it shifts into Upper Orbit [not instant].
    • Exotic environment but familiar enough to be accessable [Low Orbit is inside Gravity Well just above Ionosphere{re-entry}. Newtonian movement with gravity providing decay/slowdown [EVA systems would concentrate on maintaining altitude/countering gravity but not slowing down movements which would happen regardless of EVA's activity]. World is also basically upside-down (Ionosphere is a 'soft' boundry - it either kills you for going straight in too fast or 'bounces' you back out into vacuum or drops you into base gameplay area because you actually Re-Entered at the right angle & speed & survived but your EVA stuff is WORTHLESS and your free-falling) with Satelites/Orbiting Ships[derelict or partially active]/Orbital Graveyard & Debris Field {Dust fields & micro meteorites & small scrap held in orbit - kind of like Saturns rings but not natural - litter from us} being the Ceiling and where most of the public and more or less permanent ground is [artificial islands]
    • Items/Mods don't translate to Planetside well or at all (they are largely useless planetside).
    • Situation in orbit can indirectly affect Basic Gameplay (provide buffs) via: modifying Orbital strike availability, reduced Drop Pod respawn times, increased sensor range due to Satelite availability, etc.
    • Provides Lore excuse for its existance & production/construction space. These aren't going to built on the planet and launched (modules and/or pieces might be), they are going to be built in orbit (resources might come from planet or Orbital graveyard). Lore: We came here on Ships - well those ships weren't going to land on the planet with anyone onboard surviving so they'd still be there and they would be neutral ground (what ones were still intact and largely functional) as they are our link to earth [no ship = no earth anymore for us]. The contestable area's and source of materials/components/manufacturing capabilities could be derelicts that need to be restored to produce repair parts[self maintenance capability necessary for long range travel] that are used to build the platforms since most planetside facilities will be geared and designed for build planet bound items not space capable items.
    • Always active but not always accessible to everyone - ie. launch windows to get up there but the sky isn't going to dissappear [except for bugs & server crashes, etc.]. Might have to jump continents to get to a portal (shuttle) to get to it [Outfits with bases will have a respawn at there base and easier access].
    • Provides protection against SWG's Ghosttown epidemic & Gamespace maintenance without an unattractive cost to players. Ie. Bases could be parked in Orbit out of play area to avoid cluttering gamespace without actually destroying them and giving players less reason to want to invest in them.
    • Orbital Platforms scale better than an Air Cruiser would. Meaning: You can have dinky small Orbital Platform that say a very small outfit could afford access and an obscenely large orbital platform without it appearing wrong. With an Air Cruiser, by virtue of its environment and it being an artificial element in it, would have a much larger minimum size that might not be as accessable to small outfits while its max reasonable size would too small for an extremely large outfit [ex. a very large Armored oriented Outfit]. Orbital Platforms are also less known to players [most people haven't been in space but have likely seen astronauts/cosmonauts on TV] so the Developers would have more room for error/inaccuracies in the environment than Air Cruisers which is in Atmosphere [despite differences in upper atmosphere that are very different and unknown to most people but they probably won't realise just how different and assume its wrong].

I decided on Low Orbit instead of full space because Space while popular is a niche in gaming. Most people don't like space games unless they non-spacey enough to be easily accessable. Making a dumbed-down space would come across as cheap to a lot PS vets I think, it wouldn't give a sense of progression or accomplishment by getting better at it/learning about it. Which would mean SOE would have to provide some other reward that would likely mess up the base game. Low Orbit is about as non-spacey a space game can get and still be an actual space game.
Why?:
  • Gravity is still present and its almost a low gravity moon environment except for the lack of land surface. Which has been experimented with in various games in isolated areas within them, it was largely well recieved where it was used like this.
  • Land Surface can reasonably be added to the environment to make it more accessable to players without it seeming out of place or wrong to players or space enthusiasts.
  • Its close enough to the base game area to expect interaction between the two environments while still allowing radical differences.
  • Its a small contained area instead of an extremely large open area and can be presented as a 2d area with altitude instead of being a full 3D area. Which makes technical/asset requirements for it a lot less than having a whole other set of code/assets/functions that would be optimised for 3D to support core game feature [massive player battles].

Here is my fabricated 'excuse' for how it would work:
The Orbital platform essentially floats on the surface of the Ionosphere just like a ship uses bouyancy to float on water. It does this using magnetics as the Ionosphere is charged matter/ozone layer of the atmosphere. The magnetics doesn't hold the Platform up, it actually clamps it down to it. It still have station keeping drives to maintain a stable orbit and allowing to maneuver using mainly drift caused by movement/wind/flow of the Ionosphere particles which is constant and normal. It also taps or scrapes the Ionosphere to generate power via Energy dump of the Ionosphere particles [Ionosphere is what burns stuff up during re-entry because it has a large amount of energy in it [its basically plasma or effectively a natural energy shield that blocks radiation/other energy by reflecting because the particles are already overcharged and will only allow certain wavelengths of energy that can 'fit' in] using Thermal power generation as well as providing a source of matter [the particles themselves, ie. Resources for various uses].

The core Platforms are built from the remains of the Fleet that brought humans here and most refurbishing & manufacturing must be done in space by the few remaining Fleet vessels as they are the only manufacturing facilities designed to produce components/parts that are space-capable for maintenance purposes. New technology advances need to modified to be operable in space. Consequently, maintaining Orbital Platforms allows for more frequent and efficient transfers between plantbound facilities and Orbital facilities as the platforms eliminate most of the problems of re-entry & achieving orbit effectively acting as gates between the planet and space.

Allowing New technology and planetary resources to be used for space advancement and unfortunately have caused a 'space race' and perpetual conflict in orbit frequently centered around the Orbital Platforms and the remaining manufacturing facilities regardless of the operational state of the facilities as the faction struggle for an advantage either by taking each others facilities, refurbishing derelict facilities or manufacturing new ones.

Surviving Fleet personell(SOE/Dev's) have been declared 'Neutral' in the conflicts though some have declared alliegance to certain factions {*cough*cough* lousy NC lovers} and have retreated to geostationary orbit between Auraxis and one of its moons {edit: not sure if there are any} to monitor the situation for any potential catastrophic events occuring due to Orbital decay and successful re-entry of orbital bodies.

{A Dev/GM Staging area aka Outfit base to help with like Live events and is outside the accessable play area unless your using the Development Client Build. Live events play havoc on Network resources [easy to test & prep for Live events because your in the Live but in a redundant area] and most Players like to 'kill' Dev's they see in game [giving GM's a private game/social area when needed - ie. porting a player with them to a chamber here so they can 'talk' etc.]. In Live Game test environment are a lot more effective for reproducing and/or testing bugs/glitches since your in the same environment to get a 'look' at the Live version of them - doing that in a simulated environment requires duplicating all factors that cause it and often some will be left out. Not to mention a place to 'park' there toons without getting killed when they are just playing. The SOE Outfit base which will be a lot better than anything any of us will ever get.}

{EDIT: THAT IS A VERY LONG POST...and I spent 6 hours typing it in due to being pulled away by Daily RL stuff. Hope its useful.}

Last edited by Psyche; 2012-08-02 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 2012-08-03, 11:36 AM   [Ignore Me] #189
Gugabalog
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
{Before I start, let me say I'm not opposed to the idea. I thought of it myself and was thinking about it a few before I realised some of the problems with it. This post isn't to kill the idea but change it into something more viable for the game}

A few problem I found with the idea:
  • Favors certain playstyles over others (aerial units mainly) which would be a problem for non-aerial centric outfits (infantry, armor, Infiltration, etc.)
  • Adds load to general gameplay area[if present there] and disrupts the map layout [bugs will happen and this being mobile will generate more if present in the game area]. My understanding is these won't actually be in the gameplay area but rather in another area above it so most of this point is moot.
  • Believability - its hard to believe something like this being available [regardless of technology] - its large, it wasn't brought here since its planetbound, it has to be built somewhere, it will require a great deal of resources just to maintain it, what happens if this thing fails and falls to ground? it doesn't provide enough benefits/advantages for the cost without entering gameplay area which would disrupt/imbalance the gameplay area.
  • It only enriches the game for some [Outfits] by providing a private lobby/staging area/sanctuary and possible outfit versus outfit battles [air cruiser vs air cruiser] leaving everyone else empty handed [doesn't justify development costs/work - not enough bang for the buck because of this - niche application]
  • It could potentially work as RMT item or Premium benefit (which would justify the increased load on the network datacenter and asset creation) as its basically equal to a leased & private server in online games. Ie. Virtual housing.

These are some of things I thought of to correct the issues I noticed:
  • Use Orbital Platforms {specifically Low Orbital *see below} instead of Air platforms.
    • Easier to maintain and more limited mobility
    • More believable and eliminates reasonable access of base to gameplay area but is close enough to Interact with gameplay area [Drop Pods, Mass Elevators, Rocketed supply loads,etc.]
    • Can accomadate All playstyles via EVA modification (even tanks can move and maneuver in a soft vacuum with maneuver thrusters) while Air Vehicles would still have there inherent mobility advantage.
    • Seperate play area like a seperate continent but a more drastic climate/environment difference. Which could potentially function like an expansion {like Core Combat though hopefully a lot better and not game-breaking to basic game}.
    • Still allow mobility of Outfit Base via Orbital Drift and repositioning so it could hover over a continent and essentially function as a Private Sanctuary [non-gameplay area] if it shifts into Upper Orbit [not instant].
    • Exotic environment but familiar enough to be accessable [Low Orbit is inside Gravity Well just above Ionosphere{re-entry}. Newtonian movement with gravity providing decay/slowdown [EVA systems would concentrate on maintaining altitude/countering gravity but not slowing down movements which would happen regardless of EVA's activity]. World is also basically upside-down (Ionosphere is a 'soft' boundry - it either kills you for going straight in too fast or 'bounces' you back out into vacuum or drops you into base gameplay area because you actually Re-Entered at the right angle & speed & survived but your EVA stuff is WORTHLESS and your free-falling) with Satelites/Orbiting Ships[derelict or partially active]/Orbital Graveyard & Debris Field {Dust fields & micro meteorites & small scrap held in orbit - kind of like Saturns rings but not natural - litter from us} being the Ceiling and where most of the public and more or less permanent ground is [artificial islands]
    • Items/Mods don't translate to Planetside well or at all (they are largely useless planetside).
    • Situation in orbit can indirectly affect Basic Gameplay (provide buffs) via: modifying Orbital strike availability, reduced Drop Pod respawn times, increased sensor range due to Satelite availability, etc.
    • Provides Lore excuse for its existance & production/construction space. These aren't going to built on the planet and launched (modules and/or pieces might be), they are going to be built in orbit (resources might come from planet or Orbital graveyard). Lore: We came here on Ships - well those ships weren't going to land on the planet with anyone onboard surviving so they'd still be there and they would be neutral ground (what ones were still intact and largely functional) as they are our link to earth [no ship = no earth anymore for us]. The contestable area's and source of materials/components/manufacturing capabilities could be derelicts that need to be restored to produce repair parts[self maintenance capability necessary for long range travel] that are used to build the platforms since most planetside facilities will be geared and designed for build planet bound items not space capable items.
    • Always active but not always accessible to everyone - ie. launch windows to get up there but the sky isn't going to dissappear [except for bugs & server crashes, etc.]. Might have to jump continents to get to a portal (shuttle) to get to it [Outfits with bases will have a respawn at there base and easier access].
    • Provides protection against SWG's Ghosttown epidemic & Gamespace maintenance without an unattractive cost to players. Ie. Bases could be parked in Orbit out of play area to avoid cluttering gamespace without actually destroying them and giving players less reason to want to invest in them.
    • Orbital Platforms scale better than an Air Cruiser would. Meaning: You can have dinky small Orbital Platform that say a very small outfit could afford access and an obscenely large orbital platform without it appearing wrong. With an Air Cruiser, by virtue of its environment and it being an artificial element in it, would have a much larger minimum size that might not be as accessable to small outfits while its max reasonable size would too small for an extremely large outfit [ex. a very large Armored oriented Outfit]. Orbital Platforms are also less known to players [most people haven't been in space but have likely seen astronauts/cosmonauts on TV] so the Developers would have more room for error/inaccuracies in the environment than Air Cruisers which is in Atmosphere [despite differences in upper atmosphere that are very different and unknown to most people but they probably won't realise just how different and assume its wrong].

I decided on Low Orbit instead of full space because Space while popular is a niche in gaming. Most people don't like space games unless they non-spacey enough to be easily accessable. Making a dumbed-down space would come across as cheap to a lot PS vets I think, it wouldn't give a sense of progression or accomplishment by getting better at it/learning about it. Which would mean SOE would have to provide some other reward that would likely mess up the base game. Low Orbit is about as non-spacey a space game can get and still be an actual space game.
Why?:
  • Gravity is still present and its almost a low gravity moon environment except for the lack of land surface. Which has been experimented with in various games in isolated areas within them, it was largely well recieved where it was used like this.
  • Land Surface can reasonably be added to the environment to make it more accessable to players without it seeming out of place or wrong to players or space enthusiasts.
  • Its close enough to the base game area to expect interaction between the two environments while still allowing radical differences.
  • Its a small contained area instead of an extremely large open area and can be presented as a 2d area with altitude instead of being a full 3D area. Which makes technical/asset requirements for it a lot less than having a whole other set of code/assets/functions that would be optimised for 3D to support core game feature [massive player battles].

Here is my fabricated 'excuse' for how it would work:
The Orbital platform essentially floats on the surface of the Ionosphere just like a ship uses bouyancy to float on water. It does this using magnetics as the Ionosphere is charged matter/ozone layer of the atmosphere. The magnetics doesn't hold the Platform up, it actually clamps it down to it. It still have station keeping drives to maintain a stable orbit and allowing to maneuver using mainly drift caused by movement/wind/flow of the Ionosphere particles which is constant and normal. It also taps or scrapes the Ionosphere to generate power via Energy dump of the Ionosphere particles [Ionosphere is what burns stuff up during re-entry because it has a large amount of energy in it [its basically plasma or effectively a natural energy shield that blocks radiation/other energy by reflecting because the particles are already overcharged and will only allow certain wavelengths of energy that can 'fit' in] using Thermal power generation as well as providing a source of matter [the particles themselves, ie. Resources for various uses].

The core Platforms are built from the remains of the Fleet that brought humans here and most refurbishing & manufacturing must be done in space by the few remaining Fleet vessels as they are the only manufacturing facilities designed to produce components/parts that are space-capable for maintenance purposes. New technology advances need to modified to be operable in space. Consequently, maintaining Orbital Platforms allows for more frequent and efficient transfers between plantbound facilities and Orbital facilities as the platforms eliminate most of the problems of re-entry & achieving orbit effectively acting as gates between the planet and space.

Allowing New technology and planetary resources to be used for space advancement and unfortunately have caused a 'space race' and perpetual conflict in orbit frequently centered around the Orbital Platforms and the remaining manufacturing facilities regardless of the operational state of the facilities as the faction struggle for an advantage either by taking each others facilities, refurbishing derelict facilities or manufacturing new ones.

Surviving Fleet personell(SOE/Dev's) have been declared 'Neutral' in the conflicts though some have declared alliegance to certain factions {*cough*cough* lousy NC lovers} and have retreated to geostationary orbit between Auraxis and one of its moons {edit: not sure if there are any} to monitor the situation for any potential catastrophic events occuring due to Orbital decay and successful re-entry of orbital bodies.

{A Dev/GM Staging area aka Outfit base to help with like Live events and is outside the accessable play area unless your using the Development Client Build. Live events play havoc on Network resources [easy to test & prep for Live events because your in the Live but in a redundant area] and most Players like to 'kill' Dev's they see in game [giving GM's a private game/social area when needed - ie. porting a player with them to a chamber here so they can 'talk' etc.]. In Live Game test environment are a lot more effective for reproducing and/or testing bugs/glitches since your in the same environment to get a 'look' at the Live version of them - doing that in a simulated environment requires duplicating all factors that cause it and often some will be left out. Not to mention a place to 'park' there toons without getting killed when they are just playing. The SOE Outfit base which will be a lot better than anything any of us will ever get.}

{EDIT: THAT IS A VERY LONG POST...and I spent 6 hours typing it in due to being pulled away by Daily RL stuff. Hope its useful.}
/SUPPORT!

Maybe /thread too?
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Old 2012-08-03, 12:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #190
Psyche
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


Originally Posted by Gugabalog View Post
/SUPPORT!

Maybe /thread too?
Thank you, after checking my post I actually [yes really] meant to put a few more details/theories/information in, but didn't due to distruptions and lack of proofing.

I'll to add them in later when I have time and [hopefully] get all of them in using colored text to highlight the updated sections.
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Old 2012-08-03, 07:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #191
Buggsy
Sergeant Major
 
Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


Originally Posted by Gugabalog View Post
Buggsy, based on this argument and other posts of yours on this forum, I would say you have been rejected by coordinated outfits and so have no buisness further derailing this.
How could I join 6 outfits if I were "rejected by coordinated outfits"? You're just being antagonistic, welcome to the ignore list.
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Old 2012-08-03, 07:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #192
Gugabalog
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


Originally Posted by Buggsy View Post
How could I join 6 outfits if I were "rejected by coordinated outfits"? You're just being antagonistic, welcome to the ignore list.
Because those 6 outfits were likely casual outfits.

When I say judging by your other posts I say so because often they are defensive. I'm just stating for the record that I rarely see you being constructive.

ON TOPIC:

I totally support the Low Orbit Platform idea.
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Old 2012-08-03, 09:24 PM   [Ignore Me] #193
berzerkerking
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


Originally Posted by Baneblade View Post
Well, symmetry is nice, but not strictly necessary:

always struck me as more of and avengers type flying aircraft carrier too
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Old 2012-08-04, 12:02 AM   [Ignore Me] #194
Baneblade
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


I've been resisting this for as long as I could... but I guess I have to address it sometime.

Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
{Before I start, let me say I'm not opposed to the idea. I thought of it myself and was thinking about it a few before I realised some of the problems with it. This post isn't to kill the idea but change it into something more viable for the game}
As with anything, your thoughts deserve fair consideration.

A few problem I found with the idea:

Favors certain playstyles over others (aerial units mainly) which would be a problem for non-aerial centric outfits (infantry, armor, Infiltration, etc.)
Well considering War Machine is an armorcentric outfit, I believe we blow that theory out of the water. The idea was designed to not be air centric any more than a water navy would be ground centric.

Adds load to general gameplay area[if present there] and disrupts the map layout [bugs will happen and this being mobile will generate more if present in the game area]. My understanding is these won't actually be in the gameplay area but rather in another area above it so most of this point is moot.
Bugs are not a valid reason to use against a game feature. Bugs are meant to be fixed, not used as excuses. As for the load on hardware, not any more than a base or those same players in smaller vehicles would be. If anything, I'd reckon the load would be a wash.

Believability - its hard to believe something like this being available [regardless of technology] - its large, it wasn't brought here since its planetbound, it has to be built somewhere, it will require a great deal of resources just to maintain it, what happens if this thing fails and falls to ground? it doesn't provide enough benefits/advantages for the cost without entering gameplay area which would disrupt/imbalance the gameplay area.
I don't believe that a suspension of belief is required for air cruisers to exist. Aircraft already have futuristic VTOL propulsion that seems to break the traditional rules of flight. I see no reason that the Avengers carrier, for example, couldn't be using `Iron Man` esque propulsion in PlanetSide 2. As for resources, they should be expensive and they will likely require dedicated launch and maintenance facilities.

It only enriches the game for some [Outfits] by providing a private lobby/staging area/sanctuary and possible outfit versus outfit battles [air cruiser vs air cruiser] leaving everyone else empty handed [doesn't justify development costs/work - not enough bang for the buck because of this - niche application]
I beg to differ. Any special 'base' for outfits could be canceled due to that logic. I see no reason that an outfit with the organization and drive to bring an air cruiser to support their empire should not be able to do so.

It could potentially work as RMT item or Premium benefit (which would justify the increased load on the network datacenter and asset creation) as its basically equal to a leased & private server in online games. Ie. Virtual housing.
Your RMT thing is the real problem you were trying to address above. OACs should never be bought with SC.

These are some of things I thought of to correct the issues I noticed:

Use Orbital Platforms {specifically Low Orbital *see below} instead of Air platforms.
Which completely eviscerates one of the entire reasons this idea exists in the first place: A real naval aspect to the game that does not require special maps or a vast rework of the way the game functions fundamentally. These are supposed to enhance the conflict, not take away from it.

More believable and eliminates reasonable access of base to gameplay area but is close enough to Interact with gameplay area [Drop Pods, Mass Elevators, Rocketed supply loads,etc.]
Which again completely sodomizes the entire point of outfit air cruisers, to keep outfit assets 'in the game' and important to the conflict. Invulnerable orbiting stations remove players from the actual war for no reason.

Can accomadate All playstyles via EVA modification (even tanks can move and maneuver in a soft vacuum with maneuver thrusters) while Air Vehicles would still have there inherent mobility advantage.
And you claimed air cruisers were unbelievable.

Seperate play area like a seperate continent but a more drastic climate/environment difference. Which could potentially function like an expansion {like Core Combat though hopefully a lot better and not game-breaking to basic game}.
The evil word there is 'separate'. Adding more play fields is one thing, but denying them to the majority of the players in their chosen roles is another.

Still allow mobility of Outfit Base via Orbital Drift and repositioning so it could hover over a continent and essentially function as a Private Sanctuary [non-gameplay area] if it shifts into Upper Orbit [not instant].
I don't see the point.

Exotic environment but familiar enough to be accessable [Low Orbit is inside Gravity Well just above Ionosphere{re-entry}. Newtonian movement with gravity providing decay/slowdown [EVA systems would concentrate on maintaining altitude/countering gravity but not slowing down movements which would happen regardless of EVA's activity]. World is also basically upside-down (Ionosphere is a 'soft' boundry - it either kills you for going straight in too fast or 'bounces' you back out into vacuum or drops you into base gameplay area because you actually Re-Entered at the right angle & speed & survived but your EVA stuff is WORTHLESS and your free-falling) with Satelites/Orbiting Ships[derelict or partially active]/Orbital Graveyard & Debris Field {Dust fields & micro meteorites & small scrap held in orbit - kind of like Saturns rings but not natural - litter from us} being the Ceiling and where most of the public and more or less permanent ground is [artificial islands]
It sounds like you want Core Combat in reverse, and it will suffer the same problem: Next to zero interest beyond the initial new content phase. Players don't like to be separated from 'the battle'.

Provides protection against SWG's Ghosttown epidemic & Gamespace maintenance without an unattractive cost to players. Ie. Bases could be parked in Orbit out of play area to avoid cluttering gamespace without actually destroying them and giving players less reason to want to invest in them.
SWG's planets had four times the land area (in square km) and 10% or less of the population than PlanetSide 2. Somehow I don't think we have to worry about empty outfit stuff.

Orbital Platforms scale better than an Air Cruiser would. Meaning: You can have dinky small Orbital Platform that say a very small outfit could afford access and an obscenely large orbital platform without it appearing wrong. With an Air Cruiser, by virtue of its environment and it being an artificial element in it, would have a much larger minimum size that might not be as accessable to small outfits while its max reasonable size would too small for an extremely large outfit [ex. a very large Armored oriented Outfit]. Orbital Platforms are also less known to players [most people haven't been in space but have likely seen astronauts/cosmonauts on TV] so the Developers would have more room for error/inaccuracies in the environment than Air Cruisers which is in Atmosphere [despite differences in upper atmosphere that are very different and unknown to most people but they probably won't realise just how different and assume its wrong].
Arbitrarily complicated supposition with no logical basis. Every argument you try to ascribe to air cruisers goes ten fold for anything in orbit.

{EDIT: THAT IS A VERY LONG POST...and I spent 6 hours typing it in due to being pulled away by Daily RL stuff. Hope its useful.}
You are on to something and I'd like to see where it goes from here. I recommend you clean it up some more, verify some of your assumptions, and post it in its own topic. Fronting it as a counter proposal to my idea indicates a lack of confidence and won't really help you keep it in discussion circles.

There is no reason both can't be used at some point and I don't believe it will help your idea to be hiding in the skirt of this thread.
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Old 2012-08-04, 11:00 AM   [Ignore Me] #195
Gugabalog
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Re: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux


I'm in support of L.O.P. simply because they affect the land war but not directly, that combined with the spacey nature of it without having to rework the physics makes it seem fun *and* doable.
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