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Old 2012-08-30, 07:54 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Baneblade
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The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


In Tampa, six states filed to nominate Ron Paul 1 hour before nominations were officially announced. The result was a last minute rule change to eight states being required instead of five, just in case a seventh showed up. Ron Paul was already denied a speaking role due to his unwillingness to endorse Mitt Romney and submit to an approved speech.

While the treatment of Ron Paul may seem like a minor annoyance to the Romney camp, Paul is what he needed to beat Obama. This is Barry's election to lose now.

But what does this mean for the future of the Republican Party? Well for starters, the RNC completely alienated their younger support. When the old hats die off, and the liberty base become more mainstream, the Republican Party won't be able to wrangle control back into the hands of tradition.

As soon as 2016, we may have a triad party system as the liberty base, Tea Party, and 'Paulbots' abandon the Republicans for good. Which will be better for everyone, because it would similarly declaw the caustic Democratic Party as well. The Occupiers are no doubt unhappy with the Dems unwillingness to deal with their issues.

Freedom and Prosperity lost in Tampa, but what we won may be worth the setback. We won the knowledge of the failure of the establishment's ability to silence us. We own the defeat and will be forged stronger than before.

Thank you Nevada, Minnesota, Iowa, Oregon, Alaska, and the Virgin Islands for standing up against the machine.
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Old 2012-08-30, 10:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


If Paul couldn't win the Republican primary for President what makes you think he can win in a general election?
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Old 2012-08-30, 10:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


You need to look beyond the blue and red aspects of the system. Paul was energizing people from both the left and the right. In a direct confrontation with Obama, he would win by a landslide, especially given Obama's increasingly discouraging antics. Romney was barely energizing himself, let alone his base. The guy is as wet fish as Kerry. So it is Obama's election to lose.
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Old 2012-08-30, 03:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


If Ron Paul won the election. He would be a paper tiger. Nothing. Both parties would align against him and he would get nothing done, unless he broke his own beliefs and did a bunch of executive orders or something of the such.


That's if he could somehow manage to win a majority as a third part canidate, which I might add...nobody has come close to even doing. Ross Perot only managed 16 or 17 %.


Real change will have to come from congressmen and senators.
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Old 2012-08-31, 04:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


Originally Posted by Baneblade View Post
In Tampa, six states filed to nominate Ron Paul 1 hour before nominations were officially announced. The result was a last minute rule change to eight states being required instead of five, just in case a seventh showed up.
Lawl.

"But it's not a final selection debate, it's just a propganda show and we got an hour of advertising time where we can't have internal struggles at the last minute!"

Brilliant.

Slightly true they can't afford the split, but, at the same time, it's the death of free speech within the party. If you have rules and you're going to change those rules if it doesn't suit you, then you're not just a bunch of soor arse losers if someone plays by the rules, you're unsuitable to lead a country.

But hey, that is pretty much how the Republican Party deals with diplomacy and state affairs in general: don't like it, change the rules, bribe people, (threaten to) invade foreign nations (even hypothetically invading allies with the The Hague Act) and generally screw over anyone that doesn't dance to their tune. So yeah.

Why would one vote Republican? Are these your norms and values? You've won the Bush elections before through fraud.

Meanwhile, some committee members suggested meddling was at play. A bus full of Virginia delegates arrived at the committee meeting - after it had adjourned.

"The bus that was supposed to pick up the Virginia delegation arrived an hour later than it was supposed to," explained Virginia delegate Morton Blackwell, a prime opponent of Rule 16.

Blackwell continued: "And then when we went downtown, we went around the same series of blocks repeatedly – twice. And then the bus took out away from downtown, went about a mile and a half, and then did a u-turn and came back. And did another circuit, of the same place where we had been before. And at that point, the Virginia delegates demanded, 'Stop the bus. And we're going to walk.' And we did."

Mike Rothfeld, a Virginia delegate also on the bus, went further.

"They pushed us around for 45 minutes and then we missed the meeting," Rothfeld said.

"We were in the security perimeter, they pushed us out of it three separate times. They moved us around until the meeting was adjourned."

Sebern claimed the snafu was "deliberate."

Neither she nor the others recalling the story would say who they were directing their anger at. And none could provide proof to back up their claims.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...-drama-at-rnc/

I mean. LOL. Putin tactics. Sorry to say, but rigging votings is truly a Republican thing. Just look over any voting scandals in the US over the past 20 years. It's almost always the Republicans. Almost, since it seems to become a nationwide thing in your country to just rig votes.

http://prospect.org/article/fraud-voting-scandals-0

Last edited by Figment; 2012-08-31 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 2012-08-31, 06:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


According to the Democrats, election fraud doesn't exist.
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Old 2012-08-31, 07:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


Originally Posted by Baneblade View Post
According to the Democrats, election fraud doesn't exist.
In person voter fraud does not happen (.00004% over last 10+ years). Thats different than hiding bags of votes (ohio), ignoring absentee ballots, hanging chads (florida).Voter photo id's will not stop any of the last 3.
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Old 2012-08-31, 04:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


Originally Posted by Baneblade View Post
According to the Democrats, election fraud doesn't exist.
I know you're joking probably, but I just talked to a Republican Tea Party member that said this to me. "Without strict voter ID election fraud by the liberals will steal the election! They just go and vote for other people!" My friend and I had to calmly explain that democrats are actually not against voter ID just it's pointless implementation. Pulled up statistics for it and he was like "oh, I heard it was much higher". (He listens to conservative talk radio and reads nothing but tea party propaganda).

It really makes me a bit dissapointed how many lies are filling up the election this year. They seem to always be there, but what with the VP speech recently and other republicans like Akin and such and Romney it's becoming ridiculous and corrosive to the right's whole thinking. Especially those who are quoting it all as facts.

Last edited by Sirisian; 2012-08-31 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 2012-08-31, 05:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


Facts? In politics?
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Old 2012-09-04, 07:31 AM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


Originally Posted by Baneblade View Post
According to the Democrats, election fraud doesn't exist.
I'm pretty sure more people are killed by donkeys every year than commit election fraud. Considering that in Tennessee, there have been 14 cases of voter fraud in twelve years.
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Old 2012-09-04, 09:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy View Post
I'm pretty sure more people are killed by donkeys every year than commit election fraud. Considering that in Tennessee, there have been 14 cases of voter fraud in twelve years.
If dead people are on the voting rolls and someone votes under their name....who's going to complain? ...........
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Old 2012-09-04, 10:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


Originally Posted by ziegler View Post
If dead people are on the voting rolls and someone votes under their name....who's going to complain? ...........
If you have a working vote system and administration of deaths, the voter registry upon someone waving the ticket at the ballot office. Meaning it should be impossible to do so unless your government doesn't properly apply census checks.


Now tampering with electronic devices or applying voter suppression, gerrimandering districts, "losing" bags full of votes... Now that's nifty fraud.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/10981...on-voter-fraud


Also a fun video on-topic.
http://player.vimeo.com/video/48599478

Also found here as reading:
http://truth-out.org/news/item/11304-the-party-is-over

Last edited by Figment; 2012-09-04 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 2012-09-04, 02:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
If you have a working vote system and administration of deaths, the voter registry upon someone waving the ticket at the ballot office. Meaning it should be impossible to do so unless your government doesn't properly apply census checks.
I wont deny we have many different issues with the voter sysetm. voter fraud is one of them. We have the federal govenment trying to stop the voter registry from being purged of non-citizens and dead people.....why? becauase it's racist? ....

It's not a big deal to show up with a valid ID. IF you somehow dont have one, you can get one for free if not very cheap. I dont have an issue with it, my son who is not able to get a valid id right now due to his biological father messing shit up, so its gonna take a grand to get his valid id. We both still think having one is required for voting. Living in Tn.
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Old 2012-09-04, 11:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


Originally Posted by ziegler View Post
. I dont have an issue with it, my son who is not able to get a valid id right now due to his biological father messing shit up, so its gonna take a grand to get his valid id. We both still think having one is required for voting. Living in Tn.
Two questions, kinda.

A.)Are you shelling out a grand to get him an ID so he can vote?

B.) If didn't have a grand to do so...would you still think it is worth that?


Also, just because you don't have an issue shelling out money for a "cheap" approved ID(remember...some states aren't accepting college IDs) in order to vote...makes it far from right.
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Old 2012-09-05, 06:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #15
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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Republican Party?


National IDs and a proper voter registry prevent the fast majority of fraud and that has nothing to do with violation of privacy. It is a basic necessity for a paper trail to check if fraud is committed. It would be a violation of privacy if they registered not just that you voted, but what you voted! Comparing ID requirement with the Soviet Union and other communist countries where a pass from a specific political party was required is absolutely ludicrous. Not having a proper paper trail you can check and verify if the elections were fair or manipulated, THAT is comparable to communist countries! Fighting to be free of any form of administration around elections is fighting in favour of corruption and about becoming a banana republic.



At our elections, you have to proof who you say you are so you aren't stealing someone else's vote. If you want to vote for your spouse or someone else, you need to have at least a copy of a valid ID of theirs and a signed mandate from that person. You can only vote for at most two other people and you have to vote for them while casting your own vote to prevent obvious mass fraud exploits. Like say people recruiting or purchasing votes, or people driving in busses from one voting booth to the next (ring a bell?).

Acceptable are basic IDs, such as a driver's license, passport or other official national or EU ID or at the very least a police confirmation that your passport was stolen.

We don't have district tied elections to avoid gerrimandering (proportional representation on every level of government where direct elections are involved, on a senate level (1st chamber) there's indirect elections by the provincialy, proportionaly elected representatives. Though the amount of voters are less due to only representatives voting, here again proportional elections is the rule).

You are allowed to vote anywhere in your home town, or you can get permission from your mayor to vote in another town, whatever is the case you can only vote once because every person gets a single voting pass with watermarks and other checks to ensure it's the real thing. People have to submit this at the ballots in order to get their voting form.

To be elligible for voting, you simply have to either be a Dutch citizen or a registered resident (meaning you have permission to live and work here). Illegals can't vote as they don't get a pass. People that died are put on a list of invalid passes. Passes of people that moved to another community after a pass has been provided are also cancelled and a new one has to be used (this to avoid someone voting twice).

Campaigning is not allowed indoors, this includes the voting booth committee who's not allowed to make any political statements or wear clothing that would suggest bias. People are not allowed to be with more than one person in the booth, unless so heavily handicapped they can't operate the pen themselves. Explanation of how to vote is allowed at the table of the committee, but not in the booth. All voting booth volunteers are assigned randomly to a booth in another district than their own. This to prevent intimidation and further manipulation by pressuring or pre-determining who's with you in the district's committee. At the end of the day, each volunteer must sign the end results, indicating that they agree with the count, if one signature is missing, it can be cause for a recount.

We had electronic voting booths in the past, but since there's even a minimal chance those might be hacked, pre-programmed or otherwise disrupted, we've gone back to voting on paper with a red pencil. When votes are count, any citizen has the right to observe the process, but they may not interfere (they may however file a protest).

We'll be having elections next week (the 12th) and I'll be part of a booth committee (responsible for tallying votes vs passes used and of course to help count the votes at the end of the day).


I don't really see why you would do it any other way, unless you're interested in manipulating the results, of course. I personally feel all the above are important for fair elections. Hence I don't think your elections are fair what with the arbitrary state rules, first past the post system and electoral college. Not to mention the legalised bribing of politicians by lobby groups and corporations.

That vid I posted yesterday I can fully agree with.

Last edited by Figment; 2012-09-05 at 06:59 AM.
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