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Old 2012-06-06, 04:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #46
SKYeXile
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Re: "Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi


yea having healing beams puts a requirment on having them and if you do that squads are prettymuch gonna be half medic half whatever ifs the most effective at killing...and just roll around circle jerking heals. and if you dont do that...you're gonna get crushed.

obviously if its like global agenda/tf2/firefall...it could be different, then again...it could not be.
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Old 2012-06-06, 05:23 AM   [Ignore Me] #47
Memeotis
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Re: "Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi


My post was moved. Scroll down. :P

Last edited by Memeotis; 2012-06-06 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 2012-06-06, 05:43 AM   [Ignore Me] #48
NewSith
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Re: "Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi


PEOPLE, are you really wanting to turn PS2 into close-quarters only game? SERIOUSLY. HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO KILL PEOPLE FROM AFAR THAT CAN BOTH STRAFE AND BE HEALED??? It's really starting to make me lose my temper, I mean, people, you realise that the standing still mechanic was put in place to avoid stalemate situations at long range, don't you?

It's fun how it went all right for every idea offered here, but this shit is just going to break the game, and I'm saying this as a friggin' Medic vet, not a planetside vet.

*this shit - is a term used to describe a possibility of high-rate mobile healing.


AYE, and stop, idd, figuring out 1on1 balance. Steel argument saying "it can have a very slow healrate and very close range" is still invalid. Why? Because there's approx 666 people on each side and everyone can be a medic, 665 medics can heal 1 max and each other. Tell me about the "healrate" in this situation.
Making the effects not stack will be an even bigger idiocy, for multiple medics will only fulfill the role of one, the class will be rendered useless again.
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Shields.. these are a decent compromise between the console jockeys that want recharging health, and the glorious pc gaming master race that generally doesn't.

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Old 2012-06-06, 05:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #49
ringring
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Re: "Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi


Originally Posted by SpcFarlen View Post
At first i didnt like the idea. But for medic i actually really like the idea. By not throwing down a medpack a person cant just throw it down and get back to shooting. They have to take themselves out of the fight to heal someone. So it brings the risk reward scenario up. Is the risk of me not being able to shoot worth it now?

It makes healing a much more active role rather than a passive role. You can look at Bf3 where they throw down a pack and go straight to shooting. Besides that brief second animation, their healing didnt hinder their offensive capability it actually enhanced it.

So i see it as a good thing.
In principle it's a good thing. The PS1 way was better than PS2 as D2A said, namely if someone is recieving med aid or repair they have to standstill.

It didn't look right. (In all the good things I saw this was a wee bit of a disappointment.)
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Old 2012-06-06, 05:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #50
Kalbuth
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Re: "Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi


Am I the only one worrying about the effect of a repair beam on a MAX? Imagine a charging MAX supported on the move by engies using cover and their beam to reach the MAX and repair constantly.
As stated above, like for medic : is it stacking? what is the rate of repair? Effects could go very wrong, be it for heal beam or repair beam all the same.
I call that the TF2 medic train effect, where the only dominant tactic is a heavy supported by medic, making the whole game revolve around them.

And, having played medic in TF2, it ends up being boring pretty fast to run behind people to heal them while they do the shooting. You feel usefull, but at the expense of your own gameplay experience (you don't have to really aim, just follow some guy around. Ultra boring)
I largely prefer a combat medic setup where you support your comrade by additionnal fire and heal/revive them either during fight downtimes, or even under fire if it's getting hot.

Some medic system I quite liked was the Brink one (someone mentioned it above, or a very similar system), where you use a seringe on a guy, healing him over time. PS2 being slower paced then Brink, the seringe setup and animation could very well be slower in PS2 (like a 3 to 5 seconds setup time), and you need to touch your target to heal him.
For repair, distance repair I feel is too dangerous for gameplay, we should stick to contact repair, even requiring the MAX to stay without moving.

I really dislike all this "beam" thing

EDIT : ouch, it looks like I missed a complete page of this thread OK, all was said in the previous page. Inline with NewSith on this matter. Can be gamebreaking

Last edited by Kalbuth; 2012-06-06 at 06:01 AM.
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Old 2012-06-06, 08:53 AM   [Ignore Me] #51
Memeotis
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Healing beams, regenerating health and all sorts of controversy


Before I start my post, I want whoever reads this to keep in mind that just because a feature that is in another game is added to Planetside, does not mean that the feature will affect Planetside in the same way as it did the other game. For example, if prone was to be added to Planetside, the game would not devolve into CoD-camping. Why? KDR is not the focus of Planetside and killstreaks are not as important as they are in CoD.

I know this is probably redundant, seeing as I'm no longer speaking to console-players, but rather the PC master-race.

-----------------------------------------------------

I plan to play a medic, and from what I've heard from players who played the original planetside; playing a medic was a rather passive, defense-oriented and not a very diversified role. Players would have to stand still and you would have be up close and in contact with them, in order to be able to heal them. This sounds to me like the medic hardly had a chance to actively influence the gameplay, didn't really have too many tactical decisions to make and was really just a pitstop for other classes who needed health.

The role of the medic in TF2 (healing beam) is a very active one, but also very mindless. In order to be the best medic, all you had to do was heal constantly, unless you were only running around with only one other friendly player, in which case you were expected to alternate a bit between healing and shooting. A skilled medic was one who could keep the beam linked at all times, and who could dodge bullets. A medic-soldier/heavy combo was very powerful in this game, and is understandably something Planetside players would be worried about.

But Planetside is very different to TF2, and with regards to this particular issue, player health is a big factor. In TF2 players have a lot of health and are much harder to hit because the game is arcadey. In Planetside 2, a medic who thinks he can play like a TF2 medic will be killed within seconds. Another final feature to consider is that healing in PS2 is an ability, so similar to the cloak and the jump-pack, using it will drain ability-juice, which will regenerate when you don't. TF2 did not have this, medics in that game could heal indefinitely, this means that PS2 medics will have to think much more about who they heal.

I think the healing beam is a good idea, but of course the amount/rate at which it heals should not be too high. I think a good amount would be if you have two heavy assaults who go face to face, standing still and shooting each other, where one had a medic healing him throughout and one doesn't, the one who doesn't should die, but the one getting healed should only have 20% HP at the end. Very much marginal in straight-up engagements.

This way the medic will have a very active role healing the entire group, rather than making the front-soldier OP, like in TF2. I think it would also be a very nice addition if the healing tool had an alternate-fire, which would be a contact-, instantly-applied healing over time ability. This would be a convenient feature to have for healing soldiers who have been badly wounded, but are safe behind cover and does not need your direct attention. Or for situations where you are sprinting in between objective areas with a wounded squad, and you want to heal them one at a time in between sprints (assuming there is not unlimited sprinting). Instead of draining the bar continuously, this ability would instead take a chunk of that bar.

Reviving has already been confirmed, but I think a fitting alternative to the revive tool would be med-packs, similar to those in BF3. These would make sense for defenders of a base to use, since they already have a spawn-point nearby; making revives less important. This would basically make the medic role even more diversified, and would allow defenders to become slightly more rigid in static, indoor situations.

As for the engineer repair tool. This is probably the one that can be compared the most to the TF2 medic, since it's the only one (from what I understand) that can heal the MAX. I think a sufficient limitation on this tool would be to make it a contact-item, and thereby force the engineer to expose himself if he wants to mimic a medic/heavy combo from TF2.

And finally... regenerating health. And yes, it's health, not shield. I think the point of the shield is to reward the players who manage to get decisive kills without sustaining too much damage, which I totally agree with. If this was not in the game, players who play well (and without a medic) would get progressively worse. CoD mirrors Planetside's shield-mentality, just with health regeneration, which is okay for a mindless shooter I suppose, but would of course detract from a game like Planetside, since it would make the medic much less useful.

That said, I do believe there is room for health regeneration in Planetside 2, for the purpose of disincentivizing suicide. I want health regeneration for the player whose squad was obliterated by an intercepting force and is now running by himself to a new rendevouz. He knows it will take him 2 minutes to run there, 4 minutes if he commits suicide and joins the safety of his squad. He knows he can help his squad by getting there and doing some early recon-work, but feels that the risk is just too high because his health is so low. If he, on the other hand, knew that after 40-60 seconds a slow health regeneration would kick in, he would be much more inclined to not just kill himself. So in other words, this is not conventional health regeneration, since it will not affect moment to moment gameplay, it's designed in the assumption that if it ever kicks in, the next engagement will be entirely "fresh".
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Old 2012-06-06, 08:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #52
captainkapautz
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Re: Healing beams, regenerating health and all sorts of controversy


Do we really need ANOTHER thread about this?

I mean there is like literally a thread for each of your concerns, on the first page of the forum even.
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Old 2012-06-06, 08:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #53
CutterJohn
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Re: Healing beams, regenerating health and all sorts of controversy


Not a fan of the healing beam. Medics should be about after action cleanup, not active healing during a fight.
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Old 2012-06-06, 09:00 AM   [Ignore Me] #54
Dreamcast
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Re: Healing beams, regenerating health and all sorts of controversy


uhhhh dude u got it all wrong.


First of all their was no class in Planetside 1......


The Medics could be snipers, heavy assult,etc.......Alot People healed themselves when they got shot if they got the chance instantly.


Now people are crying about some slow as hell regen system....When in Planetside most players healed themselves super fast lol.

Planetside 2 enhanced the medic class in terms of teamwork compared to Planetside 1 where majority of players were medics.



The real reason why regen health is getting resistance..is because regen health system is related to COD and battlefield....and the Planetside veterans elitist don't want this.


Keep in mind most Planetside Elitist here healed themselves after every shot...I would bet.

Last edited by Dreamcast; 2012-06-06 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 2012-06-06, 09:02 AM   [Ignore Me] #55
kasiraghi
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Re: Healing beams, regenerating health and all sorts of controversy


PPl don't play PS for KDR?!
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Old 2012-06-06, 09:53 AM   [Ignore Me] #56
ParisTeta
Sergeant
 
Re: "Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi


I think there are some valid concerns about healing beams. There is no fun to have a medic all the time hiding around a corner, and heal from afar a attacking player, it allows no counter. Having the medic in the middle with "tanks" around is also bad gameplay (for planetside). BUT there is many way to counter such things, and i`m quite sure the PS Devs are aware of them, but remention them could be a good idea maybe someone brings something new? To be more constructive i try first.

1. Adjusting the Range Knob aka give them some minimal range for convinence but not much more the the splash radius of aoe weapon like grenade.

2. Make the beam interuptable, especially through EMP and Splash damage.

3. Combine 1+2 with a progressiv heal, less heal (15%) for the first 3 seconds then after 2 seconds more (45%) etc. Damage would reset it to the first state.

4. Tune healing as such, that you can`t counter heal headshots.

5. Allow active combat heals with big cooldown, for example a healing granade can only be used every 30+ sec

or

6. Add Nanite resistence to healed players, so they can`t have to much healing from range/aoe heal, if those are in game.

7. Give some weapon effects which reduce healing aka Nanite Suppression.


What ideas do you have to adjust the knob of this potential problem?
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Old 2012-06-06, 10:13 AM   [Ignore Me] #57
Bobby Shaftoe
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Re: Healing beams, regenerating health and all sorts of controversy


Originally Posted by Dreamcast View Post
The real reason why regen health is getting resistance..is because regen health system is related to COD and battlefield....and the Planetside veterans elitist don't want this.
No you idiot, the real reason is that in PS2 you don't even HAVE TO DO ANYTHING and you get back to 100% health. Yet you are so mad about someone running off to cover, stopping, equipping a med app then an eng tool and having to keep a constant eye out for threats since you are completely vulnerable doing so. Whilst you're cool with PS2, find some cover, have gun out, wait a little bit.

You really think your terribad sniping in PS2 is going to result in someone not just getting into cover and popping back out at 100% 20 seconds later?

I've been waiting to see how you'd justify something like this being in game and it is hilarious, the differences between PS1 'super soldiers' and your average PS2 'class' are falling away each day.

PS1 = People get 100%hp without teamwork (You rant/rage)
PS2 = People get 100%hp without teamwork (You say it's good because it's a modern fps mechanic)

I believe the term you're looking for is Hypocrite.
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Old 2012-06-06, 10:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #58
MrBloodworth
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Re: "Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi


This is supposed to be a Team based War game, not a session based shooter.
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Old 2012-06-06, 10:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #59
Anderz
Master Sergeant
 
Re: "Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi


What if health regen only ever got you back up to something like 75% health, rather than 100%?

That way medics still have value.
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Old 2012-06-06, 10:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #60
Coreldan
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Re: "Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi


I think that's a good idea and I would even suffice with 50% health max for the regen.

I wrote this to another thread:

I looked at the regen times in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Q5YLKbuda0o Around the 11:30 spot

I found the following:

Time till shield starts recharging after taking damage for the last time: 10s
Time for shield to regen full after regen starts: 5s
Time for health regen to start after last damage is taken: 25s (so around 10s after shield is full)
Health to regen fully after regen starts: 15s

Total time to go from "zomg I'm dead" to a pristine soldier: approximately 40s.

However, at the end of the "scene" when he regens his health up suddenly fast and with odd chunks, there is a player running near/almost behind him, you can see him in the minimap a bit later (sadly quality isnt enough to tell much, but thats a friendly moving blip on the map), so it could be a medic. But in the worst case scenario, it's still gonna take you 40s of not taking damage to be back into a pristine soldier.

I do not find this as a very bad thing. Taking someone out for 40s even if you don't manage to kill em ain't bad. While not a totally working analogy, but in the earlier world wars it was much more efficient to wound a soldier than to kill him. You wound a soldier and two healthy soldiers have to drag him out of there + resources spent on the wounded soldier outside the field. You kill a soldier and he is left there until the battle ends, a wooden coffin wont cost much

That said, I wouldnt mind even if it was slower. I don't like health regen, but nor do I like forced to run around with 1hp until I die (which happens cos the shootout will never be fair in a game with TTK this high unless both are full health, unlike with "realistic damage models") if there are no medics around doing their job. At least the person who got me into that condition renderered me useless for over half a minute when I have to hide and regenerate health so I won't instantly die.
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